Taxes for stockpiling

[z4ys]

Suggestion:

Introduce taxes for stockpiling in the warehouses.

 

Details:

• all player warehouses and clan warehouses will have to pay taxes on each used slot every maintenance cycle.
• If player cant effort to pay the taxes local goverment will size the goods till missed fee + additional charge is payed
  • sized good penatly payment increases each day up to a maximum of xx.
• A clanwarehouse at a port that the clan owned has no tax cost.

 

Pros:

• Money drains
• reduces stockpiling by players
• "meaningful eco?" + pressure rvr

Cons:

• Can be bypassed by using ship cargo slots to reduce taxes
• players have to pay taxes (oh no)

 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by z4ys

[seanjo]

Nah!

[vazco]

I don't see any advantage of this. Stockpiling is good for eco and RvR. 

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, vazco said:

I don't see any advantage of this. Stockpiling is good for eco and RvR. 

why is that good? Some players have so much stuff they never have to do any eco again. It even make RvR meaningless because why should someone attack a port when he has 100000000000000000 copper ignots. Its actually the opposit.

Edited July 8, 2018 by z4ys

[Batman]

10 minutes ago, vazco said:

I don't see any advantage of this. Stockpiling is good for eco and RvR. 

What's good about hoarding 100 million gold and 50.000 teak, 50.000 white oak ect?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Batman said:

What's good about hoarding 100 million gold and 50.000 teak, 50.000 white oak ect?

Good for them. It's not their fault the economy is broken.

[Christendom]

What would the end game goal of this be?  What would it improve?

[Liq]

whats next, tax for sailing in a certain area? sea (road) tolls?

[Greysteak]

Just now, Liq said:

whats next, tax for sailing in a certain area? sea (road) tolls?

Yes.  Well, not a tax but bribe payments each time a trader docks at an enemy port.

Also, cause why not:  Dock fees and building maintenance.  

[z4ys]

16 minutes ago, Christendom said:

What would the end game goal of this be?  What would it improve?

Improve RvR. by applying pressure to capture ports. Losing access to certain resource would matter. Not like now were people can just ignore the fact of the lost port because they have a pile that will last for a rl year. Would force people out of their holes.

Edited July 8, 2018 by z4ys

[vazco]

1 hour ago, Batman said:

What's good about hoarding 100 million gold and 50.000 teak, 50.000 white oak ect?

I have 51 first rates, resources to build 50 more, probably 80 cartagena tars, 100 copper platings and even more other upgrades. Probably 900 millions worth of goods including PvP marks. I don't see why it should be bad, I got those resources just like anyone else could. I want to dispose them like I want to. 

Being wealthy doesn't prevent people from participating in RvR or economy. Blocking or taxing it won't work, there are always walk-arounds. 

If you want people to do RvR, make it fun and remove obstacles. Don't force people to do it. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by vazco

[Fenris]

7 minutes ago, vazco said:

I have 51 first rates, resources to build 50 more, probably 80 cartagena tars, 100 copper platings and even more other upgrades. Probably 900 millions worth of goods including PvP marks. I don't see why it should be bad, I got those resources just like anyone else could. I want to dispose them like I want to. 

Being wealthy doesn't prevent people from participating in RvR or economy. Blocking or taxing it won't work, there are always walk-arounds. 

If you want people to do RvR, make it fun and remove obstacles. Don't force people to do it. 

Hoarding and stockpiling are two different things in my opinion, although they sound similar.

Having huge amount of materials and resources, and not being able to use or sell them properly, is just a symptom of a broken "economy" in NA, an "economy" that does not exist.

[Christendom]

53 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Improve RvR. by applying pressure to capture ports. Losing access to certain resource would matter. Not like now were people can just ignore the fact of the lost port because they have a pile that will last for a rl year. Would force people out of their holes.

Only way to improve RVR is to make ports matter.  People would capture more of them if they didn't have to PVE to sustain them

[vazco]

8 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Hoarding and stockpiling are two different things in my opinion, although they sound similar.

Having huge amount of materials and resources, and not being able to use or sell them properly, is just a symptom of a broken "economy" in NA, an "economy" that does not exist.

In my case it's a symptom of supply and demand working well  I got most of my wealth by selling players what they need, gathering it from places where it was plenty. I didn't use exploits. 

In an economy based on supply and demand those that understand those mechanisms will always gain wealth. That doesn't mean economy is broken, it's an opposite. 

It would be hard to implement a capitalistic economy in which I would be poor. I don't see why it's a problem, unless you want for noone to be rich - in this case economy should be removed from NA. It's the only way "for everyone to be equal". 

[vazco]

27 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Having huge amount of materials and resources, and not being able to use or sell them properly

Btw, telling me I can't use my wealth properly is very arrogant and quite rude. I like it that I can potentially support appearance of a new nation if I want to. In my opinion it's a very good usage of resources. In working economy you shouldn't tell others how to use their property and what's right or wrong. 

[Jean Ribault]

No.  Traders use stockpiles to purchase when advantageous and then move/sell when advantageous.  This is just a money grab with no benefit.

[Fenris]

8 minutes ago, vazco said:

I didn't use exploits. 

Alt accounts are allowed, i know.

 

8 minutes ago, vazco said:

In an economy based on supply and demand those that understand those mechanisms will always gain wealth

We have infinite supply of everything, but game can change mechanics. We had austerity immediately after the wipe, remember? When devs realised what mess they produced, they removed it. Now we have shops flooded with everything. Awesome "economy".

 

10 minutes ago, vazco said:

That doesn't mean economy is broken, it's an opposite

There is no "ECONOMY" in NA, unless you believe in Santa Clause. Trading goods are useless, most woods and goods you need can be crafted, and if you don`t have teak or white oak, well, you explained already.... USE ALTS.

 

13 minutes ago, vazco said:

It would be hard to implement a capitalistic economy in which I would be poor

Austerity after the wipe, a year ago? You were rich? Everybody was poor these days lol.

[Fenris]

6 minutes ago, vazco said:

Btw, telling me I can't use my wealth properly is very arrogant and quite rude. I like it that I can potentially support appearance of a new nation if I want to. In my opinion it's a very good usage of resources. In working economy you shouldn't tell others how to use their property and what's right or wrong. 

I don`t give a rat`s ass about your "wealth".

And there is no "economy" in NA.

[vazco]

13 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Austerity after the wipe, a year ago? You were rich? Everybody was poor these days lol.

I was poor for the first 40 days, not afterwards. I didn't have an alt then. Back then you could get rich by inter - nation trading and dealing with other nations to support you or smuggling. I liked that economy much more personally. Current one is less real and less meaningful. 

12 minutes ago, Fenris said:

And there is no "economy" in NA.

Let's agree to disagree. Economy is there, even if there's an abundance of goods. On the verge of contracts and euro traders there is even a free unregulated economy which allows for people who understand it to get rich quicker. 

You definitely don't need an alt nowadays to get rich. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by vazco

[Fenris]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

I was poor for the first 40 days, not afterwards. I didn't have an alt then. Back then you could get rich by inter - nation trading and dealing with other nations to support you or smuggling. 

Let's agree to disagree. Economy is there, even if there's an abundance of goods. On the verge of contracts and euro traders there is even a free unregulated economy which allows for people who understand it to get rich quicker. 

You definitely don't need an alt nowadays to get rich. 

Of course you were, like everybody else was, and AFTERWARDS, when devs removed austerity, you were not, like everybody else. See how simpleminded this "economy" is?

Where do you see economy in this game, when you need to sail 30 min. in some regions, earning 3-4 millions per run? Is that economy?

Nobody needs an alt account to get rich, since shops are full with trading goods,  but having an alt to gather resources which matter? Copper ingots, Teak, White Oak, Cartagena Tar? No? 

There is no supply and demand in NA, because game mechanics are that simple, which means PLAYERS can not influence them. And if i can`t influence market, because everything is there, it just needs to be picked up, then, it means there is no economy in NA.

 

[Slim McSauce]

The money has to go somewhere or people would end up all having billions of gold each and then we're back to economy not mattering, but it's gotta be the right way.

Dock fees, building tax, outpost tax. You can have unlimited of all of these, but you're gonna pay daily/weekly for each one you use. So i'll open 20 outposts but be paying a couple mill a day. That's where the money would go.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Fenris]

7 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

The money has to go somewhere or people would end up all having billions of gold each and then we're back to economy not mattering, but it's gotta be the right way.

Dock fees, building tax, outpost tax. You can have unlimited of all of these, but you're gonna pay daily/weekly for each one you use. So i'll open 20 outposts but be paying a couple mill a day. That's where the money would go.

 

Exactly.."Money needs to go somewhere".

And that is the major problem with NA "economy".

It doesn`t flow between players as it should.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Fenris

[Christendom]

Thinking more on this, I would support this more if clans had the ability to tax their members.  In games like Warcraft and Albion, clan banks have the ability to tax all incoming gold received by members of the clan.  This funds the clan bank.  I agree there needs to be money sinks in the game, but owning the port and paying taxes on that is already a sink.  If you're paying to own the port, you shouldn't have to pay to store shit there too.

[z4ys]

30 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Thinking more on this, I would support this more if clans had the ability to tax their members.  In games like Warcraft and Albion, clan banks have the ability to tax all incoming gold received by members of the clan.  This funds the clan bank.  I agree there needs to be money sinks in the game, but owning the port and paying taxes on that is already a sink.  If you're paying to own the port, you shouldn't have to pay to store shit there too.

True. Why not introduce free storage at clan owned ports at a certain limit? A clan warehouse at a owned port has no tax? Would give a meaning to a clan owned port right?

Edited July 8, 2018 by z4ys

[vazco]

6 hours ago, Fenris said:

re is no supply and demand in NA, because game mechanics are that simple, which means PLAYERS can not influence them. And if i can`t influence market, because everything is there, it just needs to be picked up, then, it means there is no economy in NA.

 

I agree with you that abundance of some goods is bad. There are some scarce goods as well. Not only the ones you listed. 

 

6 hours ago, Fenris said:

Of course you were, like everybody else was, and AFTERWARDS, when devs removed austerity, you were not, like everybody else. See how simpleminded this "economy" is?

You're wrong here. I wasn't rich for 40 days since I was maxing out my outposts, buildings and others. Once I did this, I was wealthy enough to support my sailing without any issues. After 40 days when I started international trade and selling goods from Bermuda, I was rich, having more than I could spend. @Rapanui128plhad the same strategy it lasted for a few months of Austerity patch.

Again, that economy was better. Now I have to search for real economy, back then it was common everywhere. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by vazco