Question: Is a PCs in-game statistics worth a look?

[Norfolk nChance]

Question: Is a PCs in-game statistics worth a look?

All Captains and @admin and staff...

Do you think the ability to look at your PCs in game statistics and complete NA Life History would help retain New Players and Junkie alike?

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/554819715-NorfolknChance_UK/!/pvp/overview/

 

this example, I’ve used in another thread. Play around with it, drill down into the details.

Now apply it to NA-OW [PvP Caribbean] & [PvE Enviroment] PCs. So, PORTs Clans PBs Kills etc. This old data could be put to some really good uses or ideas...

How deep should it go? Is it too expensive to implement old API data?

Original thread was this.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/26423-idea-norfolk-compares-apples-to-oranges-to-avoid-a-lemon/

 

Or Historical data is just that, His-Story... just not worth it

thanks for reading

Norfolk.

 

[SirAlatriste]

A lot of people wants always to see their KDA, their percentage of victory or, maybe here, the number os ships they bounced or sinked. A more information of themselves will for sure increase the retainess, and the possibility of seeing the information of others with more toplist even more... And for sure the history of every single ship aswell.

Edited July 24, 2018 by SirAlatriste

[Ortac]

I'd be interested to know how many of the ships I have crafted, and sold, are still floating.

[vazco]

It's a critical data if you want to use EBM. It's a very effective and objective way of defining parameters which your product - in this case Naval Action - has to have in order for it's users - in this case us - to be happy (in example it measures software development, but could and should be used for the product itself as well).

I don't think NA uses this. I think GL probably didn't even define their KVA's. I think they should, but probably they won't  

 

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Or Historical data is just that, His-Story... just not worth it

Just your data is His-Story and not worth it - it's just a nice feature. Only with a correct model of EBM, data of all users finally gains a huge value.

Eg. it shouldn't be the case that on forum we shout about nerfing Hercules or La Requin. A system should automatically tell developers whether a ship is OP or not. This way they also listen to data from the whole community, not only from the loudest people.

Edited July 24, 2018 by vazco

[vazco]

@admin it's probably something worth reading

[Palatinose]

If we had that, we could right away go for pvp ranks right? Mesa likes!

[Norfolk nChance]

@vazco

 

https://scrumorg-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/drupal/2016-09/EBMgt_Guide_v3.pdf

 

thank you for this. As you can tell software is not my business, but I like the idea of using outside links to drive in-game content and be able (Dev) to confidently log the results. This as well as customer feedback.

If integrated at the start or early on then the general maintenance and up keep costs are relatively low? This in comparison to staff, server and day to day running costs?

 

Norfolk.

 

[Guest]

sid meiers pirates have a fancy looking leaderboard, where it says ships sunk/captured etc.. etc.. Couldnt find it while writing here

Edited July 24, 2018 by Guest

[vazco]

Btw, since my anonymous remark about EBM will be most likely ignored due to lack of reference, I guess a remark from Paradox could be useful as well (they call it telemetry, I don't know why):

"What I would rather talk about is how gathering data from players is useful to us. Because it is. Super useful! Without telemetry we would be resorting to guesses and risk only the most vocal minorities to be heard. For example, telemetry data is one of the major things we look at for deciding what nations to develop focus trees on. We get data on how popular difference choices are for focuses, letting us spot balance issues or unpopular paths that could use some love and care. We can spot if new out of sync errors are introduced in multiplayer in graphs and get crash reports automatically uploaded to help us fix problems easily. All this, combined with a scoopful of forum reading, is what helps us steer this ship, so thanks for helping :)"

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-fuel.1107753/

 

 

[Norfolk nChance]

This would solve/show the DLC ship debate I'd guess as well. If they're Overpowered in numbers and in game kill shows etc.

[Kawazz]

10 hours ago, vazco said:

@admin it's probably something worth reading

Ugh don't do that to them, most of that is a waste of their time. 

@admin http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

[Norfolk nChance]

7 minutes ago, koiz said:

Ugh don't do that to them, most of that is a waste of their time. 

@admin http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

 player and all players statistics is a waste of time with NA-OW?

Using it for client data monitoring... game just too small?

[vazco]

1 hour ago, koiz said:

Ugh don't do that to them, most of that is a waste of their time. 

@admin http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

It's actually one of the most commonly practiced mistakes - to treat agile or Scrum as an excuse to run as a headless chicken, not having a goal in sight, yet already working.

Good agile is used for development process. It's not used to define business goals or to make sure they're correct. That's what methods like EBM are for my friend  It's especially important in R&D projects like multiplayer games, where you can't predict some factors, but you need to react to them. 

Professional projects plan their goals at least partly based on data and use Scrum to only iteratively improve development process and as one of the tools to lower TTM.

[Norfolk nChance]

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/community/fame-game/

Out of Game content started this month... with this Months Hall of Fame. Do we like this type of thing, maybe prizes given etc. Or just a list no fuss needed?

Different types like PvP kills, PvE kills maybe. Then ship types used etc.

Some of it is just way too OTT though...

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/go-navy-rules/

 

but nice Russian eye candy, bragging rights on either would be a bonus...

It can get annoying some of the stuff, NA-OW needs more class with its presentation in my opinion.

 

Norfolk.

[Kawazz]

On 7/24/2018 at 7:59 PM, vazco said:

It's actually one of the most commonly practiced mistakes - to treat agile or Scrum as an excuse to run as a headless chicken, not having a goal in sight, yet already working.

Good agile is used for development process. It's not used to define business goals or to make sure they're correct. That's what methods like EBM are for my friend  It's especially important in R&D projects like multiplayer games, where you can't predict some factors, but you need to react to them. 

Professional projects plan their goals at least partly based on data and use Scrum to only iteratively improve development process and as one of the tools to lower TTM.

Its also a common excuse,  scum and agile wont solve their problems. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by koiz

[vazco]

2 minutes ago, koiz said:

Its also a common excuse,  scum and agile wont solve their problems.

That's what I posted originally  Link that I sent has scrum in it only coincidentally  

I guess we have similar views then.

[Kawazz]

On 7/24/2018 at 4:59 PM, Norfolk nChance said:

 player and all players statistics is a waste of time with NA-OW?

Using it for client data monitoring... game just too small?

Money. You need someone to not only implement processes but you need people to actually analyze. Lets remember naval action isnt some big project nor is the "team" behind it.

[Norfolk nChance]

makes sense, a critical mass needed to make it worthwhile

@koiz or @vazco

I’m just a simple a banker, can you recommend any easy handholding sites or books to look at?

Am interested in costing implementation etc. I use analysts all the time and systems engineers with assets pricing...

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Norfolk nChance

[Arvenski]

Do I want to see detailed player statistics in the game? No. I haven't liked those ever since I played World of Tanks. The WoT players made such a big deal out of stats: for example, people talking about "padding stats" by sealclubbing newer players, or the ubiquitous "ur stats suck and so do you n00b"-type messages in chat. Anyone heard of XVM? It is, or was, (I haven't paid attention in ages) a mod for WoT that allowed you to see the winrates of everyone in a match, and would calculate the chances of your team winning based on that. It wasn't unheard of for people to drive their tanks into a lake at the start of a match and kill themselves because XVM had told them their team might lose. Then they'd either whine in chat about how terrible everyone else was, or quit back to the garage. To me, people seemed to think of stats like they might think of the length of their... gentlemanly anatomy. (😜) Everyone wanted theirs to be bigger than the next guy's. I thought it made for a pretty toxic playerbase, and I'd rather not see that happen here. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Arvenski

[vazco]

6 hours ago, koiz said:

Money. You need someone to not only implement processes but you need people to actually analyze. Lets remember naval action isnt some big project nor is the "team" behind it.

When you count how much time went into development of features just to remove them, how many features are "almost ready, but not yet tuned" and how many critical issues are not handled yet, it's clear that in case of NA spending some time to set KVA's and to implement some measurements 2 years ago would result in a much better game at this point. (of course it's more complex, but in general boils down to this)

I think that the current approach is one of the reasons why NA is not a big project  

Edited July 26, 2018 by vazco

[Norfolk nChance]

BINGO

[Norfolk nChance]

@Arvenski

 

Thanks for the reply.

If you don’t mind was just going to explain expand on some statistics in [WoWs] just for the thread to give ideas?

I completely agree with you, seeing Stats for Stats sake is not what the idea I’m looking for. However, I want there to be an Out of Game persistent link that gives all PCs both [PvP] & [PvE] an historical backstory that builds up over time. This includes Combat, Trading, Crafting, Exploration and Missions. This making an overview of all assets with the Caribbean.

NA-OW having an Out of Game integrated link providing Backstory and context that drives in-game content. It helps Sell (promote) the game and lift retention rates. It needs to have a high-quality Age of Sail feel too it. Not just white pages of numbers...

 @koiz

  and  @vazco

Is this possible or practical and at what cost?

 

PvP

Regarding PvP the stats display shouldn’t be used to judge unless you agree to a public display.  Sites like WTR don’t help and encourage padding stats, with seal clubbing the noobs NA-OW wants to avoid this as well. We as PCs having a measure or benchmark helps with player retention rates.

Monthly high scores give bragging rights like the one shown above. This would expand out to clan and clan warfare also. Through open world.

 

PvP Learning & Growing

Certain numbers in conjunction with each other can help highlight weaknesses in gameplay. More BATTLES is the key first off. Using clan mates or other players can help to spot points of interest. Below is a link to [WoWs] front page of a very good player with 14k battles called Shagulon just to compare with my 1k only.

NorfolknChance_UK

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/554819715-NorfolknChance_UK/!/pvp/overview/

Shagulon

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/527424028-Shagulon/!/pvp/overview/

Just quickly scroll down and compare both players on the Statistics Tab. Victories on their own don’t add much value S/NnC 60%/47% yes his is better. Let’s add surviving the battle 86%/67%, Average ships destroyed 1.19/0.43. This just tells us He lives longer giving him more time to deal more damage.

Spotting Norfolk’s main weakness...

Overtime though it does highlight faults with depth the PC is making. Just using Norfolk now go to the Warships Tab. Notice I earn a on average a third more XP using Aircraft Carriers, now look how many battles done only 70. And this is where stats can be mis-read...

Look at the bar chart total Number of Battles by Warship Tier. My average tier size is 5.0.  Can you see what I’ve being doing wrong?

Tier I	17
Tier II	69
Tier III	115
Tier IV	155
Tier V	282
Tier VI	213
Tier VII	66
Tier VIII	97
Tier IX	0
Tier X	0

 

Battles fought from T-I to T-IV 356. Tier-V 282. Battles fought T-VI to T-X 376

With my small amount of 1,000 BATTLES, 60% at T-VI and above. I’m playing in too large a Tier Battle with too big a ship probably for my skill set at the moment.

This is a Naval Action Newbie move as well. How many posts have you read about a player ganked in his Bellona started the game a few months ago...?

 

Useful PvP-NA Stats we’d need...

This I’d defer to @jodgi and his thoughts. What would be the minimum amount? Also, it must tie into the build side of things with Wood frames and Planks.

 

And it could on. I just wanted to see the mechanics and if we could apply it profitably.

 

Norfolk.

 

 

[Kawazz]

12 hours ago, vazco said:

When you count how much time went into development of features just to remove them, how many features are "almost ready, but not yet tuned" and how many critical issues are not handled yet, it's clear that in case of NA spending some time to set KVA's and to implement some measurements 2 years ago would result in a much better game at this point. (of course it's more complex, but in general boils down to this)

I think that the current approach is one of the reasons why NA is not a big project  

You do realize they do not have a dedicated team?

Not one thing would change the outcome of this project simply because of the way it was started. 

[Kawazz]

11 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

@Arvenski

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

If you don’t mind was just going to explain expand on some statistics in [WoWs] just for the thread to give ideas?

 

I completely agree with you, seeing Stats for Stats sake is not what the idea I’m looking for. However, I want there to be an Out of Game persistent link that gives all PCs both [PvP] & [PvE] an historical backstory that builds up over time. This includes Combat, Trading, Crafting, Exploration and Missions. This making an overview of all assets with the Caribbean.

 

NA-OW having an Out of Game integrated link providing Backstory and context that drives in-game content. It helps Sell (promote) the game and lift retention rates. It needs to have a high-quality Age of Sail feel too it. Not just white pages of numbers...

 

 

 @koiz

  and  @vazco

Is this possible or practical and at what cost?

 

 

 

PvP

 

Regarding PvP the stats display shouldn’t be used to judge unless you agree to a public display.  Sites like WTR don’t help and encourage padding stats, with seal clubbing the noobs NA-OW wants to avoid this as well. We as PCs having a measure or benchmark helps with player retention rates.

 

Monthly high scores give bragging rights like the one shown above. This would expand out to clan and clan warfare also. Through open world.

 

 

 

PvP Learning & Growing

 

Certain numbers in conjunction with each other can help highlight weaknesses in gameplay. More BATTLES is the key first off. Using clan mates or other players can help to spot points of interest. Below is a link to [WoWs] front page of a very good player with 14k battles called Shagulon just to compare with my 1k only.

 

NorfolknChance_UK

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/554819715-NorfolknChance_UK/!/pvp/overview/

 

Shagulon

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/527424028-Shagulon/!/pvp/overview/

 

Just quickly scroll down and compare both players on the Statistics Tab. Victories on their own don’t add much value S/NnC 60%/47% yes his is better. Let’s add surviving the battle 86%/67%, Average ships destroyed 1.19/0.43. This just tells us He lives longer giving him more time to deal more damage.

 

Spotting Norfolk’s main weakness...

 

Overtime though it does highlight faults with depth the PC is making. Just using Norfolk now go to the Warships Tab. Notice I earn a on average a third more XP using Aircraft Carriers, now look how many battles done only 70. And this is where stats can be mis-read...

 

Look at the bar chart total Number of Battles by Warship Tier. My average tier size is 5.0.  Can you see what I’ve being doing wrong?

 

Tier I	17
Tier II	69
Tier III	115
Tier IV	155
Tier V	282
Tier VI	213
Tier VII	66
Tier VIII	97
Tier IX	0
Tier X	0

 

 

Battles fought from T-I to T-IV 356. Tier-V 282. Battles fought T-VI to T-X 376

 

With my small amount of 1,000 BATTLES, 60% at T-VI and above. I’m playing in too large a Tier Battle with too big a ship probably for my skill set at the moment.

 

This is a Naval Action Newbie move as well. How many posts have you read about a player ganked in his Bellona started the game a few months ago...?

 

 

 

Useful PvP-NA Stats we’d need...

 

This I’d defer to @jodgi and his thoughts. What would be the minimum amount? Also, it must tie into the build side of things with Wood frames and Planks.

 

 

 

And it could on. I just wanted to see the mechanics and if we could apply it profitably.

 

 

 

Norfolk.

 

 

 

 

 

We asked for an api with live data and didn't even get it... good luck.

Some of us cache data...

https://nicktestxyz.com/na_cache/

 

[vazco]

42 minutes ago, koiz said:

You do realize they do not have a dedicated team?

Not one thing would change the outcome of this project simply because of the way it was started. 

This game was bought by 100-200k users according to stats, for probably approx. 30 EUR on average. Counting safely - with Steam costs and without DLC's, it's around 2 mil of EUR of income. It's more than enough to hire someone to actually care for goals of the game. It's more than worth the investment

 

I'm convinced that with a different approach at the start it would be fairly simple to increase sales quite drastically. It's very easy to say this now, after seeing how it all went  It's quite simple to draw from this a prediction for the future.