Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Didn't HMS Surprise mount 12 pounders in a cruise at some point ?

[Palatinose]

14 minutes ago, Crow said:

The downwind profile is a joke.

Huge BR means big reinforment, (which is more dangerous than most players).

The only thing the requin has left is speed upwind, reduced now due to pirate rig nerf and large crew which still requires 2 seperate mods to reach a decent amount.

Do I smell salty tears?  (do they actually smell, someone got empirical or factual data on it?)

Huge BR means the same reinforcement as before. Are there other 6th AI reinforcements than Brig, Snow, Merc?

With an Elite Pirate Rig she still runs pretty fast downwind. And now tell me that staying behind an enemy and killing crew and guns with the swifels and pudhing him into the wind is a skill, when you're faster downwind? Pirate rig got nerfed by 1/3 and not to unusability.

The Requin now is just fine. It's where it belongs.

[Bluetooth]

33 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

So, how can you explain that most of attackers are in Requins? How can you explain why they escape so easily? How can you explain the ravages they make in new players?

Do you claim that you are the only player in game who has some adaptation capability?

 

Its all above in my post but here you go :

So, how can you explain that most of attackers are in Requins?

Because they have a chance to escape from the safe zone revenge fleet.

How can you explain why they escape so easily?

Because its a raiding ship, built for upwind speed. The revenge fleets are fast down winders.

How can you explain the ravages they make in new players?

Because there is no REAL SAFE ZONE. Only a massive reinforcement zone. You could ravage a new player in a rowboat.

Do you claim that you are the only player in game who has some adaptation capability?

NO.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Crow
spell checker

[Bluetooth]

5 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Do I smell salty tears?  (do they actually smell, someone got empirical or factual data on it?)

Huge BR means the same reinforcement as before. Are there other 6th AI reinforcements than Brig, Snow, Merc?

With an Elite Pirate Rig she still runs pretty fast downwind. And now tell me that staying behind an enemy and killing crew and guns with the swifels and pudhing him into the wind is a skill, when you're faster downwind? Pirate rig got nerfed by 1/3 and not to unusability.

The Requin now is just fine. It's where it belongs.

Do I smell salty tears?  (do they actually smell, someone got empirical or factual data on it?)

Not tears from me.

Just frustration at the same whinging and crying about the requin being a super ship, which now she is not.

With an Elite Pirate Rig she still runs pretty fast downwind.

Rich player, rich argument. Super mod argument is mute. My post specifically said unmodded which is the only way to test a ship, not the game mods.

And now tell me that staying behind an enemy and killing crew and guns with the swifels and pudhing him into the wind is a skill, when you're faster downwind?

Not sure what this has to do with my post, game abuse maybe? like speed fit Bellona's or hugging Hercs. I have no opinion on this. Again this was not in my post.

Pirate rig got nerfed by 1/3 and not to unusability.

I think you misread here ? I said it still had its speed, reduced now because of pirate rig nerf.

The Requin now is just fine. It's where it belongs.

I glad you agree with me, that is what my post said.

 

[Palatinose]

Glad we agree  

Though I get my elite refits from sealed bottles like every casual player. Never bought one for 3+x million. Whoever does needs to pump the pariseans like crazy.

[Bluetooth]

Just now, Palatinose said:

Glad we agree  

Though I get my elite refits from sealed bottles like every casual player. Never bought one for 3+x million. Whoever does needs to pump the pariseans like crazy.

I have one in the clan warehouse. Sometimes I click on it to show the others what it looks like.

Then I put it back again. 😃

[Palatinose]

Fishing perk ftw, who needs this combat perks anyways 

[Bluetooth]

15 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Fishing perk ftw, who needs this combat perks anyways 

Shssssssh.......

Now a dlc fishing boat........

Edited September 3, 2018 by Crow

[LeBoiteux]

2 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Just make requin the commerce raider she was meant to be, not the warship she currently is and watch things improve massively.

That's an interesting question. Le Requin was a warship of the French Navy mainly used to fight against Algerian/Barbary pirates who also sailed xebecs. Such warship xebecs were also used as coast guards, during sieges of Barbary cities and also during wars. I don't know whether or not it had some effects on her building (thickness/HP...) compared to a pure Barbary-made commerce raider.

I guess someone who read the book about the Requin might answer...

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, Aquillas said:

So, how can you explain that most of attackers are in Requins? How can you explain why they escape so easily? How can you explain the ravages they make in new players?

Do you claim that you are the only player in game who has some adaptation capability?

I appreciate a lot light ship users like you. And you're far more skilled than medium GB player found in safezone.

So in my opinion yours is 'a priori' whining. You have the skill set, the mindset and the experience to adapt and counter the Requin (especially now being nerfed). Far more than great majority of GB captains.

 

About using requin for me is waiting for a xebec by the night of times.

And having one is a ship fitting exactly my preferred raiding tactic (fast boarders: I raided a lot on any possible ship refitted as fast lone boarder).

Having a point of sail far better than revenge fleet ships, makes her a perfect raider... Or do you think raiders come to KPR to help Brits farming PVP marks without leaving safezone (after they already farmed gazillions of AI fleets that kindly arrive inside even your capitol area)?

Any nicely fitted ship used by a Vet will rape any ship used by a newbie. Period. You should know.

And adapting... Definately majority of British veterans are plainly not adapting.

Two days ago a British clan tried a couple traps to me: the usual easy lone prey, nobody in sight... And within 1 minute after tagging, 8 ships spawning close to me.

Problem: they were all 5th rate or bigger... And aside one, all spawned downwind. Is this a Requin issue? Or may be is it a Jamaica "Baywatch" skill issue??

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Just make requin the commerce raider she was meant to be, not the warship she currently is and watch things improve massively.

I would like to point out requin has structure/armor comparable to Niagara. That's only marginally higher than privateer ones.

Asking for nerfing HPs even more?

[Aquillas]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I appreciate a lot light ship users like you. And you're far more skilled than medium GB player found in safezone.

So in my opinion yours is 'a priori' whining. You have the skill set, the mindset and the experience to adapt and counter the Requin (especially now being nerfed). Far more than great majority of GB captains.

 

About using requin for me is waiting for a xebec by the night of times.

And having one is a ship fitting exactly my preferred raiding tactic (fast boarders: I raided a lot on any possible ship refitted as fast lone boarder).

Having a point of sail far better than revenge fleet ships, makes her a perfect raider... Or do you think raiders come to KPR to help Brits farming PVP marks without leaving safezone (after they already farmed gazillions of AI fleets that kindly arrive inside even your capitol area)?

Any nicely fitted ship used by a Vet will rape any ship used by a newbie. Period. You should know.

And adapting... Definately majority of British veterans are plainly not adapting.

Two days ago a British clan tried a couple traps to me: the usual easy lone prey, nobody in sight... And within 1 minute after tagging, 8 ships spawning close to me.

Problem: they were all 5th rate or bigger... And aside one, all spawned downwind. Is this a Requin issue? Or may be is it a Jamaica "Baywatch" skill issue??

As usual, and in spite of being adversaries (not enemies) in a lot of fights, I must agree.

But (remember, I’m French so there’s always be a “But”)

• I agree that after learning how to use your ship, you can be a concern for attackers or a savior for defenders (when you have time to be so). TIP for defenders: use small ships to learn more rapidly angling, manual sailing, firing, often looking the map for making the right movements, etc. Learn all what is not necessary to be a successfully Requin captain. But a Req captains who knows that (you for instance) will be really more efficient and will save his ship in almost all circumstances, unless bad luck of an enemy player spawning exactly at the right place in a 3rd rate ship or bigger.
• The problem is that 100% unskilled captains can be a threat, sailing all the time in auto mode, retreating at will, without learning, without training, just sailing a xebec. They don’t need any sailing skill, they don’t need any knowledge of boarding, nothing is enough to make a dangerous xebec captain. Just buying the DLC (what I did too, but I don’t use it. I hate easy victories).
• I can see that I am a concern for xebecs captains, because I am the focus as soon as I enter a fight. And somehow, I feel valuated by this “appreciation”. This is not only true for xebecs. I was the focus yesterday in a Brig, fighting 3 Hercules, in spite of the presence so some Dianas, Cerberus and some other frigates… The conclusion of this fight was that Brig is OP, to be nerfed (But may be, I was also the focus of some players because I’m SLRN, and former EDR, an aggravating fact)

All that could be acceptable, if the rewards were at a balanced level. But:

• I got, in the total week-end, 450xp and 1 PvP mark. For this mark, thanks to @vasco who committed suicide in a Bellona just in front of KPR, coming just after a Requin attack made the defense fleet ready for receiving him properly (sorry for inconvenience).
• I used all my Sunday in PvP to farm my 3rd knowledge slot in the Brig. I got it, Yeah! But I had to do a PVE mission to add some xp… Out of that PVE mission, I perhaps did 200xp.
• For keeping my main account able to fight against Requins, I need the help of my two other British accounts, played from a 2nd computer,  for farming resources and gold. Is this fair?

[Licinio Chiavari]

11 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

As usual, and in spite of being adversaries (not enemies) in a lot of fights, I must agree.

Great. It's great being adversaries... but not all out enemies. Much appreciated and reciprocicated.

11 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

But (remember, I’m French so there’s always be a “But”)

I'm italian. We are well used to a lot of "But"-s too.

12 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

• I agree that after learning how to use your ship, you can be a concern for attackers or a savior for defenders (when you have time to be so). TIP for defenders: use small ships to learn more rapidly angling, manual sailing, firing, often looking the map for making the right movements, etc. Learn all what is not necessary to be a successfully Requin captain. But a Req captains who knows that (you for instance) will be really more efficient and will save his ship in almost all circumstances, unless bad luck of an enemy player spawning exactly at the right place in a 3rd rate ship or bigger.

Agreed: as I suggested plenty times. Know Requin and she'll be far less dangerous.
Especially being a very specialized ship: she'll be always a boarder. So you know at the start the fight what she'll do.
On the contrary other ships could be fitted in various ways... and you could understand the "meta" used too late.

Sidenote: majority of losses are not bad luck. It's doing something too daring (aka: plain stupid) being overconfident of being able to kill the prey and run... even when common sense  says it's a simple suicide.

17 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

• The problem is that 100% unskilled captains can be a threat, sailing all the time in auto mode, retreating at will, without learning, without training, just sailing a xebec. They don’t need any sailing skill, they don’t need any knowledge of boarding, nothing is enough to make a dangerous xebec captain. Just buying the DLC (what I did too, but I don’t use it. I hate easy victories).

Unskilled Requin captains are simply annoying. Especially because they rarely use Elite Pirate Refit if even basic one. Without force mod a Requin running with the wind speed is ridicolous low (my main requin atm - Copper, NHR, Elite, AoSH) is barely doing 9 kts at 180° on wind: even a mortar brig loaded can outrun me. Again is a matter of knowing the Requin to know her strenghts and weaknesses; and then exploiting them.

And avoiding a boarding push from an unskilled Requin is so easy to be douable in a lot of different ways (and I'd like to remember: "dont you want fight a boarding?" "Still better idea having something - Barricades+Axes - to be able to withstand one, or more).

21 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

• I can see that I am a concern for xebecs captains, because I am the focus as soon as I enter a fight. And somehow, I feel valuated by this “appreciation”. This is not only true for xebecs. I was the focus yesterday in a Brig, fighting 3 Hercules, in spite of the presence so some Dianas, Cerberus and some other frigates… The conclusion of this fight was that Brig is OP, to be nerfed (But may be, I was also the focus of some players because I’m SLRN, and former EDR, an aggravating fact)

Appreciation is fine and well deserved. Still it's a correct tactic: hitting the weakest first to get rid of him. Or, simply, a 6th rate can be insta-boarded, an Agamennon no. So it's plain logic killing the smaller ships first to then focus the main one.

23 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

All that could be acceptable, if the rewards were at a balanced level. But:

• I got, in the total week-end, 450xp and 1 PvP mark. For this mark, thanks to @vasco who committed suicide in a Bellona just in front of KPR, coming just after a Requin attack made the defense fleet ready for receiving him properly (sorry for inconvenience).
• I used all my Sunday in PvP to farm my 3rd knowledge slot in the Brig. I got it, Yeah! But I had to do a PVE mission to add some xp… Out of that PVE mission, I perhaps did 200xp.
• For keeping my main account able to fight against Requins, I need the help of my two other British accounts, played from a 2nd computer,  for farming resources and gold. Is this fair?

As stated repeatly, also by me, reward system is broken in manyfold ways.

Traders are worth too much in relation with warships. For example. So it's usually far more profitable to sink a trader than trying to get her back to a port to sell the good stuff on it.

There's not balancing between sinking the same ship of a 100hrs M&C or a 4000hrs old vet.
Nor sinking the same ship modded or unmodded, meta or not-meta.

Really think about this: a teak/wo 5/5 v.fast Trincomalee with 15+ mil worth mods +5 shiny books on and one oak/crewspace 1/5 shabby.without mods nor books on.
THEY ARE WORTH EXACTLY THE SAME REWARD.

As I repeated for those calling the "PvPers should attack PvPers" mantra (still, technically, chosing a PvP server EVERY PLAYER STATED HE'S A PVPER) that with this metas and this reward system pro v pro is totally economically broken. Can be sure interesting, and useful to sharp own skills, time to time. But not as main way... being simply impossible to keep the pace of statistically probable losses v maximum gain.

[z4ys]

Just to point out one reason for le requin spam. Some game mechanics really cry for it aka DD.

related to that video :

Edited September 3, 2018 by z4ys

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Just to point out one reason for le requin spam. Some game mechanics really cry for it aka DD.

An Ocean being sunk by a Requin (or 2) is someone not having to, first and foremost, not sail a 1st rate.

[Aquillas]

An unescorted first rate is just a sitting duck. Xebec attacking or other. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Aquillas

[Licinio Chiavari]

40 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

An unescorted first rate is just a sitting duck. Xebec attacking or other. 

Not always 😎

[Fluffy Fishy]

9 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

HMS Surprise and La Renommée are 9-pdr frigates, aren't they ? 🙂 

That will teach me to post in the morning before my head has woken up, I did mean to write 9 or 12 pounder frigates but I only wrote the 12. Always proof read your posts guys

8 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I would like to point out requin has structure/armor comparable to Niagara. That's only marginally higher than privateer ones.

Asking for nerfing HPs even more?

Even Niagara is considerably more built up than a xebec. She is properly framed and planked, especially as she was an American ship, doubled up as was standard of warships of the era. Xebec would struggle to be on comparison to even the basic minimum thickness of 45. Nerfing her HP to represent a more historically accurate single hulled vessel makes perfect sense when looking at the two ships historical builds. Requin should be a pretty amazing sailor with great boarding potential but be a massive glass cannon that struggles to exchange prolonged broadsides with the 6th rates let alone the 5ths.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Fluffy Fishy

[Licinio Chiavari]

10 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Even Niagara is considerably more built up than a xebec. She is properly framed and planked, especially as she was an American ship, doubled up as was standard of warships of the era. Xebec would struggle to be on comparison to even the basic minimum thickness of 45. Nerfing her HP to represent a more historically accurate single hulled vessel makes perfect sense when looking at the two ships historical builds. Requin should be a pretty amazing sailor with great boarding potential but be a massive glass cannon that struggles to exchange prolonged broadsides with the 6th rates let alone the 5ths.

She's already unable to stand a prolonged side to side with some 6th rates. Let alone any 5th rate (in the end she is dead after 2 full carro Surp/Herc broadsides).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Thank you ! 

[Aquillas]

10 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

She's already unable to stand a prolonged side to side with some 6th rates. Let alone any 5th rate (in the end she is dead after 2 full carro Surp/Herc broadsides).

My last fight in a Niagara was vs a Surprise or a Frigate, I don't remember. It lasted more than one hour. But:

This Niag was built to fight, not to run.

I use all the unnecessary skill you don't need in a red sail cancer. 

The same fight in a cancer ship would have been a rage boarding attempt (360 v 240, no necessary skill), then sailing upwind even with hull and sails at 60% (no necessary skill), then sarcastic comments to the Surprise captain (cancer captains have developed this skill widely)

Requin players are so used to no skill fighting that you can't imagine anymore fighting with some disadvantage, compensating with skill.

For your information, Niagara can out-turn any 5th rate frigate, she can angulate to bump broadsides if she is not built to kill traders and run others. But obviously, all that is not necessary to a cancer captain.

Just replace angulating by using a low hull that cannot be hit from distance, just replace long fights by running, just replace skill by sarcasms. Just replace PVP by PVzero.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

We are moving from a credible testing and feedback to "this and this battle went like this" situations and to a finger-pointing attitude to whomever uses the ships.

This is not the way. So take a step back and look to yourselves before you start accusing everyone else of this and that. Thanks fellows.

Now, Combat in NA is so dynamic that, apart from notable exceptions, the same exact encounter almost never happens and different captains will have different approaches.

So, instead of constantly focusing on 1 detail - the push pull kill rage board - or the invasion of OW battles versus AI we should really be providing the feedback about the latest works.

Mainly the crew damage - all open areas have crew - the angle bounces, this is important. More so regarding the last one, test out the rakes across the stern. How do they "feel" ? Can you record some tests ?

[Bluetooth]

1 hour ago, Aquillas said:

My last fight in a Niagara was vs a Surprise or a Frigate, I don't remember. It lasted more than one hour

Thanks for that.

My last fight was in a fireship Hercules.

My friend Pazuzu had a fire ship renomme.

We found a trinc escorting his trader.

We burnt. He burnt.

Much laughing on both sides.

Hope this helps the Requin discussion  to.

😉

[Aquillas]

@Hethwill the Harmless,

Sorry if my last post hurted. But bore is also a feed back. I don't know what about raking a Req. They run upwind too rapidly for that. I got, again, 8 fights with them yesterday, without any variety nor dynamism. Only attempts to board me (all failed) after they did the same with the initially attacked casual player (some worked). I bore surrended the last fight. And left the game. Is this a feedback?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yeah, all good. Staying focused is better.

By the way, you fellows can setup mockup combats and test stuff. Despite rivalries we are all testers, right ?  Cheers.