Trinc thickness & Bouncability

[Liq]

Been testing the trinc lately, found one odd thing though

Trincomalee seems to not bounce as much as it "should", sometimes when passing a ship at a hard angle and get shot, I feel like most of the shots should bounce, though they still penetrate. This happens at pretty ridiculous impact angles. And I'm not using fir. Teak-WO, thickness of about 56.

Now my question towards trinc experts, do you feel the same, and do you feel like it *should* bounce more? Feels odd seeing it bounce way less than other similar frigates.

@HachiRoku

[Aster]

I have noticed some of the more square ships at extreme angles seem to get penned more then they should. I think it may have to do with shooting the corner of the bow/stern.

[HachiRoku]

Yeah the trinco is a bit weird. One very very odd thing about her is that teak teak is better than teak wo. Ask @Havelock @vazco and @Palatinose about my teak teak cartha trinco in duels. I take just as much damage and don't get reload shocked as often. Keep in mind they are also cartha.  Vazcos teak wo cartha trinco was reload shocked 3 - 0 vs my T/T in last duel. VERY ODD.... I'm faster, turn better and it feels way lighter overall. Yet damage wise I often feel like I bounce and tank as much. Trincos will be hammered by by Endymions in a fight of equal captains. 0 chance in a brawl.

Test a Teak Teak trinco and tell me if you feel a difference and keep in mind she is the MOST IMPORTANT ship in the game to use carthagena on in my experience.

Also, go sail teak bermuda trincos. Damage wise its suprising how good they are compared to teak wo. I use teak teak ONLY because of crew damage on teak berm. 

To be fair She is actually the best ship in the game because of this. She doesn't bounce to much even with cartha. If all ships were like that game play would be WAY better!!! This is one of the reasons I prefer trinco duels over everything else. Balance wise the trinco is probably one of the best balanced ships in the game. I never brought this up because the trinco needs a weak spot and that is one. If it were not for this she would dominate endys too. In my oppinion trinco is fine and most other ships need thickness nerfs but since the community likes farming ai so much it will never happen. 

Here is a screenshot of my dueling one that I use. 5th mod is lightweight ropes and blocks. People in all duels lately cannot believe its teak teak. I run longs and carros. 

For open sea I use this build and as a dueler it is just as good. I prefer the elite brit rig but some people think demasting is just the only way to win duels. I'm good at it but its the cheapest way to win a duel. I am not fond of repairs mods but dont really know what else to put on the 4/5. Maybe a penning mod since most duels are decided way before repairs and it rarely comes down to who can repair more. 

[Havelock]

I cant relate to @Liq or @HachiRoku either. I dont see a difference to other heavy 5th rates. And your "feeling" of T/T have less reload shocks cant be right man, the stats clearly say it has 2% less HP that T/WO. Youre probably aiming better or something. Their stats are nearly the same, imo 5% thickness is worth the 1,25% speed though.

[HachiRoku]

28 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I cant relate to @Liq or @HachiRoku either. I dont see a difference to other heavy 5th rates. And your "feeling" of T/T have less reload shocks cant be right man, the stats clearly say it has 2% less HP that T/WO. Youre probably aiming better or something. Their stats are nearly the same, imo 5% thickness is worth the 1,25% speed though.

i don't care about stats. Vazco and I tested it and the practical evidence in that battle prove otherwise. 

[Liq]

I guess the Trinc is more of a BF109, BnZ, compared to surps / belle poules being more of A6M2 Zeroes Turnfighters. Currently I'm making the mistake of trying to use the trinc as a turn"fighter". Doesn't work out well at the moment, but will learn over time

[Palatinose]

10 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

i don't care about stats. Vazco and I tested it and the practical evidence in that battle prove otherwise. 

How did you test? I know that Havelock is right about the stats and I know that i was really pissed losing, because you were just better.

 

[William Death]

While I prefer the Endymion for OW PvP (can't beat the ability of 24pdrs to demast anything that floats [assuming the target isn't running mast mods]), I have sailed the Trincomalee a lot, especially back when we had the duel room, it was my preferred dueling frigate. Turn rate, when maxed out for turning is excellent. I also feel the turn acceleration is higher on Trincomalee than on Endymion, but I haven't found any spreadsheets or tools to confirm that. If anyone knows of a source for that information (turn acceleration, not turn rate or speed acceleration), I'd be grateful for the link.

I've got this Teak/WO one and it feels like it bounces properly. Very tanky, but slow. Not for OW stuff, obviously. Fun in duels though. At least, the way I duel  Spinny, bouncy, tanky...handles nicely. The extra weight and slower deceleration of teak/wo seems to carry her through tacks nicely.

One thing to keep in mind is Trincomalee's hull shape: specifically the curve from bow to stern that is quite pronounced. If you are angling to bounce shots, I've found its important to make sure you're not angling in a way that puts the rear 1/3 of Trinc into a good shooting angle for the enemy. Trincomalee has this curvature pronounced more so than most other ships, although Santisima, Bellona, Pavel, Wapen, Ingermanland, and a few others have also a fairly decent fore-and-aft curve to their sides as well. This can be a great asset if you are careful (a skilled Santisima skipper can bounce shots as well as the ugly L'Ocean), or it can hurt you a lot too.

 

Regarding Hachi's theory about Teak/Teak being better and getting reload shocked less...I'll believe it when I see it LOL. When we "dueled" I was in my Teak/WO failfit speed Endy because I'd been out hunting. I think he was in that same Teak/Teak Trinc he posted earlier in this thread. Even with no thickness, HP, reload, etc mods (even had trim speed working against my turn rate), we were damaging each other roughly equally; I didn't reload shock him though, and I don't recall him reload shocking me either. Mostly we were fighting for the wind and each other's weak sides. It came down to who could get the last broadside into who (both of us were nearly into structure on one side each). Hachi was able to spin around faster than I could (my 60% sails couldn't spin me too well ) and got the broadside into me and then we called it. Was a good, fun fight. Perhaps I could have made the outcome more favorable to me had I been in a ship build more conducive to dueling. We'll have to duel again some time.

*now I need to build a dueling Endymion because why not?*

Edited July 31, 2018 by William Death
punctuation

[vazco]

2 hours ago, Palatinose said:

How did you test? I know that Havelock is right about the stats and I know that i was really pissed losing, because you were just better.

After a fight I shot one full broadside point-blank into Hachi's ship, 90 degrees, no reload shock. I got 3 reload shocks during a fight, I think 2 on full armour.

Hachi was better in that fight - he won with first salvo  Still, right now I switched to T/T as well and it feels better. I think faster angling trumps thickness. Depends also on the mods you use.

 

ps. there are nice Teak/Teak Trincs of my build in Gustavia if you want to try them out  Built with reload-shock-proofness in mind. No-return policy applies  

 

[HachiRoku]

10 hours ago, William Death said:

While I prefer the Endymion for OW PvP (can't beat the ability of 24pdrs to demast anything that floats [assuming the target isn't running mast mods]), I have sailed the Trincomalee a lot, especially back when we had the duel room, it was my preferred dueling frigate. Turn rate, when maxed out for turning is excellent. I also feel the turn acceleration is higher on Trincomalee than on Endymion, but I haven't found any spreadsheets or tools to confirm that. If anyone knows of a source for that information (turn acceleration, not turn rate or speed acceleration), I'd be grateful for the link.

I've got this Teak/WO one and it feels like it bounces properly. Very tanky, but slow. Not for OW stuff, obviously. Fun in duels though. At least, the way I duel  Spinny, bouncy, tanky...handles nicely. The extra weight and slower deceleration of teak/wo seems to carry her through tacks nicely.

You know 18s will demast that with charged right? I can't remember who I dueled with Kiritimati but he claimed I was the first person to ever demast him. Maybe it was @vazco?? Not certain. 

Anyway. Dump that trash mod and replace with french. The speed of that ship is no where near competitive. Those 2 knots you have less than my ship is the difference between me using 2 sides to your 1. Even if you are winning damage wise the slower ship cannot dictate a battle. If it's 0.5-1 knot slower its OK but 11 knots - 25% sail is 9 knots=yummy for me to position myself and use hit and run tactics. I would like to fight that ship though. Anyway. You dueled the bottom ship. I have a few of the 3-5 vf and f ones. 

On topic of the Endy. 

18s because with charge you can take 2nd rate masts, Kiritimati trincs and endys, have way more crew(important on endy) and I always say if the 18s are not enough you are way out of the endys league. I have no Endy since @Otto Kohl sank my 4/5 very fast one =( I never even sailed her once and Toto sank her on the first time the ship left port. 

I'm home this weekend. Tp your trinco to lt. I want to see that ship in practice. My steam name is the same and I'm the only hachiroku from Dublin Ireland. 

 

[HachiRoku]

11 hours ago, Liq said:

I guess the Trinc is more of a BF109, BnZ, compared to surps / belle poules being more of A6M2 Zeroes Turnfighters. Currently I'm making the mistake of trying to use the trinc as a turn"fighter". Doesn't work out well at the moment, but will learn over time

Trincs are best used for hit and run tactics. Take wind, Position, hit them and repeat. Very difficult to attack into the wind with her. I think you might lack the patience for the ship since you are used to lighter ships. In time you will get used to her. Once you do you will love her. Just don't expect to win as many 1v5s like with your belle. Well since chain metas 1v5 are pretty much impossible anyway I believe. Vs monkeys does not count 😛 trust me when I say you need Carthagena on it. It makes you 30% better. 

[William Death]

5 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

You know 18s will demast that with charged right? I can't remember who I dueled with Kiritimati but he claimed I was the first person to ever demast him. Maybe it was @vazco?? Not certain. 

Anyway. Dump that trash mod and replace with french. The speed of that ship is no where near competitive. Those 2 knots you have less than my ship is the difference between me using 2 sides to your 1. Even if you are winning damage wise the slower ship cannot dictate a battle. If it's 0.5-1 knot slower its OK but 11 knots - 25% sail is 9 knots=yummy for me to position myself and use hit and run tactics. I would like to fight that ship though. Anyway. You dueled the bottom ship. I have a few of the 3-5 vf and f ones. 

On topic of the Endy. 

18s because with charge you can take 2nd rate masts, Kiritimati trincs and endys, have way more crew(important on endy) and I always say if the 18s are not enough you are way out of the endys league. I have no Endy since @Otto Kohl sank my 4/5 very fast one =( I never even sailed her once and Toto sank her on the first time the ship left port. 

I'm home this weekend. Tp your trinco to lt. I want to see that ship in practice. My steam name is the same and I'm the only hachiroku from Dublin Ireland. 

Yeah the Kiritimati doesn't make my masts invincible, but it comes darn close when fighting other frigates, especially those sailed by the average noob (1-2 lazy broadsides into my masts, if it doesn't fall, they try something different). Persistence is rewarded in the demasting game . 116.16 mast thickness means double charged 18s *just* can pen my lower sections at 250m.  Its not a good OW hunting mod, sure, but for dueling, I quite like it. The +10% turn rate and 30% mast HP is nice too  

I'm not particularly concerned with speed in duels. I've tried builds like yours and builds like mine, I like and use both, but I often prefer the slower tank over the more nimble fighter. Undeniably, both are effective, in the right hands. To each his own though, I suppose.

100% agree with you about Cartagena being pretty much necessary to get the most out of Trinco. I've just crafted one blue 4/5 that'll get Carta on it before I take it out.

 

Regarding my use of the Endy: I always run 24s because they only require one more crew per gun (so 28 crew more on Endy, no big deal), the pen is so much better, and I almost never find myself waiting on the reload in the kind of fighting I do (I'm normally waiting to get a good shot or for the enemy to waste his broadside while I'm angled). Also, while charged 18s might demast a 2nd rate, 24s will do it from further away, and can take down first rate masts too. One fight I was in comes to mind: my Endy and a buddy in Surprise vs a (rather poorly sailed) Victory. The Surprise stern raked and graped while I focused the Victory's mainmast. Once it fell, we went in and traded him back and forth in boarding a couple times. Fun fight. Couldn't have done it that way without those 24s. I suppose we could have tried side-hugging tactics, but this was pre-first rate HP nerf, so he had lots of HP on that LO/WO Victory, and Determined Defender wasn't a perk at that time so we had to be more cautious when getting close to him. More than one way to skin a cat, as they say (also ewww). I've tried 18s on the Endy, and each time I try it, I regret it. I'll stick with the 24s and accept the slightly longer reload time.

 

I'll have my dueling Trinc ready and we'll hopefully get a chance to duel soon. I've added you on Steam (same name in game) 

[HachiRoku]

10 minutes ago, William Death said:

Yeah the Kiritimati doesn't make my masts invincible, but it comes darn close when fighting other frigates, especially those sailed by the average noob (1-2 lazy broadsides into my masts, if it doesn't fall, they try something different). Persistence is rewarded in the demasting game . 116.16 mast thickness means double charged 18s *just* can pen my lower sections at 250m.  Its not a good OW hunting mod, sure, but for dueling, I quite like it. The +10% turn rate and 30% mast HP is nice too  

I'm not particularly concerned with speed in duels. I've tried builds like yours and builds like mine, I like and use both, but I often prefer the slower tank over the more nimble fighter. Undeniably, both are effective, in the right hands. To each his own though, I suppose.

100% agree with you about Cartagena being pretty much necessary to get the most out of Trinco. I've just crafted one blue 4/5 that'll get Carta on it before I take it out.

 

Regarding my use of the Endy: I always run 24s because they only require one more crew per gun (so 28 crew more on Endy, no big deal), the pen is so much better, and I almost never find myself waiting on the reload in the kind of fighting I do (I'm normally waiting to get a good shot or for the enemy to waste his broadside while I'm angled). Also, while charged 18s might demast a 2nd rate, 24s will do it from further away, and can take down first rate masts too. One fight I was in comes to mind: my Endy and a buddy in Surprise vs a (rather poorly sailed) Victory. The Surprise stern raked and graped while I focused the Victory's mainmast. Once it fell, we went in and traded him back and forth in boarding a couple times. Fun fight. Couldn't have done it that way without those 24s. I suppose we could have tried side-hugging tactics, but this was pre-first rate HP nerf, so he had lots of HP on that LO/WO Victory, and Determined Defender wasn't a perk at that time so we had to be more cautious when getting close to him. More than one way to skin a cat, as they say (also ewww). I've tried 18s on the Endy, and each time I try it, I regret it. I'll stick with the 24s and accept the slightly longer reload time.

 

I'll have my dueling Trinc ready and we'll hopefully get a chance to duel soon. I've added you on Steam (same name in game) 

Cheers can't wait for some biff