Hercules & Requin my balancing sugestion

[o Barão]

Sorry for my poor english, is not my native language.

 

I bought the Requin. I really like the looks . I am still having some problems with the manual sails on this ship when turning and using chain ( it seems very hard to aim up on this ship ),  but i have to agree that is to OP for his class. About Hercules i already fought them sometimes to understand what is the problem with this ship.

 

Lets start with the easy . The Hercules.

- Why the Hercules , a frigate or you can call her a corvette have shallow water sailing when all the others corvettes and frigates are deep water?  Remove this ability.

- The BR is to low. Hercules have a broadside 192pd/528. Cerberus in comparison have a 117pd/416pd and have a BR 140. Change the BR to 150.

- The speed is to much ( 13.26 knots ). Nerf a little.

 

This changes are needed to remove the Hercules from the Bahamas shallow waters ( doesn't make any sense to be the only frigate that can sail there. ) And to bring balance to port battles.

 

Now with the difficult. The Requin. 

Notes: The crew number and shallow waters makes sense from a historical point of view. So i will focus on other aspects to balance the ship to others 6th rates. Also i included two buffs to make the ship more balanced in comparison with the others 6th rates.

-  Change the 32pd carronade for 24 pd carronades. ( it is difficult to find information about le Requin , similar to Requin the spanish xebec El Gamo used 2 24pd carronades.) I think is important for a 6th rate that haves an huge crew to not have the more powerful guns in the same class. However if someone gives an evidence about Requin guns i will change my opinion.

- Nerf the acceleration.

- Nerf the side armor thickness from 50 to 47cm.

- Nerf the side armor HP from 2300 to 2000.

- Nerf the bow thickness from 30 to 27cm.

- Nerf the bow HP from 575 to 525.

- Nerf the stern thickness 20 to 18cm.

- Nerf the stern HP from 230 to 210.

- Nerf the crew from 250 to 245 . Source: https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=15543 ( historical values )

- Buff the turn rate to something around  5.00   ( doesn't make any sense this ship to have a bad turn rate in comparison with the others 6th rate)

- Buff the 2pd cannons dmg from 5 to 10. ( the dmg from the 2pd cannons atm is almost useless. They only have one purpose. To kill crew  from the stern.)

 

This changes are needed to bring the Requin to a same level to others 6th rates. Yes the Requin will still have a huge crew in comparison with the others 6th rates but will not have the 32 pd carronades anymore ) .

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Just fix the mods that make hem OP.

 

Namely the pirate and elite pirate rig (xebec)

...and the spanish and elite spanish rig (pretty much breaks every fast square rigged ship ingame pushing it over max speed)

Edited July 31, 2018 by Johnny Rotten

[Old Crusty]

I personally don’t care that they are OP. They are just the Monsters that you have to watch for. My problem is with the BR making port battles unbalanced. Please please please increase the BR on both ships 

[Teutonic]

From my point of view - make the Requin a 5th rate and you fix 80% of what the problem is with the ship.

the fact that you can stack crew space trim, with 6-7th rate hammocks mod, AND extra hammocks book to get nearly 400 (if not more with special random trims).

lower thickness by 5

rebalance pirate and spanish rig mods.

 

Requin can no longer enter shallow water PBs
Requin no longer has an INSANE crew addition
 

The Requin is supposed to be a nice raider and it's sailing profile is nice. but it shouldn't be the monster it currently is due to the Crew madness.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Just fix the mods that make hem OP.

 

Namely the pirate and elite pirate rig (xebec)

...and the spanish and elite spanish rig (pretty much breaks every fast square rigged ship ingame pushing it over max speed)

This does not  fix them . Requin will still have 250 crew with 32pd carronades. And Hercules will still be the only frigate to sail in the Bahamas with a stupid BR to ruin port battles.

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Crew is still an issue with le requin, making it a rageboarding ship.

Also his sails and masts hit boxes must be checked.

Almost impossible to catch, it has no free counterpart in the game.

More important that its current hp or firepower it is their sailing abilities compared to other ships of the same rate.

 

Crew can't be changed much. Historical numbers says it had a 245 crew. Now the 32 pd carronades can be changed to 24pd ( in fact 18 pd carronades could be a better choice for balacing) this would help a lot to balance the Requin to others 6th rates. I also made different sugestions in armor thickness and hp to compare the Requin with others 6th rates. The speed would only give her an advantage sailing upwind in comparison with the others 6th rates with the exception of Prince de Neuftchatel ( the advantage is still for the Requin but would be minimal ) But if we look from the other side of the coin, all 6th rates can run from a Requin going downwind. The major problem  is the cannons not the speed.

38 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

I personally don’t care that they are OP. They are just the Monsters that you have to watch for. My problem is with the BR making port battles unbalanced. Please please please increase the BR on both ships 

I agree with you about the Hercules. My suggestions brings the Requin to the same level to the others 6th rates.But talking about the Hercules the major problem she is the only frigate with shallow waters sailing. This needs to go.

[o Barão]

4 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

From my point of view - make the Requin a 5th rate and you fix 80% of what the problem is with the ship.

the fact that you can stack crew space trim, with 6-7th rate hammocks mod, AND extra hammocks book to get nearly 400 (if not more with special random trims).

lower thickness by 5

rebalance pirate and spanish rig mods.

 

Requin can no longer enter shallow water PBs
Requin no longer has an INSANE crew addition
 

The Requin is supposed to be a nice raider and it's sailing profile is nice. but it shouldn't be the monster it currently is due to the Crew madness.

Historical she is a 6th rate and she is supposed to be a shallow water , this is not the problem. the problem is the other stats ( 32 pd carronades, armor hp and thickness ) the ship haves. I agree that there are some rig mods that completely makes the ship OP but for the Requin the problem is the 32pd carronades. It is too much for a ship that already haves 250 crew.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

By the RN rating, she would be classified as a 26 gun/9pdr frigate ( forget numeral rates ).

If we use the 1807 numeral, then she would be a cruiser 5th rate.

But given the rating system works with 3 things - 1st rig, 2nd tonnage, 3rd number of guns - the rig is hardly considered, but for gameplay reasons, yeah, she is a 5th and capable of working shallow waters.

Same as the Hercules. Please refer to her campaign in the liberation wars in the south america.