So you tell devs something they do not want to hear... and they close the topic!

[Havelock]

36 minutes ago, admin said:

1. they do not come with mods and upgrades and skill books - you still have to mod them, and you only can acquire those mods/upgrades by playing
2. imported ships can be received by other means (notes for these ships do drop in epic event loot from time to time)
3. there are much stronger ships in game that are crafted (eg. any line ship)
4. they have alternatives that you can build or capture

 

Excuse me, this is total bullshit. It has to be said. Le Requin is the best 6th Rate ship, thats not a matter of opinion but its ingame stats. Lets go through it again:

1. All ships need to be modded, whats the point? It does not relate to a ships strength if it comes with mods or not. Even better, Pirate Rig Refits are totally broken here as Requin is the ONLY ship which only benefits from this mod, effectively giving it a 30% (!!!) speed bonus. All other alternatives give 3% at max, making this upgrade 10x more effective.
2. Can you list other examples of obtaining them? Notes have a VERY small drop chance and are just there so you can say "they are obtainable". How many days do you have to farm epic events to get a Requin?
3. This point is invalid in the shallow area. Only ship which is stronger is the Hercules, which is an imported ship aswell. Last time i checked, lineships could not enter shallow PBs, did anything change there?
4. There is no 80BR alternative which stands a chance vs the Requin. Requin has about same HP, thickness, mast values as all others but beats them in broadsight weight, crew, speed, bowsprit advantage and an insane boarding advantage.

 

Seriously, i cant stand one more post of you defending the Requin or Hercules not to be p2w in their current form. This comes from a long term fan who has always supported you also among the players i play with. I have no problem if you make mistakes during development, but acting like the introduction of these vessels went totally fine feels like being slapped in the face. I hope this post gives you another insight.

Havelock

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Havelock said:

 

Excuse me, this is total bullshit. It has to be said. Le Requin is the best 6th Rate ship, thats not a matter of opinion but its ingame stats. Lets go through it again:

1. All ships need to be modded, whats the point? It does not relate to a ships strength if it comes with mods or not. Even better, Pirate Rig Refits are totally broken here as Requin is the ONLY ship which only benefits from this mod, effectively giving it a 30% (!!!) speed bonus. All other alternatives give 3% at max, making this upgrade 10x more effective.
2. Can you list other examples of obtaining them? Notes have a VERY small drop chance and are just there so you can say "they are obtainable". How many days do you have to farm epic events to get a Requin?
3. This point is invalid in the shallow area. Only ship which is stronger is the Hercules, which is an imported ship aswell. Last time i checked, lineships could not enter shallow PBs, did anything change there?
4. There is no 80BR alternative which stands a chance vs the Requin. Requin has about same HP, thickness, mast values as all others but beats them in broadsight weight, crew, speed, bowsprit advantage and an insane boarding advantage.

 

Seriously, i cant stand one more post of you defending the Requin or Hercules not to be p2w in their current form. This comes from a long term fan who has always supported you also among the players i play with. I have no problem if you make mistakes during development, but acting like the introduction of these vessels went totally fine feels like being slapped in the face. I hope this post gives you another insight.

Havelock

Yeah i kinda wonder the same why use Herc witch was known to be OP in shallow waters but saved with being rare and uncraftable and requin witch showed during tested that needs serious balancing and bug fixes yet they were made DLC test ships too me it looks devs wanted quick money boost not caring about releasing DLC test ships propetly and asure they would be better accepted

[Lovec1990]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Admin, I need those new beautiful ships!

me too but i want them too be balanced with crafted ones so we can enjoy them without creating another uproar on forum

[Thonys]

"So you tell devs something they do not want to hear... and they close the topic!"

the admin has reacted, so close topic, please

he heard you all!

MOD @Sir Hethwill the RedDuke

Edited August 15, 2018 by Thonys

[admin]

51 minutes ago, Havelock said:

 

Seriously, i cant stand one more post of you defending the Requin or Hercules not to be p2w in their current form. This comes from a long term fan who has always supported you also among the players i play with. I have no problem if you make mistakes during development, but acting like the introduction of these vessels went totally fine feels like being slapped in the face.

You defend your opinions, i defend my opinions. I don't see the need to get emotional statements like "slap in the face" and such into the normal discussions. Hearing other opinions which could also be wrong, or could evolve - is the purpose of the forum

 

[qw569😳]

Why do not implement craftable version of Le Requin with the same stats as DLC Le Requin?

Thus, there will be two options. Save money and spend time or save time and spend money.

Edited August 15, 2018 by qw569

[AeRoTR]

1 hour ago, Lovec1990 said:

meybe but only in shallow waters, but still ship issue not DLC ship concept issue

Yes it is a ship issue combined with overpowered rig refits. That ship should stay in the North African coast, or a much weaker Xebec version should be in the game similiar to other 6th rates.

[Bluetooth]

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

All ships need to be modded, whats the point? It does not relate to a ships strength if it comes with mods or not. Even better, Pirate Rig Refits are totally broken here as Requin is the ONLY ship which only benefits from this mod, effectively giving it a 30% (!!!) speed bonus. All other alternatives give 3% at max, making this upgrade 10x more effective.

Incorrect. Pirate rig gives performance to all ships it is fitted to, however Le Sexy is better suited to it. 30% is elite pirate which is not common.

I suppose you fit Spanish refit on your square rigger and are happy with its super boost. Its Ok to have speed 15 Bellona's running everyone down but not a ship which can escape from it??

 

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

This point is invalid in the shallow area. Only ship which is stronger is the Hercules, which is an imported ship aswell. Last time i checked, lineships could not enter shallow PBs, did anything change there?

Your point is invalid. Admin did not mention the shallows??

 

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

bowsprit advantage and an insane boarding advantage.

Bowsprit is not sail bearing like square rigger. And the boarding advantage is ONLY IF YOU FIT BOARDING MODS which means you are a one shot pony.

Most well fitted shallow ships (light and fast not heavy and slow fits) can run away from Requin now that its down wind speed has been nerfed.

AND THIS POST WAS ABOUT THE HERC IN BATTLE !

I am sure these ships will be further balanced and tweaked but don't get so emotional, calm down. 

Lower the lights, sit down and .........In with the good air.....out with the bad air.....in with the good air......out with......

Edited August 15, 2018 by Crow
spell checker

[Thonys]

19 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Why do not implement craftable version of Le Requin with the same stats as DLC Le Requin?

Thus, there will be two options. Save money and spend time or save time and spend money.

well, we can all put ideas on this topic and many more topics about it.

 

OT:

topics are still open for debate

Edited August 15, 2018 by Thonys

[admin]

1 minute ago, AeRoTR said:

Yes it is a ship issue combined with overpowered rig refits. That ship should stay in the North African coast, or a much weaker Xebec version should be in the game similiar to other 6th rates.

The mechanical design of the rig is simple - you have more staysails you lose power in squares. If you have more squares (add them by rig refit) you lose power in staysails. Less flow less wing effect in sails. 

Thats why some ships are more receptive to certain rig refits (due to their sail plan composition). Xebec does not have any squares - staysail/lateen bonuses shine on this vessel - but it is hard for us to argue with the mechanics.

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

• All ships need to be modded, whats the point? It does not relate to a ships strength if it comes with mods or not. Even better, Pirate Rig Refits are totally broken here as Requin is the ONLY ship which only benefits from this mod, effectively giving it a 30% (!!!) speed bonus. All other alternatives give 3% at max, making this upgrade 10x more effective.

Mods are boken. Not only on the le requin but on all ships. Le requin just shows it in obvious way. That you dont call elite spanish rig broken on square riggers might be due that you think "yeah it has 30% less staysails force" But fact is it boosts any ship speed up like p rig does with requin.  These ship are made for downwind for upwind there are other ships that will always outperform squareriggers (looking at schooners) . So saying but upwind performance is worse it has a negative effect is just a lie to yourself. Spanish rig would have an negative effect for square riggers if it would boost 180° performance but cripple 135° performance. Thats an negative effect.

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

 

• Can you list other examples of obtaining them? Notes have a VERY small drop chance and are just there so you can say "they are obtainable". How many days do you have to farm epic events to get a Requin.

What do you want. Make DLC ships AI on ow and open to player capture would that be easy enough? Why they have to be easy to get?

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

 

• This point is invalid in the shallow area. Only ship which is stronger is the Hercules, which is an imported ship aswell. Last time i checked, lineships could not enter shallow PBs, did anything change there?

Thats POV. You look at guns and crew and when I look at sailing capability I see any schooner can do what the le requin does and any shallow square rigger can do what the herc does.

a lynx gets easily beaten by prince. Nerf guns and crew on prince .....

1 hour ago, Havelock said:

1. There is no 80BR alternative which stands a chance vs the Requin. Requin has about same HP, thickness, mast values as all others but beats them in broadsight weight, crew, speed, bowsprit advantage and an insane boarding advantage.

 

Have you checked crew dmg on requin? It got fixed during the last hotfixes you can now grape her not only by aiming at the guns - any deck dmg kills crew. She even loss massive crew by broadside trades. The only reason why you dont hear many success stories about sinking her is that a square rigger cant chase her upwind even beaten to structure. Thats aint a ship fault as you may have read its a feature of the ship (steam dlc page). Its the same when your bellona runs straight downwind and outplays a schooner. Pls change squareriggers so they cant run away from schooners.....

Edited August 15, 2018 by z4ys

[AeRoTR]

Now let's say it has very good sailing profile, and nobody can catch it. Let us not put any rig refits on it. No ship can catch it, not even close, just check the sailing profile. This is P2W.

Let's check broad side power with cannons and carronades. No ship can match it. This is P2W.

Let's check crew numbers, do we need to check ? It just bypasses DD perk. This is P2W.

On the attached picture from Felix Map Tools, you can check the stats. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by AeRoTR
Sailing profile against competitors added.

[admin]

14 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

 

Let's check broad side power with cannons and carronades. No ship can match it. This is P2W.

Its a linguistics, semantics issue i think. Just like @Crow pointed out above. 
All 4th rates and above destroy it with relative ease. First rates outmatch it by several factors. Some 5th rates have no problems (trincomalee, endymion)
You say that NO SHIP can match it - its not true. You mean one thing - (no low level ship can match it in its low level rank), but say another thing: generalize it to ALL ships including ships with 140 guns.

You should not provide blanket carpet statements that ALL ships cannot fight them.
You should say what you mean: 6th rates are unbalanced, or Nassau patrol has pay 2 win. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Thread to say goodbye, everyone reads, we all wave fair winds. No need to keep it open but the posts are all there.

A forum can get messy with discussion everywhere and really hard to keep up. Keeping everything tidy helps everone.

Redundant Topics will be closed. I see no problem here.

There are developer's topic specific for Le Requin and Hercules feedback and discussion.

Fair winds.

 

[staun]

A way to get around the P2W would make the DLC crafteble. Yes I know you still god a advantage, by not need to find the ressources, and can make it in any ports, do you can save a tow.  Still think they would have more ore less the same numbers of ppl that buy a dlc.

Edited August 15, 2018 by staun

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

is NOT pay to win ! Get over it.

You can discuss the merits of having the ship note using the "rare" woods, but honestly, i mean honestly, do you think that is an issue !?!?!

You have to sail out, you have to find targets, you have to engage.

Exactly the same as I personally do with any other ship including the Privateer for far too long with absolutely similar results.

Same as the ekranoplane Bellona fans do.

Sorry, mechanics are blind to human passions.

 

[Lovec1990]

2 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Thread to say goodbye, everyone reads, we all wave fair winds. No need to keep it open but the posts are all there.

A forum can get messy with discussion everywhere and really hard to keep up. Keeping everything tidy helps everone.

Redundant Topics will be closed. I see no problem here.

There are developer's topic specific for Le Requin and Hercules feedback and discussion.

Fair winds.

 

Becouse we need dedicated pinned topic on imported ships and their impact on game currently we only have topic for each ship, but why not topic about effects of imported ships plus ideas too make next imported ships better included into enconomy and battles in game and also find a solution so both sides are happy those who like DLC ships and those who just want to play with crafted ships only?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

 

[admin]

1 minute ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

is NOT pay to win ! Get over it.

 

Players point balance issues, we only disagree that these balance issues are p2w. Such blanket statements confuse newcomers and general public. Commenters should say what they mean and should not exaggerate as newcomers can assume that NO SHIP (like average first rate) cannot win against average hercules. 

last balancing has reduced the gap and over next month we will apply more changes based on data
some 5th rates should be on par or better
some 6th rates should be on par or better

the BR issue can be solved too.
 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Players point balance issues, we only disagree that these balance issues are p2w. Such blanket statements confuse newcomers and general public. Commenters should say what they mean and should not exaggerate as newcomers can assume that NO SHIP (like average first rate) cannot win against average hercules. 

last balancing has reduced the gap and over next month we will apply more changes based on data
some 5th rates should be on par or better
some 6th rates should be on par or better

the BR issue can be solved too.
 

Yes, we should drop the P2W nonsense.  But I think we all agree on the balance issue.  This was a whiney post from someone who is unhappy with another's skill.  Git Gud!  Can we close it now?

 

[Havelock]

1 hour ago, admin said:

You defend your opinions, i defend my opinions. I don't see the need to get emotional statements like "slap in the face" and such into the normal discussions. Hearing other opinions which could also be wrong, or could evolve - is the purpose of the forum

 

As i said, the pure statistics of Requin are numerical numbers which are not open to debate. Its clearly visible to everyone that Requin in superior in these numbers and this has nothing to do with opinions. As of that, you stating that the Requin is balanced is like telling Newton that gravity is just his "opinion".

[John Hood]

5 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

You got the ship for marks, he bought access to his ship, 1 per day. As far as I'm concerned you're benefiting from nearly the same system of free ships.
Do you think that if you were in a trinc or a belle poule you would've faired any better? Money doesn't buy skill.

Or maybe the herc is just that good, idk. I've only fought a handful and they were just as much so to say the least.

No i have to work hard to get the 25 marks back he just gets a new one... even better for him he dont like what he gets he can even sell it for gold every day and roll a new one... so he can chance wood everything ever day for paying once... i am stuck with what I get...

[Cmdr RideZ]

2 hours ago, admin said:

The reason you see a lot of them is just convenience. They are good quality + very convenient. Very experienced captain will sink an average player in almost any ship. With time and practice you will be able to fight off enemies in any ship especially if you have an escort and know how to use it. 

I would like to add one pretty big reason here. The DLC ships save you lot of time. Crafting takes tons of time and you can choose any wood type, get a new roll to get "very fast" every day, have multiple DLC ships in fleet to remove the worst per day for new roll. Sink one ship per day and roll after. Very practical, probably fun to play when can simply skip this rather heavy economy.

[Cmdr RideZ]

34 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

These screen shots look really nice, possible to share it?

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Havelock said:

 

As i said, the pure statistics of Requin are numerical numbers which are not open to debate. Its clearly visible to everyone that Requin in superior in these numbers and this has nothing to do with opinions. As of that, you stating that the Requin is balanced is like telling Newton that gravity is just his "opinion".

Again - lets remove emotions from the conversation. At certain point Newton's gravity was only his opinion and some scientists considered it a slap on the face. 

Le Requin could be unbalanced and more data will confirm or deny this theory. But saying that Le Requin is pay to win because NO SHIP IN GAME can match it is false and confuses unaware players who come to this forum.