Balancing Hercules and Le Requin with other Free ships

[Lovec1990]

Calm down guys admin said they will balance herc and xebec against free ships.

I belive severe BR increase will fix PB issue other solution is:

Give players chsnce too retake tutorial after some time example tutorial reopens every week. We solve pay to win plus give other players a chance to get herc again

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just look at the combatnews tonight and The Last Templer and wonder just how many of them was he in a Herc and fighting some one else...lol

[The Last Templar]

10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Just look at the combatnews tonight and The Last Templer and wonder just how many of them was he in a Herc and fighting some one else...lol

Other players are welcome to bring their hercs and sink our fleet. I encourage it, in fact.

 

[Lovec1990]

Ok i have something too say:

We have two ships Hercules and Requin i will try to addres both:

Hercules: is only OP in port battles in OW larger frigates can beat him so as was said BR increase is easy fix for now.

Requin: is speed demon at angles that ships capable of killing him cannot do a thing smaller ships capaable ofg catching him are outguned by him.

So herc needs just BR increase atm while requin needs too be looked at and balaced perhaps decreasing his armor thickness and HP

 

what do you think plus did you do any testing yet?

[Lovec1990]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Le Requin will replace Prince.

Hercules will do with Niagara and Rattle.

Both ships have a big difference in firepower and boarding capabilities to achieve a reasonable balance. 

The easiest option would be removing them from port battles. No premium ships allowed in RvR, it will be make things more fair for all.

I have no problem with PB ban under condition that ships are not nerfed besides screening is still allowed

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lovec1990

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Le Requin will replace Prince.

Hercules will do with Niagara and Rattle.

Both ships have a big difference in firepower and boarding capabilities to achieve a reasonable balance. 

The easiest option would be removing them from port battles. No premium ships allowed in RvR, it will be make things more fair for all.

I would allow them in in deep water port battles, but make them 120 BR.  Make both 5th rates, but allow them in shallow water OW fights and that is it, balanced meet.  No need to mess with the other shallow ships, even though I'm sure they could use some love any way.

By the way has any one tested to see if you can even get the Le Requin in deep water port battles or is it currently not allowed in any?  I can see it being used for circle control and Mortar Brig hunting.

[admin]

Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

[Fluffy Fishy]

17 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

+1 and repeat. Hydrographics and individual drafts may be too much programming but let's at least have more detail than shallow/deep. BR may be easy fix.

Let's not throw out any semblance of historical ship armament because of this Herc PB issue please. Ok do take away the poods on the Herc, frankly they are seriously questionable as a main ship armament anyway.

Edinorogs are pretty standard armaments on Russian ships though, but their issue is that historically they were used pretty sparingly, mostly equipped in similar manner to large calibre carronades on ships of the line in numbers of around 6-8 on the upper decks, although they did get used in for an entire gun deck on some of the 18lb frigates, usually the weather deck, and assuming Hercules is of Russian origin (which to me looks most likely) she probably should be able to use them arguing historically.

I'm personally quite split between how we balance the new ships, balancing the current roster to them seems a bit daft as does not letting them in port battles. Its probably better to look at these two ships individually, again looking historically at these ships for balance, Requin has armour that is far too thick, she's a xebec they are the paper thin ships of the age of sail. Hercules on the other hand is quite brick like, and should suffer more speed and agility issues when compared to the other similar sized ships, she should be more vulnerable to carronade armed small ships with higher mobility.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Fluffy Fishy

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

i think you made quite a few players happy and at ease with this and i like it

[Wind]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

What kind of premium ship is this then?

[Lovec1990]

4 minutes ago, Wind said:

What kind of premium ship is this then?

 

lets be real hercules is too strong for shallow PBs even in OW it will dominate areas where is alot of shallows and shallow ports

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

Ah, hmmm

I guess that's good?

[z4ys]

58 minutes ago, Wind said:

What kind of premium ship is this then?

its unique because it will be the only 5th rate that can sail in shallows even it cannot enter shallow pbs.

So buyer of the ship can still feel being op while highest rate in da hoooood but he will not change pb balance. But maybe screening? Which is one of the worst rvr features....

Edited June 19, 2018 by z4ys

[Tiedemann]

Hercules will still be superior in for example the Nassau patrol area.. But on the other hand if the Hercules was excluded from that event, what good is it? Can a Hercules match a Suprise with out poods?

[vazco]

11 hours ago, admin said:

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

That's actually quite dangerous - they could be used to grind hostilty or screen and noone could oppose those ships.

[Christendom]

11 hours ago, admin said:

Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

[Aster]

We already have deep water ships doing this so having the herc changes nothing

[Lovec1990]

5 hours ago, vazco said:

That's actually quite dangerous - they could be used to grind hostilty or screen and noone could oppose those ships.

what prevents enemy from using hercs to counter screening fleet with hercs?

[vazco]

1 hour ago, Lovec1990 said:

what prevents enemy from using hercs to counter screening fleet with hercs?

The fact that they will be paid-for ships. This creates pay to win mechanic. 

[vazco]

4 hours ago, Aster said:

We already have deep water ships doing this so having the herc changes nothing

Deep water ships can't enter shallow waters. Herc will be able to do this. Imagine also herc in a shallow patrol zone. 

[Thonys]

WHY NOT JUST BUYING PREMIUM (GAME TIME)

access : to other ships 

access : to paints

access : more slots

access : more warehouses/buildings

access : flags

access : more ammo

access : to many more things..

remember all those separate dlc,s will cost you a fortune when you count it up, and we have not seen the last of it. there will be more to come so i think we need to discuss the form of premium as well...

discuss.

[vazco]

On 6/20/2018 at 11:52 AM, Thonys said:

WHY NOT JUST BUYING PREMIUM (GAME TIME)

I think it's a good idea, but for reasons opposite to yours. It won't be cheaper, it will be more expensive overall. It will be however more sustainable for developers. 

Non-paying users shouldn't be discluded though, it should be possible to buy premium acc or it's perks either by investment of money or time. 

Premium account would work best if it gave users easier access to battles - eg more tows, more outposts, option to remove recently killed status from you etc. 

[HachiRoku]

How do you balance a great ship and keep the game real at the same time.  i often wonder this. It can be like balancing an f22 to an f4 in a flight Sim. If you balance its no longer a sim. If you don't the f22 is meta. Personally think cannon penning on smaller calibers needs to go up a bit to reduce the gap but still make great ships great.

Edited June 22, 2018 by HachiRoku

[Aquillas]

Another way to balancing ships is to add the capability of musket/grenade fire from marines before boarding, at short range (50 metres).

This would prevent seeing Snows or Renommees ( Naval Action: 100 Days at Sea Quest (Koto Rica Trip) #4 ) sinking 2nd rates 1v1, just by staying broadside touching broaside to the Buc.

Historically, the small ship crew would have been massacred by light weapon fire.