OP Ships

[PG Monkey]

Without the mods/upgrades there would be no such thing as an op ship.The xebec for example would not be "op" without the pirate refit. There is no need to nerf or buff ships just remove or drastically reduce the effect of the upgrades.
 

[Guest]

Sorry, you are right about the rig refit making the xebec op. But the day we lose upgrades is the day I leave.

Theory crafting and customized builds is the bread and butter of high level play. Sometimes prussia spends more time talking about ship builds then sailing lol.

[swartz]

Remove upgradeS/refit or made them available for everybody easly via Combat mark ( not pvp mark or other shit like this) same stuff as for those skillbooks

 

 

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Marginal gains. All accessible through Admiralties. Full Book Collections give extra marginal bonus to all but uses equal number of slots to the amount of items ( 5 books = 5 slots = extra % for all due to entire collection ). Marginal gains are the bread and butter of reality and simulation and a lot of players spend countless hours fiddling and trying out combinations, from F1 races to sailing. 15% and 30% is not marginal.

 

[Sella]

Upgrades and refits allow for drastic changes in performance. They should be more like small buffs than game changers

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Upgrades and refits allow for drastic changes in performance. They should be more like small buffs than game changers

They generally are small buffs. Only some interactions between some ships and rig refits are broken. Rig refits should revert to pre-buff levels.

[Alvar Fañez de Minaya]

53 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Marginal gains. All accessible through Admiralties. Full Book Collections give extra marginal bonus to all but uses equal number of slots to the amount of items ( 5 books = 5 slots = extra % for all due to entire collection ). Marginal gains are the bread and butter of reality and simulation and a lot of players spend countless hours fiddling and trying out combinations, from F1 races to sailing. 15% and 30% is not marginal.

 

 

And would not it be better if the players used that time to fight with equal ships instead of using that time to get an advantage over other players with less time to play?.

Edit: This game is fantastic to have 5 or 6 hours daily to play, but the mayority of the players can't use so much time playing and abandon the game when they knew that never will fight on equal conditions.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Alvar Fañez de Minaya

[Vile Executioner]

1 hour ago, PG Monkey said:

Without the mods/upgrades there would be no such thing as an op ship.The xebec for example would not be "op" without the pirate refit. There is no need to nerf or buff ships just remove or drastically reduce the effect of the upgrades.
 

PG I completely agree with you. I think this game doesn’t need sail force mods. There is absolutely no reason now to use a reno or other 5th rates that are down wind focused now because you can get the same result out of an ingermanland, wappen or Agamemnon with sail force mods. With mods like this it makes the game feel bland. I miss the old days where each ship had a pretty good chance in their own way. Now you can even get a bellona to do close to the speed cap and most of the 4ths to do the speed cap. What’s the point in using ships like the reno, cerberus, trinc, pirate frigate/frigate, hermione, and Santa Cecilia. They all share the exact same profile when using elite spanish and they can not escape ships like the ingermanland using the same setup. I know for a fact that the moment they remove sail force mods, the rest of the server will now have a pretty wide choice of ships to use to play a different role as the hunter on open world.... #MakeTheRenoGreatAgain

[swartz]

just made them available for everybody so everybody will be on the same lvl, no pvp or rare things.  the game will be balanced but look like its not what players or dev want.. you guys had this kind of stuff 2 years ago and you had over than 600 players everyday. now it gona be 1 years you put this new thing in place , you lose 25% of player... dont search further why

[beagleplease]

The issue with making upgrades give a minor bonus is why even bother with them at all then? 

There needs to be a level of customisation to allow for player expression, giving players real choices on how to fit their ships is great for a game like this. 

The problem as others have pointed out is the overpowered rare mods and skills.  British gunners give 3% reload vs elite which gives 8% and - 5% dispersion.  Absolutely ridiculous advantage.  And if you have the skill on top of that too its even worse.  you can easily end up with 15% faster reload than someone running the obtainable versions with the various reloads skills.

First of all level the playing field so we all have access to these mods.  Then it becomes easier to balance them since more people are using them. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by beagleplease

[qw569😳]

If Le Requin lost foremast then she lost 33%

If Cerberus lost foremast then she lost 47%

If use rig repairs without any modules and skill books then Le Requin restore till 92% and Cerberus till 78%

Call me another ship that loses less than 33% when the foremast is lost.

[Vile Executioner]

6 minutes ago, qw569 said:

If Le Requin lost foremast then she lost 33%

If Cerberus lost foremast then she lost 47%

If use rig repairs without any modules and skill books then Le Requin restore till 92% and Cerberus till 78%

Call me another ship that loses less than 33% when the foremast is lost.

Wrong, if requin loses the foremast it goes down to 56% sail from 100%. 

[Vile Executioner]

If the requin lost the main mast it goes down to 71%

[qw569😳]

Just now, Vile Executioner said:

Wrong, if requin loses the foremast it goes down to 56% sail from 100%. 

thx. Maybe i wrong translate post of @z4ys

But Le Requin is 6 rate and brake Cerberus bowsprit. What another ship of 6 rate can brake bowsprit of 5 rate?

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, qw569 said:

If Le Requin lost foremast then she lost 33%

If Cerberus lost foremast then she lost 47%

If use rig repairs without any modules and skill books then Le Requin restore till 92% and Cerberus till 78%

Call me another ship that loses less than 33% when the foremast is lost.

Maybe sail dmg model needs an overhaul. Xebec made it clear that each mast for her is 33% looking at the sail size I would give each mast the same percentage. Mizzen should be around 25%. Main and front should share the other 75%. 

Regarding the xebec issue Iam not sure how percentage gets counted for all other ships. I always thought sail area has a huge impact but it doesn't look like.

But yeah that's a topic on its own.

I can understand the mmo guys advocating for mods and all other that say they are op. 

Good step would be to make encyclopedias at least a 2-3slot thing. 

Control stacking more

Give more options to obtain mods

[z4ys]

15 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

Wrong, if requin loses the foremast it goes down to 56% sail from 100%. 

When you checked it? as xebec was given for testing it was 33%

At 1min:20 or so

In that vid main mast is around 33%

At 1min:20 or so

Edited June 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Vile Executioner]

53 minutes ago, z4ys said:

When you checked it? as xebec was given for testing it was 33%

At 1min:20 or so

In that vid main mast is around 33%

At 1min:20 or so

That’s correct your main mast is 33%. But the foremast drops you to 56% sail ish. Lose that front mast and your done. 

[Vile Executioner]

The middle mast is just a speed thing for the xebec. It’s only useful for speed, not handling of the ship. Therefore it’s not a huge loss. The foremast is the worst one to lose on the ship. I’ve escaped other xebecs using my stern guns to demast the foremast and lower the enemy down by 44% sail, also once you lose that mast your ship will not sail straight.  

[Vile Executioner]

But to keep this post alive with the topic, upgrades that increase sail force should not be in game. Doing such will completely balance the game. For instance, the rattlesnake is the fastest ship in the game...but it is limited due to sail force and an ingermanland built properly can catch it. 

[z4ys]

Nice so it got somewhat changed I lost the mizzen once and it was 33% as well. Percentage distribution still doesn't make sense because front and main have almost same area.

[Vile Executioner]

I really wish I could use my cerberus properly like the old days before sail force was a big problem for her

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Vile Executioner said:

I really wish I could use my cerberus properly like the old days before sail force was a big problem for her

You're as bad as a BMW driver (you probably don't indicate your turns either).  But I agree completely that the big mods are a problem and a level playing field that rewards skill and not stuff is the way for the game to move forward  

[oldcrankyman]

5 hours ago, beagleplease said:

The issue with making upgrades give a minor bonus is why even bother with them at all then? 

There needs to be a level of customisation to allow for player expression, giving players real choices on how to fit their ships is great for a game like this. 

The problem as others have pointed out is the overpowered rare mods and skills.  British gunners give 3% reload vs elite which gives 8% and - 5% dispersion.  Absolutely ridiculous advantage.  And if you have the skill on top of that too its even worse.  you can easily end up with 15% faster reload than someone running the obtainable versions with the various reloads skills.

First of all level the playing field so we all have access to these mods.  Then it becomes easier to balance them since more people are using them. 

That's not workable.  The mods are rewards for battling.  It's beyond silly to give rewards to people who haven't earned them.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, oldcrankyman said:

That's not workable.  The mods are rewards for battling.  It's beyond silly to give rewards to people who haven't earned them.

and it's funny the folks that get most of those rare mods...>PVErs< cause they only drop from grinding AI.  The guys that only PvP and don't grind have to buy them off other players.  Sounds more like folks just want the easy way to get something in game.

[beagleplease]

1 hour ago, oldcrankyman said:

That's not workable.  The mods are rewards for battling.  It's beyond silly to give rewards to people who haven't earned them.

whats beyond silly is giving the 100 or so players who spend the most time in game a huge advantage over the rest of the player base and potential player base, so those players leave.