3 circle system in PB = The kiting is back

[Batman]

Just imagine when the attacke will bring 25 Requins to a PB - the seas will be filled with tears, yet from a game mechanic pov nothing was done wrong or abused.

[Licinio Chiavari]

21 minutes ago, Batman said:

Just imagine when the attacke will bring 25 Requins to a PB - the seas will be filled with tears, yet from a game mechanic pov nothing was done wrong or abused.

One of game developers "thumbrule" is: any system will be always abused.

The trick is making the abuse really difficult and be ready to change mechanics as needed if too abused.

PS: truly hypocritical part is reading complains from people (rightfully I'd add) abusing the system daily by years (mods stacking, metaships, timers, kiting+infinite repairs, demasting, port timers... choose which ones more) but complaining when they end up at the receiving end of the abuse.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
PS

[Licinio Chiavari]

8 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

This happens everytime we have unbalanced ships in the game.

Happened the same with the wasa, everyone and their bother were sailing them. The worst problem with le requin is that there is one of the hardest ship to kill due to sailing profile.

As soon as a good compromise is reached in base stats, we will enjoy PBs again.

Wise words. Coupled with needed time for all captains to learn how to counter the meta of the moment.

Still, about DeepPort PBs I would prefer by far to ban ALL smaller ships (I'd say even all 5th rates) to make them (again) Ship of the Line melees.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

Fixed amount.

No matter the ship sunk, it is 40pt gain for the group who sank them and a 40pt loss for the side that lost the ship (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).

Don't get me lying on this but I thought it was 75 for none SOL's (and towers) and 150 for SOL's and Forts.   Than again they could of changed it and I just never noticed it.  The point is your suppose to get more points by sinking ships faster than by just sitting in the circles.

[Christendom]

56 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

This happens everytime we have unbalanced ships in the game.

Happened the same with the wasa, everyone and their bother were sailing them. The worst problem with le requin is that there is one of the hardest ship to kill due to sailing profile.

As soon as a good compromise is reached in base stats, we will enjoy PBs again.

Wasas while OP, still had to fight to win PBs.  You didn't bring wasas for their ease in kiting.  The current DLC meta in deep battles is to avoid fighting and contest (aka kite around) circles.  The only counter to the current meta is to bring more DLC ships.   Wasas were countered by bringing heavier ships.  

We showed up for a deep water PB.  We weren't aware it was actually a shallow one.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Christendom

[Dibbler (Retired)]

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

But we can also see a fair amount of Hercules in PBs so it must be a problem with their stats too, not only the kiting ability.

 Yep have the herc dlc,  and something isn't right in my humble opinion.  

BR to low as with Req also shot deflection/damage sustained from a big broadside seems to low but could be down to small ship size i guess and bad choice of fire options (range lock etc.).

[Old Crusty]

After reading all of this the problem is very very easy to see and fix. Every ship in the game needs to have a BR that is equal to its strength in battle. 

Giving all 6th rate ships a BR of 80 regardless of their actual strength in combat has destroyed the port battle system.

assigning all ships a BR on a competitive scale to accurately reflect their strength in battle should be the primary concern of the game designers at this point.

No ship, no matter it’s stats, is OP as long as their BR matches their capabilities. 

[Batman]

5 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

One of game developers "thumbrule" is: any system will be always abused.

 

Is it really abusing tho when a nation sends 25 Requins into a 2600BR port because by game meachnics Requins are allowed to enter?

Annoying, definately, but still - technically, you wouldn't do anything wrong.

[Licinio Chiavari]

25 minutes ago, Batman said:

Is it really abusing tho when a nation sends 25 Requins into a 2600BR port because by game meachnics Requins are allowed to enter?

Annoying, definately, but still - technically, you wouldn't do anything wrong.

If using ( @Christendom and @Privateer posts) 4 Requins and 4 Hercules called complains...

I agree that there's nothing bad, still it's an abuse not good for the sake of the game. So a correction (to get back Deep PB for SoLs brawl) can be advisable.

[Christendom]

Group with the most DLC ships wins.  This was a deep water PB mind you.  After last night however, it feels like justice.  

@admin are these the type of dynamic deep water PBs you wanted?

[Beeekonda]

#MakePortBattlesDLCFree

[Teutonic]

What utter nonsense 🙄

We are starting to get to the "Wasa balance" level. fuck DLCs dude

[--Privateer--]

Currently if a team has 3 bellonas in an enemy circle and the opposing team has 3 requins at the upwind edge of the circle, the bellonas are not able to capture the circle. That is a problem.

Similarly if a team controls a circle, lets say they have multiple line ships in the circle, but the opposing team parks a single requin at the up wind edge of the circle, the controlling team will not accrue any points. This is also a problem.

The first problem would be fixed if a circle was controlled by the side with most BR in the circle instead of most ships.

I'm not sure how to fix the second problem.

[Licinio Chiavari]

27 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

Currently if a team has 3 bellonas in an enemy circle and the opposing team has 3 requins at the upwind edge of the circle, the bellonas are not able to capture the circle. That is a problem.

Similarly if a team controls a circle, lets say they have multiple line ships in the circle, but the opposing team parks a single requin at the up wind edge of the circle, the controlling team will not accrue any points. This is also a problem.

The first problem would be fixed if a circle was controlled by the side with most BR in the circle instead of most ships.

I'm not sure how to fix the second problem.

Correct. IT IS an issue... we risk ending up with only Requin+Hercules in deep PB. And it's not intended.

Solution? I already said: for Deep PB set a minimum BR

And hotfix, eventually mortar brigs to be allowed in any case to enter.

If Hercules can enter shallow water... but NOT shallow PB is programming wise possible

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

Group with the most DLC ships wins.  This was a deep water PB mind you.  After last night however, it feels like justice.  

@admin are these the type of dynamic deep water PBs you wanted?

Demi-justice.

We at least engaged your main fleet.

France Fleet pushed the light ships meta in PB to the limit... and worked.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 hours ago, Christendom said:

Group with the most DLC ships wins.  This was a deep water PB mind you.  After last night however, it feels like justice.  

@admin are these the type of dynamic deep water PBs you wanted?

By the twitch I was watching last weekend they did the same at Cayo Bisc.  The Cabo Carn UWS fleet was there old normal set up but that battle was uncontested cause lake of numbers on US side.  If this the norm than I don’t want to do PB any more and I love the small ship big fights but they shouldn’t be all small ships in deep water PB’s.  BR need to be fixed soon and that ship should be a 5th rate just as the Herc is.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Point control by BR should be a thing.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, dark lord rediii said:

since contested circles generate no points it wouldnt help

Er... if you have 600 BR and the enemy only 300BR... means you will be raising control at half speed as would be 600 BR versus 0BR

Or... does it work some other way ?

[admin]

16 hours ago, Christendom said:

Group with the most DLC ships wins.  This was a deep water PB mind you.  After last night however, it feels like justice.  

@admin are these the type of dynamic deep water PBs you wanted?

Players pick the best options for them (sometimes the best option is to not play).
We will tune BRs based on the battle performance this august patch with 1-2 ships.
We will see if the things change

There is concern that they wont - and the issue might have more to do with convenience. 
These screens remind me the times when 3rd rates could be captured and all port battles were full of captured 3rd rates, despite the fact there were better alternatives  -generating a lot of comments here on the forums. We fixed it then but not sure if it was a good idea to fix as we dont know how many players lost desire to go to port battles at all by our removal of capture of 3rd rates. 

[Old Crusty]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

We will tune BRs based on the battle performance this august patch with 1-2 ships.
We will see if the things change

This will help if ships cost in port battles reflects actual battle performance.

August is almost over, just a few days left.

[Sir Texas Sir]

50 minutes ago, admin said:

Players pick the best options for them (sometimes the best option is to not play).
We will tune BRs based on the battle performance this august patch with 1-2 ships.
We will see if the things change

There is concern that they wont - and the issue might have more to do with convenience. 
These screens remind me the times when 3rd rates could be captured and all port battles were full of captured 3rd rates, despite the fact there were better alternatives  -generating a lot of comments here on the forums. We fixed it then but not sure if it was a good idea to fix as we dont know how many players lost desire to go to port battles at all by our removal of capture of 3rd rates. 

Requin not only needs higher BR with the Herc, but it needs to be a 5th rate to stop the abuse of crew stacking, it can still be done but it will get the 4/5th rate mods/knowledge not the light ships.  Please try these two fix for now the BR and rate change and lets test that.   I think a lot of folks have mention around the 140-150 range would be about right.

 

PS you know you only have 4 more days in August....;)

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Players pick the best options for them (sometimes the best option is to not play).
We will tune BRs based on the battle performance this august patch with 1-2 ships.
We will see if the things change

There is concern that they wont - and the issue might have more to do with convenience. 
These screens remind me the times when 3rd rates could be captured and all port battles were full of captured 3rd rates, despite the fact there were better alternatives  -generating a lot of comments here on the forums. We fixed it then but not sure if it was a good idea to fix as we dont know how many players lost desire to go to port battles at all by our removal of capture of 3rd rates. 

I don't seem to recall 10+ princes in deep water PBs.  This is a problem exclusive to DLC ships.  They've ruined shallow and now deep water PBs.  

A simple fix would be no DLC ships in port battles ever.  I feel this correction would balance the battles out, save the developers work in having to heavily balance shallow water ships relative to DLC ships AND more importantly, it fixes the ethical dilemma of having P2W ships in conquest battles.  Right now to win shallow water port battles you have to bring requins.  If you don't shell out the 15-20 dollars you are unable to flat out compete in bahamas port battles.  This is not good.

A more elaborate suggestion one would be to remove shallow water ships with the exception of mortar brings from all deep water battles.  Like it used to be for the past couple years.  I"m not sure why shallow water ships were allowed to enter deeps, but the removal of the restriction has let to far less dynamic and entertaining port battles since.  It was a poor choice.  

The longer this takes to get fixed the more players are leaving the game over this issue.  The le requin/herc in port battles should of been resolved 2 months ago.

[Lovec1990]

3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I don't seem to recall 10+ princes in deep water PBs.  This is a problem exclusive to DLC ships.  They've ruined shallow and now deep water PBs.  

A simple fix would be no DLC ships in port battles ever.  I feel this correction would balance the battles out, save the developers work in having to heavily balance shallow water ships relative to DLC ships AND more importantly, it fixes the ethical dilemma of having P2W ships in conquest battles.  Right now to win shallow water port battles you have to bring requins.  If you don't shell out the 15-20 dollars you are unable to flat out compete in bahamas port battles.  This is not good.

A more elaborate suggestion one would be to remove shallow water ships with the exception of mortar brings from all deep water battles.  Like it used to be for the past couple years.  I"m not sure why shallow water ships were allowed to enter deeps, but the removal of the restriction has let to far less dynamic and entertaining port battles since.  It was a poor choice.  

The longer this takes to get fixed the more players are leaving the game over this issue.  The le requin/herc in port battles should of been resolved 2 months ago.

No  if DLC ship is balanced against crafted it should be able to join PB 

[Tiedemann]

On 7/12/2018 at 12:32 AM, Tiedemann said:

SOLUTION
Solution is pretty clear imo, this point blocking with lower BR in the circle must end! Entire reason for 3 circles was to force defender to stay and defend their port. And this was not an issue in the beginning of the 3 circle system.. So we need the older version of the 3 circle system back! The team with highest BR in the circle should capture it and as long as they have the highest BR in the circle or the circle is unchallenged it should generate points. Only way to block point generation from a circle should be by capturing it. This is simple and efficient because it forces teams into decisive battles in and around these circles.. 

Le Requins in Shallow water pbs
As long as the Le Requin can enter shallow water port battles, I will try my best to avoid them.

Maybe I should have had this at the top of the OP, in sted of the bottom.. 🙄  

[Raf Van Boom]

The circle system does not encourage fighting, perhaps that's the issue.