Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[victor]

as far as I can see, right now the ship handling feels much better than before.

Edited June 14, 2018 by victor

[Lovec1990]

new observation:

i clocked my fir/fir requin moded with copper plating and pirate rig doing 8,8kn in reverse

[z4ys]

Xebec can push bellonas around because of exceptional sailforce. But a xebec shouldnt be able to. Hull to hull would just smash her due to forces on hull.

Edited June 14, 2018 by z4ys

[admin]

Based on feedback we see two repeating universal comments.

• Due to lack of square sails (maybe its a feature) the pirate refit upgrade give only benefits making xebec sailing too well in all directions
• Sail setting is extremely fast which could be fixed by adding the battle sail setting. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Based on feedback we see two repeating universal comments.

• Due to lack of square sails (maybe its a feature) the pirate refit upgrade give only benefits making xebec sailing too well in all directions
• Sail setting is extremely fast which could be fixed by adding the battle sail setting. 

Could there maybe be another mod that gives a penailty or add one to that mod.  I would love to see more a pirate refit mod with say crew and wind bonus for up wind, but you loose HPs or something to make a more fragil ship.  That could solve this or just lock the mod from this ship or ships like it as they are wickedly fast all ready without help upwind.

 

[Guest]

I dont like it. Plain and simple. I dont like the way it sails and i especially dont like how much the water comes into play when aiming. Perhaps it will be tweeked into a better ship, but for now, if you gave me another...Id give it way. I am grateful for new ships however and I know some enjoy it. This is not a ship I would want to buy as it stands.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Headless Parrot said:

I dont like it. Plain and simple. I dont like the way it sails and i especially dont like how much the water comes into play when aiming. Perhaps it will be tweeked into a better ship, but for now, if you gave me another...Id give it way. I am grateful for new ships however and I know some enjoy it. This is not a ship I would want to buy as it stands.

Yeah, I hate it too.  It's way too good for what an actual xebec would be.  The reason that European style ships dominated the seven seas is that they were far superior to these things.  Some of them were held together with ropes!  They are far too fast and far too sturdy in the game.  A 5th rate should be able to blow it to splinters with one broadside and a 6th rate with two.

[Rolando]

1 hour ago, Oberon74 said:

The reason that European style ships dominated the seven seas is that they were far superior to these things.  Some of them were held together with ropes!  They are far too fast and far too sturdy in the game.  A 5th rate should be able to blow it to splinters with one broadside and a 6th rate with two.

What do you say if the Xebec of the Russian Imperial Navy will be introduced:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_шебек_Российского_императорского_флота#cite_ref-minp_10-0

The translation of note №4 on the caliber of guns follows:

Under the project, the armament of the ships was to consist of twenty-four 24-pound and eight 6-pound cannons. In fact, the armament was twenty 24-pound and ten 6-pound guns, and from 1790 - two 24-pound, eighteen 12-pound and eight 6-pound.

[victor]

11 hours ago, admin said:

• Sail setting is extremely fast which could be fixed by adding the battle sail setting. 

I do not see this as a problem to fix, rather it's a feature that you can use in smart ways. I like it a lot, in particular when it comes to boarding manouvering.

Edited June 14, 2018 by victor

[Raf Van Boom]

Broken hitboxes - especially the stern, sail damage seems to be affected in some way, sometimes the chain projectile goes through the sails but doesn't do any damage (target has 100% sails), ball works fine.

[DeRuyter]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:27 AM, Oberon74 said:

Yeah, I hate it too.  It's way too good for what an actual xebec would be.  The reason that European style ships dominated the seven seas is that they were far superior to these things.  Some of them were held together with ropes!  They are far too fast and far too sturdy in the game.  A 5th rate should be able to blow it to splinters with one broadside and a 6th rate with two.

Keep in mind that Le Requin was larger than your typical xebec and essentially was a 5th-6th rate anyway. But your are right in general they were built to take advantage of local conditions in the med or the Baltic for example - lots of shallows, certain wind patterns and of course rowing ability. Tactically, except for larger perhaps European examples like Le Requin or El Gamo they weren't meant to go broadside to broadside anyway.

[Jim Tiberius]

Tried the ship twice in battle.

Takes some time to get use with manual sailing, and it would be nice to have half or battle sails configuration. I do understand not having many sails options in battle due to its construction, but only stop and full is quite problematic as it accelerates really fast (I'm sailing Teak/Bermuda Cedar ship).

First fight with long 9pd against a Cherubim Frigate: Interesting fight, 9pd longs were no match for the Frigate side plating, ended up having to board it as the Requin had only 13%/0% armor left in its sides and 24% structure (ship wasn't making water even badly damaged, shouldn't it?). The crew of the ship really helped, even without hammocks or any other skill such as marines or 5 rings.

Second fight with 32 pd Carron against a 3rd: This was getting really fun, but the 3rd rate did run to the shore so I had to leave it to another ship to sink as the Carronades didn't have penetration due to the distance. Note: why is the AI always running to shore, even when they are in bigger number? Is it an issue, or are they just dumb?

2pd chasers look to have limited use, if any at all.

Overall, looks a good ship. I'm not sure about having it against 6th rates in shallow water as the 32pd Carron might be too much for a 6th rate to go against. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Jim Tiberius

[BallsOfSteel]

Its Sail up or down in battle but incremental in real world?

[Jim Tiberius]

22 minutes ago, BallsOfSteel said:

Its Sail up or down in battle but incremental in real world?

Yes

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 6/15/2018 at 8:29 PM, Jim Tiberius said:

Tried the ship twice in battle.

Takes some time to get use with manual sailing, and it would be nice to have half or battle sails configuration. I do understand not having many sails options in battle due to its construction, but only stop and full is quite problematic as it accelerates really fast (I'm sailing Teak/Bermuda Cedar ship).

First fight with long 9pd against a Cherubim Frigate: Interesting fight, 9pd longs were no match for the Frigate side plating, ended up having to board it as the Requin had only 13%/0% armor left in its sides and 24% structure (ship wasn't making water even badly damaged, shouldn't it?). The crew of the ship really helped, even without hammocks or any other skill such as marines or 5 rings.

Second fight with 32 pd Carron against a 3rd: This was getting really fun, but the 3rd rate did run to the shore so I had to leave it to another ship to sink as the Carronades didn't have penetration due to the distance. Note: why is the AI always running to shore, even when they are in bigger number? Is it an issue, or are they just dumb?

2pd chasers look to have limited use, if any at all.

Overall, looks a good ship. I'm not sure about having it against 6th rates in shallow water as the 32pd Carron might be too much for a 6th rate to go against. 

Yah you went against a big 5th rate, now something like a light frigate you shouldn't have much problems with. Got to keep to the stern of those ships and work them down.  As for the 32's I have yet to test them on this ship, but remember the Niagara and the Hurc (this ship should be a shallow 5th rate too) can have 32's.   It's nothing new, in fact a group of us with a Naigara with 32's took down  Two Hurcs the other day, one was with a H Rattler and other in the PvP Zone ended up being a big nasty brawl we lost lal our ships (8 total) but the other team was two hers, two xebecs and rest H Rattlers (think it was 9 vs 6 total).   We had more promblems fighting the Xebecs than the Hercs, yes they hurt, but once you get againts them or focus they acutally went down fast.  The xebecs on the other hand would just turn up wind.  I was the only Prince, but was heavy built and couldn't match them in speed, maybe if I was light, but than they would destroy me in a brawl.   

 

From my testing of ships I just got done getting 4 slots on a Cedar/Teak build, with Copper, Navy Hull and Pirate Rig.  This ship seems way fun and great for a solo trade ship hunter, but I can get 15+ in most sail profiles with it.  It's 14.5+ in docks.   I think the pirate refit needs to be dropped from us with ships with this sail profile set up.  Maybe come out with a mod that is in the middle that can be used by this ship.   Maybe like Pirate Frigate/Privateer gives you a boost to boarding prep or moral to make up for not being able to use the Sail refits like PIrate, Spanish and such. 

the 2pbr chaser need something, more crew kill, maybe give them the effects of grape, but keep the pen and short range.  That way they are very effective and deadly up close.  This is a problem with the LVG Refit is they really don't do much anything. One or two kills in crew a broad side is doing nothing.   I been getting about 1-4 crew kills though shooting through the stern armor, never get anything like that shooting at the side armor with the LVG.  Maybe it's cause of the thickness diffrence of the armors effectiveness goes down? 

So far I been killing only AI shallow ships with this build. I had no problem taking out most of the light frigates and LGV's with the Teak/Wo build with 9's.  I'll be trying later with 32's.  Got a feeling that will have to be on a teak/wo or tuffer build cause you will have to be up close unless your fighting other shallow water ships. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

16 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

the 2pbr chaser need something, more crew kill,

The swivels kill crew very good  They did already on the LGV refit, it is the same on the Xebec.

Against some low thickness sterns you don't need to even damage it, just blaze away, roughly 5 crew per swivel if the shot is nice and well angled.

Regarding the inbuilt, similar to privateer, the xebec areas are open, crew can easily reach anywhere. Hence i proposed the inbuilt Boatswain.

 

Both the Xebec and Hercules need the BR raised to quasi-Cerberus level.

[Vile Executioner]

On 6/13/2018 at 6:42 AM, z4ys said:

What would you suggest? let the pirate rig stay the same for the xebec?

Z4ys I would suggest myself getting rid of any sail force in general because currently every down wind focused ship is the same, and throwing on something like spanish rig on it has also no negative effects on ships such as the pirate frigate, ingermanland and LGV refit. Their upwind speed doesn’t change when this modification is thrown on. Pirate rig also effects the trader lynx, lynx, privateer, etc in the same way with no negative effects. Why is that not op and the xebec current state op? Simple solution would be to get rid of it all completely and it will balance itself out. My T/W lgv refit does 13.7 at 90 and 15.5 downwind with no effect to upwind speed with only elite spanish rig on, no other speed mod. 

[z4ys]

13 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

Z4ys I would suggest myself getting rid of any sail force in general because currently every down wind focused ship is the same, and throwing on something like spanish rig on it has also no negative effects on ships such as the pirate frigate, ingermanland and LGV refit. Their upwind speed doesn’t change when this modification is thrown on. Pirate rig also effects the trader lynx, lynx, privateer, etc in the same way with no negative effects. Why is that not op and the xebec current state op? Simple solution would be to get rid of it all completely and it will balance itself out. My T/W lgv refit does 13.7 at 90 and 15.5 downwind with no effect to upwind speed with only elite spanish rig on, no other speed mod. 

try to test below 90° thats when the penalty of spanish rig starts. at 90° all canvas parts are still present in force calc. Same goes for pirate rig and prince. Try around 180° and compare.

[Sir Texas Sir]

51 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

The swivels kill crew very good  They did already on the LGV refit, it is the same on the Xebec.

Against some low thickness sterns you don't need to even damage it, just blaze away, roughly 5 crew per swivel if the shot is nice and well angled.

Regarding the inbuilt, similar to privateer, the xebec areas are open, crew can easily reach anywhere. Hence i proposed the inbuilt Boatswain.

 

Both the Xebec and Hercules need the BR raised to quasi-Cerberus level.

ON the LVG Refit I wasn't getting 5 per swivel I was lucky to get maybe 1-5 kills a broad side with them.  Think the most I ever got was 10.  With the Xebec I get 1-4 crew per shot up the stern.  WHich would maybe be cause of less armor thickness so they pen more and maybe hit more crew, but I'm not getting 5 per shots on average.

[Aster]

The swivel guns of the lgv refit tend to get 7-10 kills per broadside on 5th rates with armor with my experience which does work down their crew over time. Also the elite pirate refit is way to powerful on the requin it needs to be changed.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Aster

[Jim Tiberius]

I've put Elite Pirate Refit and Art of Ship Handling knowledge. Making 15.5kn against the wind top speed (more than the top speed showing at the dock: 14.5kn), this ship is also accelerating insanely fast!

Try with the 32 pd Carron guys, excellent for stern haking, I've also fought a Connie with them today, really good punch against its side plating. Tried manual sailing micro management, which can be quite complex, but I could sort of control the speed better with this and keep the ship at 10kn, instead of 15kn, this allowed me to go side to side with the enemy when I needed (mostly traders). Still wish we get half or battle sails option.

Yes, you do need to be close with Carrons, but since the ship is so fast you can aproach and evade from the enemy really quick.

Note: Didn't know the Niagara and Herc could run with 32d Carron, in this case this ship will have good competition in shallow. Thanks for letting me know, do appreciate.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Jim Tiberius

[Vile Executioner]

11 hours ago, z4ys said:

try to test below 90° thats when the penalty of spanish rig starts. at 90° all canvas parts are still present in force calc. Same goes for pirate rig and prince. Try around 180° and compare.

Take your piratefrigate, put a spanish rig on it and compare the upwind speed before and after. I’m 100% certain it is the same exact speeds under 90. I know this because I run it on my t/w because there is no negitive effect.

i understand that for Prince it hurts down wind lol but what I am trying to get you to understand is that the percentage it takes away from upwind on downwind focused ships is irrelevant anyway lol. Dividing by 0 is still 0 mate

Edited June 18, 2018 by Vile Executioner
Miss type

[z4ys]

7 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

Take your piratefrigate, put a spanish rig on it and compare the upwind speed before and after. I’m 100% certain it is the same exact speeds under 90. I know this because I run it on my t/w because there is no negitive effect.

i understand that for Prince it hurts down wind lol but what I am trying to get you to understand is that the percentage it takes away from upwind on downwind focused ships is irrelevant anyway lol. Dividing by 0 is still 0 mate

Do you talk about elite or normal Spanish rig?

[Vile Executioner]

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Do you talk about elite or normal Spanish rig?

Both

[z4ys]

17 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

Both

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