Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

what can a niagara do against a ram upwind requin? you underestimate the raw trolling potential that 250 crew has in shallow water battles.

Joined pirate vs 3 brits. Pirate in Herc was very quickly dispatched by the brits, 2 requins and 1 niagara. I was in xebec. Managed to capture the Niagara while i was sinking and forced both Xebecs to call it a day. Avoided all boarding attempts ( and it wasn't 1 or 2 ). Sorry man, the ship is not all powerful nor can do impossible things if you play accordingly.

Truth is, the battle could've gone either way but it didn't. That alone shows how dynamic the Naval Action combat can be, and how an average player can and will have epic battles to remember. ( salute brits, epic fight. )

Xebec is not invincible, is just easy mode versus captains that have yet no clue about the game, true, but the xebec will not be able to push any of the 6th rates unless they are rag tag sails, some 60% - 70% and upwards of beam reach.

Stop telling lies Slim. If you can't do it doesn't mean newcomers cannot learn to do it. And they will learn ( same as we all did since we first even set first hour in this game).

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

And after that you just hug them down or keep sails up and tack the wind. I fought off 2 requins in a 1v2 already, it was hard but easily possible.

 

I also fought someone else when I had a requin who realy knew how to handle the requin so it cant board you.

I have been pushed into the wind from requins in a trinco. 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

7 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

I have been pushed into the wind from requins in a trinco. 

If only the Trinc could escape the requin. Wait a minute...

[HachiRoku]

On 12/11/2018 at 3:07 AM, RedNeckMilkMan said:

If only the Trinc could escape the requin. Wait a minute...

what does that have to do with anything? I don't know why the solution to all peoples tactical problems is escaping. 

[Aquillas]

1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

what does that have to do with anything? I don't know why the solution to all peoples tactical problems is escaping. 

A saw too many people being captured by LRQ just because they enter in battle downwind of the Requin, then sail upwind at 5 knots to try and join the fight. 75% of the job is made by the "victim": no preparation, sail upwind, no mobility no speed.

I have a lot of examples of fights with @Licinio Chiavari, being in a Navy Brig. He finally got this ship at maybe the 20th fight, because I made an error in manual sailing and because my sails were still reparing from 65%...

I agree with @HachiRoku that the problem with LRQ is not how to survive, but how to sink it, because in a squared rigged ship, the damaged Requin would easily escape upwind. 1v1 gives very little chance to a squard rigged captain to get a kill. 

I should be interested in stats, but I think that 1v1, the LRQ gets a kill probably more than 50% of the fights, and is killed probably less than 5% of the fights (according to what I saw in front of KPR).

[HachiRoku]

44 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

A saw too many people being captured by LRQ just because they enter in battle downwind of the Requin, then sail upwind at 5 knots to try and join the fight. 75% of the job is made by the "victim": no preparation, sail upwind, no mobility no speed.

I have a lot of examples of fights with @Licinio Chiavari, being in a Navy Brig. He finally got this ship at maybe the 20th fight, because I made an error in manual sailing and because my sails were still reparing from 65%...

I agree with @HachiRoku that the problem with LRQ is not how to survive, but how to sink it, because in a squared rigged ship, the damaged Requin would easily escape upwind. 1v1 gives very little chance to a squard rigged captain to get a kill. 

I should be interested in stats, but I think that 1v1, the LRQ gets a kill probably more than 50% of the fights, and is killed probably less than 5% of the fights (according to what I saw in front of KPR).

stats are lies. They dont take skill into account. 

[LeBoiteux]

44 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

stats are lies. They dont take skill into account. 

That's why... they don't lie. 😉

Edited December 13, 2018 by LeBoiteux

[HachiRoku]

15 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

That's why... they don't lie. 😉

think about what you just say and reply again. 

[LeBoiteux]

24 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

think about what you just say and reply again. 

Same reply. Stat don't lie. But if you want me to be more exhaustive :

Les statistiques ne mentent pas. Elles expriment une réalité statistique calculées selon des formules connues sur une population connue. En l'occurence, les statistiques d'un navire donnent une idée de son utilisation par l'ensemble des joueurs qui l'utilisent, qu'ils soient ou non compétents. C'est donc une photographie globale du navire dans le jeu. Par contre, les statistiques peuvent aussi être manipulées quand on ne sait pas ce qu'elles recouvrent. Par exemple, si l'on ne prenait que les stat d'une catégorie de joueurs (les bons ou les mauvais joueurs) et qu'on généralise ce résultat pour parler d'un navire. Mais ce ne sont pas les statistiques qui mentent, c'est leur interprétation qui peut être erronée.

[HachiRoku]

48 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Same reply. Stat don't lie. But if you want me to be more exhaustive :

Les statistiques ne mentent pas. Elles expriment une réalité statistique calculées selon des formules connues sur une population connue. En l'occurence, les statistiques d'un navire donnent une idée de son utilisation par l'ensemble des joueurs qui l'utilisent, qu'ils soient ou non compétents. C'est donc une photographie globale du navire dans le jeu. Par contre, les statistiques peuvent aussi être manipulées quand on ne sait pas ce qu'elles recouvrent. Par exemple, si l'on ne prenait que les stat d'une catégorie de joueurs (les bons ou les mauvais joueurs) et qu'on généralise ce résultat pour parler d'un navire. Mais ce ne sont pas les statistiques qui mentent, c'est leur interprétation qui peut être erronée.

That is why they lie. If it was not for the human interpretation statistics would be facts. You take the players of the ship in account but not the ships they fighting. Are requins fighting 7th rates or 5th rates on average? Also a issue is that you cannot take the entire skill of the community into effect because many players do not know how use ships correctly. Most players can handle bigger ships better than smaller ships. Smaller ships are easy to sail but way more difficult to master. The question then is if noobs know how to take advantage of the requins strengths? Most noobs shoot stuff and do not use the 2 "overpowered" traits the ship has. Boarding and close hauled speed. Another issue with meta ships is that they will often be fighting the same meta ships. Alot of the pvp kills in hercs and requins were in herc and requin port battles. Stats do not say a thing about a ships ability in my view.

I don't call the DLC ships overpowered because I believe the game mechanics are at fault and certain ships are simply better than others. Endymion is simply a better ship than a trinco. Its how it was in real life and I will not complain about it being the case in game. The requins biggest advantage is that it takes 2 unrealistic elements. Pushing ships into wind and hiding under guns. The Herc is not overpowered because she is just a great ship ingame and in real life. I have said many times that its turn rates of smaller ships that make the herc an issue. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by HachiRoku

[admin]

15 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

what does that have to do with anything? I don't know why the solution to all peoples tactical problems is escaping. 

We tested the turn and trinco cannot be pushed into the wind if it uses yards and rudder. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, admin said:

We tested the turn and trinco cannot be pushed into the wind if it uses yards and rudder. 

what build, upgrades and ship knowledge's did you test with?

Also if just the trinc cant get turned into wind by the requin, the requin can still kill the trinc by side hugging and since the trinc cannons are so far above the waterline it wouldnt be able to shoot down at the requin

Edited December 14, 2018 by Guest

[Beeekonda]

1 hour ago, admin said:

We tested the turn and trinco cannot be pushed into the wind if it uses yards and rudder. 

 

7 minutes ago, Wyy said:

what build, upgrades and ship knowledges did you test with?

Wait! Isn't any square rigged ship can outrun requin by default?

^ That's a meme 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

 

Wait! Isn't any square rigged ship can outrun requin by default?

^ That's a meme 

yes, a lo/wo floating battery and all negative to speed mods with full hold would outrun a fir fir very fast full speed requin with 10 sail reps downwind any day 100 days a week

Edited December 14, 2018 by Guest

[John Cavanaugh]

1 hour ago, Wyy said:

what build, upgrades and ship knowledge's did you test with?

Also if just the trinc cant get turned into wind by the requin, the requin can still kill the trinc by side hugging and since the trinc cannons are so far above the waterline it wouldnt be able to shoot down at the requin

This is true of many shallow water ships. LRQ, Prince, Niagara, Privateer, etc. pictures related. The option has always been to 1) create distance at a point of sail that your enemy cant easily follow on so that you can kite while shooting masts and sails. rarely works. 2) reverse sails and depower, reverse ship and slip them off of you. often works when being hugged by ships of a similar weight, rarely works on ships that are significantly faster and more maneuverable. 3) stop ship and prep boarding to either defeat a smaller more lightly crewed ship through boarding, or force it to disengage from your hull.

1) doesnt work with Requin, prince, or niagara as all can keep up on nearly any point of sail against nearly any ship

2) doesnt work with requin or niagara as both have sails easily configured to reversing course, rarely works on prince, if and only if the ship in question has little enough mass to quickly stop itself.
3) works for most ships against Prince and niagara due to crew count, unless the ship has been raked down. in screenshot below of fight vs Consti, he succeeded in boarding me near the end of the fight, but I was able to disengage because he was already severely de crewed. still, even boarding fit I very nearly lost due to his large crew. This approach does not work against LRQ due to its crew numbers.

IMHO the best approach would be to reduce LRQ's crew to around 170. It already has a severely vulnerable hull and masts. protect your stern from raking, go to battle sails, and a requin will have a very difficult time with you. Also, someone complaining that they lost a boarding when they had no boarding mods is a bit like complaining that you lost a shooting battle with a fir/fir ship and no repair/reload mods. A good build answers many questions, and Marines 5 or Barricades will answer many problems.

 

[HachiRoku]

On 12/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, admin said:

We tested the turn and trinco cannot be pushed into the wind if it uses yards and rudder. 

I remember explaining in great detail to @Vernon Merrill  somewhere that the requin could not board me but I could not turn downwind and was stuck at 5-6 knots at 90 degrees. I said that although it was not enough to board me,  it was enough to bleed speed of. There is nothing a ship can do against that. Slow down and you get pulled. Speeding up is not an option because a requin is faster close hauled. Pushing the requin downwind from a close hauled heading is impossible with a trinco. I know this to be a fact because we were sailing the same heading for 10-15 min(probably wasn't that long but situations like that feel long). I could not aim at his sails. I could not dismast and 90% of my broadside was over shooting him so I did not have the dps to sink him. The requin never pulled me. I never claimed to have been pushed into the wind and boarded. You should read some of my longer posts on the subject we're I go into great detail. My biggest issue with this was a requin can control a trinco but I don't know of a situation a trinco can control a requin. Even being upwind of requin is not an advantage since they sail 15 knots close hauled. This gives a square rigged ship 1-2 min of dps time and that is not enough. Once she takes the wind she cannot loose. 

I will however admit that the post was a bit stupid since without more details people would assume I was pulled. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by HachiRoku

[van der Clam]

11 hours ago, Wyy said:

what build, upgrades and ship knowledge's did you test with?

Also if just the trinc cant get turned into wind by the requin, the requin can still kill the trinc by side hugging and since the trinc cannons are so far above the waterline it wouldnt be able to shoot down at the requin

You can if you keep the Lrq downwind of you. The Trinc lists 10+ degrees. It would be nice to have top deck loaded with chain and bottom with ball. But even so, the triangular sails make a difficult hit.

Edited December 14, 2018 by van der Decken

[BallsOfSteel]

No price on steam, has it been stopped for DLC purchase temporarily?

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 hour ago, BallsOfSteel said:

No price on steam, has it been stopped for DLC purchase temporarily?

 

Showing fine for me.

[BallsOfSteel]

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, BallsOfSteel said:

Restart Steam tried?

[BallsOfSteel]

Nope, tried a few times, probably a local steam problem, I have reported it

[Zlatkowar]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:14 PM, John Cavanaugh said:

Marines 5

Is that a Naval Action boys band name?

Le Requin is absolutely insane. I used to love the Privateer and it feels a bit like his big brother, big guns, large crew while also having good escape/evade abilities and top notch maneuverability. It feels a bit too powerful for a 6th rate, but too squishy for a 5th. A pleasure to sail and a treat for the eyes.

[John Cavanaugh]

On 1/25/2019 at 4:17 AM, Zlatkowar said:

Is that a Naval Action boys band name?

Should have been 15, typo. 

Point is that Requin’s only advantage over prince or privateer is crew number, but that’s an advantage that is insurmountable for the majority of players because so few run with any precautions against boarding or for boarding smaller ships. People put all their eggs in one basket.

[Njord]

A lot of people claim the herculess is useless now, which probably means it is finally a bit more balanced ( havent tried it yet ) ... was the Le Requin changed too? Anyone tried it after update?