Crew loss on sail shots while rig repairing.

[Sverne]

During idle chat whilst carebearing about the danish waters in the wee hours of the morning, my friend, @Faroeline, suggested an interesting idea. He pointed out that while you are rig repairing, realistically there would be crew climbing all throughout the rigging, cutting/tying ropes, holding on for dear life, etc.

 

I suggest that we implement crew damage/loss when taking fire to the sails during a rig repair. Chain shot/grape shot would be more effective than ball shot, obviously.

 

 

- @Assassin, @staun, Sverne, @Faroeline

[staun]

Would be realistic. So an Aye from me.

[Lovec1990]

21 minutes ago, Sverne said:

During idle chat whilst carebearing about the danish waters in the wee hours of the morning, my friend, @Faroeline, suggested an interesting idea. He pointed out that while you are rig repairing, realistically there would be crew climbing all throughout the rigging, cutting/tying ropes, holding on for dear life, etc.

 

I suggest that we implement crew damage/loss when taking fire to the sails during a rig repair. Chain shot/grape shot would be more effective than ball shot, obviously.

 

 

- @Assassin, @staun, Sverne, @Faroeline

but loss needs too be high losing 50% of crew repairing sails should be achived with 6 shots

Edited August 21, 2018 by Lovec1990

[Percival Merewether]

29 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

but loss needs too be high losing 50% of crew repairing sails should be achived with 6 shots

Let's not go overboard with crew losses here.

A few points I'd like to make:

• You shouldn't lose more men than you have put on repair duty + sailing.
• possibility of crew dmg should be added for any action that requires men in the rigging.
• You need better control of how many men you put in each position (gunnery/sailing/repairing).

These points should however not come in the way of fun, but rather add an extra layer of dept. The game is unrealistic as it is and I've given up advocating realism - let's just have fun playing it. Good suggestion @Sverne btw.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Percival Merewether
spelling

[Lovec1990]

9 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

Let's not go overboard with crew losses here.

A few points I'd like to make:

• You shouldn't lose more men than you have put on repair duty + sailing.
• possibility of crew dmg should be added for any action that requires men in the rigging.
• You need better control of how many men you put in each position (gunery/sailing/repairing).

These points should however not come in the way of fun, but rather add an extra layer of dept. The game is unrealistic as it is and I've given up advocating realism - let's just have fun playing it. Good suggestion @Sverne btw.

i agree and i did wrote 50% of crew repairing sails so 50% of crew on repairing plus they can be crew shocked so repairs stop and lets add penalty on repair speed if sails are set too 100%

[Sverne]

Credit to @Faroeline for the idea, I'm just the American with better English.

[JoeFried]

I am completely against it. After all, realistic battles take several hours. Cooling times and maintenance of the canals between 20 to 60 minutes. Sailing maneuvers also many minutes partly also an hour and more. During this phase repair work can be carried out without danger to the crew!

 

 

Ich bin voll dagegen. Schließlich dauern realistische Schlachten mehrere Stunden. Abkühlzeiten und Wartung der Kanonnen zwischen 20 bis 60 Minuten. Segelmanöver ebenfalls viele Minuten teils auch eine Stunde und mehr. Während dieser Phase können Reparaturarbeiten ohne Gefahr für die Besatzung durchgeführt werden!

Edited August 21, 2018 by JoeFried

[Sverne]

@JoeFried - most of the good battles I've participated in have lasted several hours, be it chasing a hunter that pissed of the wrong trader or clanmate, or screening at port battles in first rates. 

I'm sorry if your PvP experiences haven't been quite as long lasting or enjoyable. We are sailing God-ships that have countless advantages over historical real-life warships. Why not aim a little closer to realism?

It IS a sailing simulator, afterall.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Sverne
~game to simulator~

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The more simulation the better.

[JoeFried]

4 minutes ago, Sverne said:

Why not aim a little closer to realism?

@Sverne My explanation of the realist I justified and communicated to you above. This is reasonable. That's why I stay with my "NO"!

 

(Meine Erklärung zum Realistischem habe ich Dir oben begründet und mitgeteilt. Diese ist vernünftig. Deshalb bleibe ich bei meinem "NEIN"!)

[Percival Merewether]

1 hour ago, JoeFried said:

I am completely against it. After all, realistic battles take several hours. Cooling times and maintenance of the canals between 20 to 60 minutes. Sailing maneuvers also many minutes partly also an hour and more. During this phase repair work can be carried out without danger to the crew!

I think it's important to remember that repairs were carried out during this phase because it was safe to do so.

By adding this to the game it will encourage you to disengage for repairs instead of repairing in the middle of the fight - if you disengange, then you will have exactly the scenario you describe above. Also remember that not all battles at sea lasted for hours, just look at the HMS Shannon vs USS Chesapeake lasting only 15 minutes.

EDIT: Another important point to make since you're advocating realism: What is it that is being repaired in-game that would be done in real life? Repair in-game is considerably different from what you'd be capable of in real life during battle. Remember that when pulling the realism card.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

There's battles that ended in 1 broadside and battles that lasted for days ( including chase ).

We have the same in NA.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Even if a battle did last for hours whether, it was fleet or single ship, Captains would disengage to repair before re-engaging, if possible, so battles were not continuous by any means. Warships carried a very limited number of spars for repairs or jury rigging, it was a time consuming and dangerous job without someone hurling lumps of iron at you, Canvas, lines and rigging could be hoisted aloft or rove relatively quickly, but, a mast could not be shipped at sea, the ship had to be stable to do so, so it was beached, or it would be a port-side job, it could take a weeks to replace a mast especially as straight trunks were required, the wood had to worked, and, if it were not in port, it was not even seasoned. Any repairs would at best be temporary until a ship returned to port.

With Rigging repairs we are more fortunate, we can grow a full mast in minutes, complete with stays rigging and running lines, then return to battle as if nothing had occurred, That is not to say we should not have rigging repairs, personally I'd like to see such  repairs be more like jury rigging, it gives enough to make steerage way in the event of total dismasting, or add a little speed if  a single mast goes by the board. It may prove to be enough to get under cover of friendly fire and out of the battle from there, or not, but at least it is a chance, just as it was back in the day. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

While I like this as I think repairs are abused way to much in this game.  I also think you shouldn't be able to do sail repairs or any repairs while at full sails.  Lets make "BATTLESAILS" even more used for what they are ment to be used for, WHILE YOUR IN BATTLE.  Make it so no repairs can be done while at full sails and can only be activated in Battle Sails.  Maybe have it while your repairing your are locked in that sail setting until it's done, that way you will not have the guys running at 15 knts repairing while using his super stern laser guns to keep a few chasers off all the time.  If you where to try to repair sails at full sails you would damage something including crew or very much loose speed cause you have to take the wind force off that sail to do the repair.   This will make you choose your repairs more wisely and will go along with the limited chain we now have in game.

[Old Crusty]

The magic of repairs is definitely broken and something needs to be done. Rigging repairs while at full sails. No way. Perhaps if sailors are replacing some canvas then that canvas comes down for 10-15 seconds in game? The ship will initially slow down and then gain speed with the new canvas.

[Percival Merewether]

8 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

The magic of repairs is definitely broken and something needs to be done. Rigging repairs while at full sails. No way. Perhaps if sailors are replacing some canvas then that canvas comes down for 10-15 seconds in game? The ship will initially slow down and then gain speed with the new canvas.

While I really like your idea, I must insist that fights start at much greater distances - I'm tired of the "surprise chainshots".

Your suggestion is really great and I can get behind it 100% - but with the current transition between OW and battle it will be a wet dream for gankers. There is just no way a ship should be able to sneak up 50 meters behind you with chain loaded ready to cripple your rigging without the crew of the your own ship realizing it (likely hours before).

All battles should start outside chain range.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

What was the regulation distance for warning shots ? If any.

[Bluetooth]

5 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

While I really like your idea, I must insist that fights start at much greater distances - I'm tired of the "surprise chainshots".

Your suggestion is really great and I can get behind it 100% - but with the current transition between OW and battle it will be a wet dream for gankers. There is just no way a ship should be able to sneak up 50 meters behind you with chain loaded ready to cripple your rigging without the crew of the your own ship realizing it (likely hours before).

All battles should start outside chain range.

Are you talking about ow tagging and the prepared perk??

Tagging and tagging avoidance e is a skill you should learn.

And the prepared perk is a skill you can pick.

Or do you just want to nerf skills that you don't use??

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Crow

[Percival Merewether]

23 minutes ago, Crow said:

Are you talking about ow tagging and the prepared perk??

 

Both in combination makes for some really odd starts. Your opening position in relation to the enemy is currently more important than your position in relation to the wind - I think that's a shame.

I'm not complaining about prepared but I realise that starting at a greater distance will render it useless,. Your position in OW rarely represents your position in battle, and very often two hunters will turn at eachother in OW making it a complete lottery who starts where.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Percival Merewether