My reasons why this Game will never Succeed....

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

PvP Conan Exiles is, 99%, all the resources/grinding is from the environment, very little is from looting other players, you can just play environment while on PvP server, you just need to be a runner! and get to T3 building as soon as you can.

PS, topic is now way off OP.

 

 

As I said. Conan Exiles is an PvE Game.

PvP is an 100% Optional side thing you can do for kicks. But it offers no benefit nor is it in any way required.

 

And no this is Perfectly on Topic.

Because as I said above.

If NA would go PvE like Elite Dangerous thus allowing people to only do PvP when they want to. And otherwise be completely safe. The Game would attract far more Players.

But they would need far more PvE Content for that.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

3 hours ago, Sunleader said:

3.

Tarkov is an PvP Game. There is no real PvE Gameplay and if you consider some parts PvE its at best a sideshow for the PvP Battle.

The Game itself is 100% Focused on PvP. It does not combine PvE at all to be Honest.  And you get Max Equipment within Minutes based on Luck.

There are scavs which are AI which would make it PVE. 

They just introduced scav bosses as well. Scavs are no joke unless you are running max level gear. Even then some scavs can still kill you with a headshot. 

Scavs can range in the equipment they have (from a pistol and a vest to an AK with a Fort armor etc) I have died many times to scavs. As have all players. I think the game does a great job of mixing pvp and pve for being such a new game. 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by RedNeckMilkMan

[RedNeckMilkMan]

3 hours ago, Sunleader said:

.

I myself Played alot of Arma even back when it was still called Operation Flashpoint.

And Arma does not Combine PvE and PvP at all.

All PvP Matches are 99% PvP and the only Mutliplayer PvE is Coop Missions where no PvP happens.

This is entirely Logical because the AI in Arma is pretty good but not very Human. And Scenarios need to be Scripted very Accurately. Making it Impossible to have any remotely useful AI Enemies inside an Multiplayer Match.

Again a Instanced Multiplayer is not even Comparable to NA and it cannot combine PvP and PvE because its 100% Optional. But yes again if you just removed Levels etc in NA Legends and just Started out everyone on Max level with Unlimited Money. You would get it.

Arma 3 wasteland. PVE and PVP. 

Even Dragon rising had pvp/pve where you could command your men and fight with them against other players. 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

On 7/26/2018 at 8:52 AM, Sunleader said:

C.

AI is not Easy to Program.

Very True.

But this current System is not an Actual AI to begin with.

Currently its actually not an AI at all to be Honest.

Because right now what your Fighting has no Intelligence. What your Fighting is an Preset Program which takes action based on Triggers.

You're being pedantic, you know what he means when he say AI, because everyone uses that term to refer to non scripted NPCs in video games. 

There is no such thing as a good NPC that is not scripted. I think the devs have done a great job with the AI . The only issue is when they fire and sailing upwind. That's pretty damn good if you ask me. Other games the AI moves in one direction or just all out attacks you or it cheats and has aim assist etc. The only AI that cheat in this game are the Epic Mission AI because they are supposed to be very difficult to kill.

Edited July 30, 2018 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Corona Lisa]

Dota, LoL, Ark, DayZ, Left4Dead, Wreckfest.

 

All these games have a lot of PvE elements. They use PvE to supplement the PvP action in a fun and predictable way.

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

There are scavs which are AI which would make it PVE. 

They just introduced scav bosses as well. Scavs are no joke unless you are running max level gear. Even then some scavs can still kill you with a headshot. 

Scavs can range in the equipment they have (from a pistol and a vest to an AK with a Fort armor etc) I have died many times to scavs. As have all players. I think the game does a great job of mixing pvp and pve for being such a new game. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Arma 3 wasteland. PVE and PVP. 

Even Dragon rising had pvp/pve where you could command your men and fight with them against other players. 

 

Except they dont.

Scavs are nothing but a lootsource.

They add nothing to the game itself. The Game remains 100% Focused on the PvP aspect the PvE is at best a side thing. In this case its not even that. Its more of an natural hazard protecting some loot that buffs your PvP chances.

 

 

And yes in Arma. You could command Soldiers in PvP. Which is still 100% PvP.

After all PvP is not limited to FPS. PvP can be done in RTS as well.

And Wasteland is pretty much the sane as Tarkov. PvE (the little it has) is optional and without aby meaning. No progress no sense. Wasteland is 100% about PvP.

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

You're being pedantic, you know what he means when he say AI, because everyone uses that term to refer to non scripted NPCs in video games. 

There is no such thing as a good NPC that is not scripted. I think the devs have done a great job with the AI . The only issue is when they fire and sailing upwind. That's pretty damn good if you ask me. Other games the AI moves in one direction or just all out attacks you or it cheats and has aim assist etc. The only AI that cheat in this game are the Epic Mission AI because they are supposed to be very difficult to kill.

Nope.

He is the one Pedantic there.

He uses that term knowing its just a simple trigger program. But then pretends its an real AI which is hard to program.

 

I merely set that straight.

And Mate in the past they *improved* AI. It was ridiculous because the AI basicly fired broadside out of their Stern etc.

They removed it again after massive complains.

 

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Dota, LoL, Ark, DayZ, Left4Dead, Wreckfest.

 

All these games have a lot of PvE elements. They use PvE to supplement the PvP action in a fun and predictable way.

You already Answer your own Question.

None of them Combine PvE and PvP.

All of these Games are 100% PvP Focused. PvE is only an Side thing used to *Supplement* PvP.

[Corona Lisa]

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

You already Answer your own Question.

None of them Combine PvE and PvP.

All of these Games are 100% PvP Focused. PvE is only an Side thing used to *Supplement* PvP.

What a useless discussion man, I wanna see u fighting a player in ARK while a T-Rex is attacking u  Or fight other players in LoL while Minions destroy your base (well u can but then u lose)....

It all depends on the moment you look at it, at some point u focus PvE stuff and at some point its about PvP. If you look at any MMO you can decide if you wanna focus PvE, PvP or mix it up.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[Guest]

no one has mentioned WoW yet? great PvE and option/forced to OW PvP if you're on the right server for it.

btw @Sunleader id you didnt know PvE stands for Player versus Environment which means, player versus computer controlled character. Just felt telling you since you claim  several games that are pve instances with option for pvp that are mentioned isnt pve games that actually have succeded

Edited July 30, 2018 by Guest

[Sunleader]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

What a useless discussion man, I wanna see u fighting a player in ARK while a T-Rex is attacking u  Or fight other players in LoL while Minions destroy your base (well u can but then u lose)....

It all depends on the moment you look at it, at some point u focus PvE stuff and at some point its about PvP. If you look at any MMO you can decide if you wanna focus PvE, PvP or mix it up.

It doesnt.

Again in that case the T-Rex is just an Map element. Not real content.

Its just an random factor inside a PvP Match.

But to begin with Ark is an 100% PvE Game. PvP is just an optional extra and entireky voluntary.

The Content is all PvE and set to work in a PvE Design.

 

Look at your example there yourself.

An Enemy Player in Lol is always Dangerous regardless of being alone etc. But the Minions are only a threat if left alone.

The Minions just serve as Food and as an Delay. They aint any Factor in the Match unless Ignored or used by a Player.

Now Imagine this.

Every Minion is a Fully Skilled Character like the ones the Players Play. And each got a decent AI.

That would be Combining PvE and PvP for that Match. But it would ruin the Game. Because in Lol the Match is supposed to be decided by the 2 Playerteams Fighting each other.

So the PvE Aspect becoming an Deciding Factor would be a Death Sentence to the Games Selling Point.

 

3 hours ago, Wyy said:

no one has mentioned WoW yet? great PvE and option/forced to OW PvP if you're on the right server for it.

btw @Sunleader id you didnt know PvE stands for Player versus Environment which means, player versus computer controlled character. Just felt telling you since you claim  several games that are pve instances with option for pvp that are mentioned isnt pve games that actually have succeded

You guys dont like Reading do you?

 

My Claim was:

*There is no Game that Combines PvE and PvP and Succeeds.

All of em either Seperate PvP and PvE or they Focus on one of the two while the other is only a side thing*

 

WoW is the Same.

PvP is an Optional thing Seperated from the Remaining Game.

And 98% of the Game is PvE.

 

Before throwing any more Random Games out here simply ask yourselves a Simple Question please.

Would the Game you Suggest be Fun for PvE Players AND for PvP Players without Seperating them from each other and without placing severe Restrictions on one of them?

Because unless you can Answer this Question with Yes. The Game you Suggest is clearly not Succeeding in combining PvP and PvE.

But this Question should also tell you obviously that this cannot work.

Most PvE Players will never have Fun if they can just be Killed by other Players without Protection.

And most PvPers wont enjoy a Game where they have to Play large amounts of PvE Grind.

NA currently has both.

A large Grind forcing you to Play alot of PvE but little to no Protection from PvP

Thanks to that all PvE Players leave because they dont care about being Hunted by annoying PvP constantly and the PvP Players are leaving as well cause they have to bother with boring PvE all the time.

Thats why NA needs to decide on one and Focus it.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

15 hours ago, Sunleader said:

lite Dangerous is not Mixing PvP and PvE at all.

Elite Dangerous can be Played Freely in a Chosen Mode. Meaning you can go with your Character into 100% Solo Mode with no other Players.

You have 3 modes. If you go online you have both, pvp and pve and AI will be a challenge. If you don't want to go you have coop versus AI or only solo pve.

There's facts. Then there's opinions and then there's lies. Do not for a moment try to replace one of them with the others.

Again you simply EXPECT everyone to read your mind when you question was simple, so I advise you to write exactly what you mean.

IL-2 Great Battles can have both, as in NA it is your OPTION to choose which server you play on. And given the online wars go on 24/7 the AI patrols and well coded routines ensure non stop action and even affect, to a degree, the outcome as they actively engage the enemy elements, from supplies to AF infrastructure, to tank columns. So, again you are given a choice, same as in NA.

In Arma you have all the wastelands, exiles, and the offspring of those including all the ww2 build ups.

Again, you were so generalistic in your question so you get generalistic answers.

From reading your replies I would say your HONEST question would be:

- What MMO mixes both.

I will still say Elite Dangerous. You have the full package online or you go solo/coop, so pvp or pve. take your pick and be glad because ALL your actions influence the universe, even if you don't open yourself to other players, you know pew pew all your containers belong to us, no different from NA raiding  

[Sunleader]

53 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

You have 3 modes. If you go online you have both, pvp and pve and AI will be a challenge. If you don't want to go you have coop versus AI or only solo pve.

There's facts. Then there's opinions and then there's lies. Do not for a moment try to replace one of them with the others.

Again you simply EXPECT everyone to read your mind when you question was simple, so I advise you to write exactly what you mean.

IL-2 Great Battles can have both, as in NA it is your OPTION to choose which server you play on. And given the online wars go on 24/7 the AI patrols and well coded routines ensure non stop action and even affect, to a degree, the outcome as they actively engage the enemy elements, from supplies to AF infrastructure, to tank columns. So, again you are given a choice, same as in NA.

In Arma you have all the wastelands, exiles, and the offspring of those including all the ww2 build ups.

Again, you were so generalistic in your question so you get generalistic answers.

From reading your replies I would say your HONEST question would be:

- What MMO mixes both.

I will still say Elite Dangerous. You have the full package online or you go solo/coop, so pvp or pve. take your pick and be glad because ALL your actions influence the universe, even if you don't open yourself to other players, you know pew pew all your containers belong to us, no different from NA raiding  

1.

 Your the one Attempting to Replace Facts with your Opinion. And your making it Horribly Obvious on top of that.

Because the Facts are Super Simple.

Elite Dangerous Content is 99% PvE. Meaning its PvE Focused.

Elite Dangerous PvP is 100% Optional. Meaning that the Game is clearly not catering to PvP Playerbase.

Elite Dangerous allows you to Switch Servers any time you want without any Limits or Restrictions. Meaning that there is absolutely no Benefit on Risking PvP.

Thats the Facts. And thats why the Game is clearly not Combining PvP and PvE at all. They are Seperating it 100%

 

2.

I am not Expecting anyone to Read my Mind at all. Thats why I am writing such Long and Extensive Posts Explaining every Detail.

And I did the same before as well.

My Statement was Extremely Detailed and very Specific. Including examples and Explanations.

Thing is. It does not Agree with your Opinion so you wanted to claim it wrong anyways and now your Trying to Force your Opinion as a Fact by Muddying the Water.

A Cheap Tactic thats unfortunately all too common in Forums like this.

 

3.

Its Funny how you try to Claim that IL-2 is Mixing both but then you yourself relativate the statement making clear that the Game is not just Seperating the Modes and making it 100% optional but also make clear that even in this Optional part the AI plays only a small Side Role.

Thing is. You Forget the most Importand Part as usual.

Do you really think PvE Players are having Fun and Playing IL-2 in PvP Matches ?

The Answer is No and you know it just as well as I do.

 

And pls dont try to compare that to NA.

In IL-2 you dont need to do any Leveling. You can Die as much as you want and lose nothing. You need no Grind and the Enemys you meet are always at the same level in terms of Equipment.

 

4.

Thing is Arma remains entirely Seperated on PvP and PvE.

You can try and Weasel around all you want. My Statement was so Incredible Detailed that its astonishing that you would even attempt to claim you understood it wrong.

What part about

""""

Then do us a Favor and out of these "plenty" pls name me a few.

Because I can Guarantee you. There is not a Single Game which trys to do both and actually Succeeds.

Every Single Successful Game will be either Extremely Focused on one Side and have the other merely as an side thingy. Or will be Seperating them entirely by having Seperate Zones either by Complete Block (no PvP allowed at all) or by Mechanics (Extremely Harsh Penalties for PvP)

""""

is in any way Generic.

You just Ignoring my Question and throwing out Random Game Names is your own Fault.

And all of your Games can be Denied by just this Statement.

Because all of the Games you Name are either Extremely Focused on one Side or have the Sides Seperated.

 

Sorry but Seriously. Now your just being Stubborn. You know your Wrong and dont want to Admit. So as you cant change how Obviously your Wrong your now trying to push the Fault for you being Wrong onto me by claiming that I would have been unclear thus causing you to Misunderstand.

 

5.

As I said above already.

Elite Dangerous is not Mixing PvE and PvP at all.

PvE is done in Solo and Private Groups. While PvP is done in Open. And People Switch however they want at any time they want. Just like War Zones in WoW where People who want to do PvP go just to do PvP.

But more Importand. This (like all other Games you named) can immediately be Denied by the very Post you Answered when you first bought it up.

"""

Every Single Successful Game will be either Extremely Focused on one Side and have the other merely as an side thingy. Or will be Seperating them entirely by having Seperate Zones either by Complete Block (no PvP allowed at all) or by Mechanics (Extremely Harsh Penalties for PvP)

""

Elite Dangerous is 99% PvE Content. PvP is just an Optional Side Thing. Something that has neither any Benefit nor any Relevance to the Game itself.

 

NA could do the same by the way. They could Choose PvE as the main Content of the Game. Simply have all Players Share 1 Character among all Servers which can Join any Server he Wants at any Time he wants. And then Start Creating PvE Content.

The PvP Server would basicly become the same as the Open Mode in Elite Dangerous. An PvP Arena which Players only join when they want to Play PvP while everyone would be on PvE Server to build up their Ships and Stuff.

Of course this will only work if NA also Implements PvE Content to keep People Happy.

 

You can also compare it in the other Direction.

If Elite Dangerous would attempt to Enforce both Modes like NA Does. They could make that very Easily.

They Simply Bind each Character to one Game Mode. Thus Solo or PG Characters dont being able to Play in Open.

Meaning that Suddenly Players in Open would be Forced to actually do PvE Activities in Open Play if they want to Play on the "PvP" Server.

Bam they would actually Mix PvE and PvP.

Needless to say that just like NA the Game would then Fail Epic and Lose Thousands of Players very Fast.

Albeit it would still be better off than NA. Because Elite Dangerous has lots of PvE Content thus Players remaining on the then Pure PvE Servers would still Continue Playing for large Parts.

Only the PvP Players would leave in Droves short after because the PvP Server would Starve for Targets as the guys from PvE Server no longer come over when they are in the Mood for it.

 

 

 

Sorry Mate.

But Seriously. Stop grasping for Straws.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I am sure you are trying to convince yourself of something.

I hope you succeed.

Fair winds.

[Farrago]

I keep expecting him to transition to warning us to "never start a landwar in Asia" and "never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

Truly he has a dizzying intellect.

[Sunleader]

12 hours ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

I am sure you are trying to convince yourself of something.

I hope you succeed.

Fair winds.

Well. At least you didnt try to complain about Grammar or Formatting like most other people when they run out of arguments.