Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

What about a stock Prince sailing upwind, a stock Renomee sailing at 150°, a stock Surprise at beam?

Trolling a bit aside: Yes we all know . Is what you do 24/7 in KPR in your Requin. We already know what kind of person you are. No suprise here.

Rework/nerf all mods (logical groups, diminishing return, etc...), nerf hard spanish/pirate (or totally rework them) Ok Make pirate not working on Requin. Wrong suggestion. You are not supposed to give a special treatment to just one ship inside the game mechanic to fix some balance issues. This is not wows and ships gimmicks. You need to see the big picture , and understanding a) hards stats can't be changed. b) game mechanics are to be the same to all ships. With this 2 factors in mind suggest things that are possible to change to bring balance.

Buff Requin profile as with built in basic (and nerfed) pirate rig.  So your idea is to make a completely stupid broken OP ship , but now a very cheap one because there is no more the need to fit a pirate rig to fuck the others players. You are in the right path my son.

Result?

No more flying Bellonas, no more uberflying Hercules, no more Requin lo/wo speed capped at close haul, no more Requin flying 15.5 at 130°.

You still didn't understand the problem.  Look here: https://sites.google.com/view/speedtrials/all-chart

The Hercules is the faster ship in game from 60º to 135º. if you change the mods the Hercules will continue to be fastest ship in the game . That doesn't fix the problems with these DLC ships. 

So understanding that hard stats can't be changed  the only solution we have to fix this mess is to work around with the sailing profile. So you could suggest two options:

a) Make the hercules very fast at 90º but only average close to downwind.

b) Make the Hercules average at 90º but very fast at downwind.

 

Now compare The Requin with the others 6th and 7th rates. You will understand that cutter, lynx, privateer and prince don't have any chance against a Requin. The others can try to escape downwind, but wait i said the Prince doesn't have a chance against the Requin. Enter the site and compare Requin and Prince. Now explain this to me and the others why the Prince that is a  schooner  with square sails have worse speed  sailing close downwind  in comparison with the Xebec that only have lateen sails? And you want to buff the sailing profile in the Requin.

Really son continue with the trolling , you are really a special one.

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

11 minutes ago, no one said:

 

I'd avoid too many comments. Only a simpler one.

What special treatment to ANY ship saying to NERF and REWORK ALL MODS?

I said also NO pirate refit on Requin. No sense a Lateen Rig Refit working only for requin. And I UNDERLINED: same AS BASIC AND NERFED PIRATE. So pretty crappy bonus. Simply avoiding her going at 11 kts at broad reach.

Some problems understanding a statement?

Hercules can keep being very fast. Nerf a bit some like done hull/masts/sails/thickness. Very fast and light corvette. Pretty simple.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

what about the poor pavel?

 

Pimp the Pavel.

Prop up the Pickle.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Dibbler

[o Barão]

17 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I'd avoid too many comments. Only a simpler one.

What special treatment to ANY ship saying to NERF and REWORK ALL MODS?

"I said also NO pirate refit on Requin.Congratulations you just found the special treatment . No sense a Lateen Rig Refit working only for requin." And I UNDERLINED: same AS BASIC AND NERFED PIRATE. So pretty crappy bonus. Simply avoiding her going at 11 kts at broad reach.

Some problems understanding a statement?

Hercules can keep being very fast. Nerf a bit some like done hull/masts/sails/thickness. Very fast and light corvette. Pretty simple. So you don't understand  how just one ship being completely broken OP in one aspect will fuck with the balance in game?

Maybe you already understood that Requin can runaway whenever she wants , repair and come back to the fight whenever she wants? Oh wait , i remember. Is what you do. You sail in the Requin 24/7 in KPR killing seals . Of course there isn't any problem, is what you do for living here in NA. What a suprise. Now of course you could say that there is a fact a problem in the gameplay because of this aspect in the Requin. Understanding this is important because the Hercules it is the EXACT SAME THING but in the opposite direction.

 

Understood? 

 

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

6 minutes ago, no one said:

 

Again. IF THE DAMNED PIRATE GOT NERFED AND REQUIN CANT USE ELITE ONE HER MAXIMUM SPEED DOWNWIND WILL BE UNDER 12-13 KTS... SO ANY DAMNED SQUARE SAILED WILL BE ABLE TO RUN WITH WIND (AND REPAIR TOO - NEW TO KITING???)

Or really do you think KITING BELLONAS AT 15+ kts are FINE!??!!?

Who's missing the whole picture!?

[o Barão]

2 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Again. IF THE DAMNED PIRATE GOT NERFED AND REQUIN CANT USE ELITE ONE HER MAXIMUM SPEED DOWNWIND WILL BE UNDER 12-13 KTS... SO ANY DAMNED SQUARE SAILED WILL BE ABLE TO RUN WITH WIND (AND REPAIR TOO - NEW TO KITING???)

Or really do you think KITING BELLONAS AT 15+ kts are FINE!??!!?

Who's missing the whole picture!?

You said and i quote. "Buff Requin profile as with built in basic (and nerfed) pirate rig"

Do i need to repeat?

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, no one said:

You said and i quote. "Buff Requin profile as with built in basic (and nerfed) pirate rig"

Do i need to repeat?

 

BECAUSE AS I STATED PIRATE WILL NOT WORK ON REQUIN (SO YOU CAN BALANCE PIRATE REFIT AROUND OTHER SHIPS THAT HAVE BOTH SQUARE AND SPANKER/JIB! and not the requin that will get only bonus and no malus - need a course about what jib spanker and square sails are?).

BUT WITHOUT A PIRATE REFIT, BASIC AND NERFED, REQUIN PROFILE WILL BE TOO CRAPPY - LIKE BEING UNABLE TO SPEED CAP AT CLOSE HAUL.

Need a review of ships stat!?

 

[HachiRoku]

the problem with the data here is that 2 of the ships here cost nothing to replace. I'm not saying people are sacrificing more DLC ships because I must admit I do not see it much in practice. 

[Licinio Chiavari]

Last Note @no one

Get a Requin and learn how to handle her.

Than hunt alone. Then you'll know really weaknesses and strenghts. Then you'll be able to propose something reasonable and not only NERF NERF NERF only ONE ship.

[o Barão]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

BECAUSE AS I STATED PIRATE WILL NOT WORK ON REQUIN (SO YOU CAN BALANCE PIRATE REFIT AROUND OTHER SHIPS THAT HAVE BOTH SQUARE AND SPANKER/JIB! and not the requin that will get only bonus and no malus - need a course about what jib spanker and square sails are?).

BUT WITHOUT A PIRATE REFIT, BASIC AND NERFED, REQUIN PROFILE WILL BE TOO CRAPPY - LIKE BEING UNABLE TO SPEED CAP AT CLOSE HAUL.

Need a review of ships stat!?

 

"REQUIN PROFILE WILL BE TOO CRAPPY" The Requin profile destroys completely the Prince and you still wants a buff. Amazing your ideas about balancing.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

the problem with the data here is that 2 of the ships here cost nothing to replace. I'm not saying people are sacrificing more DLC ships because I must admit I do not see it much in practice. 

You know sir, that the real cost are Mods (AGAIN) and so DLC or not, people dont want to lose theirs

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, no one said:

"REQUIN PROFILE WILL BE TOO CRAPPY" The Requin profile destroys completely the Prince and you still wants a buff. Amazing your ideas about balancing.

You know that Prince could run downwind easily from Requin... IF THAT DAMNED SHIP WILL NOT USE ELITE PIRATE, RIGHT?

[o Barão]

Just now, Licinio Chiavari said:

Last Note @no one

Get a Requin and learn how to handle her.

Than hunt alone. Then you'll know really weaknesses and strenghts. Then you'll be able to propose something reasonable and not only NERF NERF NERF only ONE ship.

Just for your information. i have the Requin and i sail alone. And no i don't sail to capital waters to chase seals. I am where to play a good game , not to fuck the newbies and  make them quit playing the game.

[o Barão]

2 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

You know that Prince could run downwind easily from Requin... IF THAT DAMNED SHIP WILL NOT USE ELITE PIRATE, RIGHT?

The Requin already destroys the Prince without mods. Are you blind in reading the stats?

https://sites.google.com/view/speedtrials/all-chart

[HachiRoku]

13 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

You know sir, that the real cost are Mods (AGAIN) and so DLC or not, people dont want to lose theirs

Thats good. Mods being expensive is something that is actually good for the gameplay. 

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Thats good. Mods being expensive is something that is actually good for the gameplay. 

But they make wider gap between vets and not.

And make ship balance more difficult (if OP like some).

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

But they make wider gap between vets and not.

And make ship balance more difficult (if OP like some).

Well first of all its not really like that. Mods do not really make the difference between seal clubbing. Repair mods might go to far but repair mods are only a product of multi repairs in battle being very OP. That is where the gap really is. Watch sealclubbing videos and you will see over the course of a long battle with many good repair mods vets will repair 50% more of a ship over seals. That gives them a 50% hp advantage in a battle if there are enough repair cycles to be fair. What other mod gives you a 50% combat advantage?

[Licinio Chiavari]

18 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Well first of all its not really like that. Mods do not really make the difference between seal clubbing. Repair mods might go to far but repair mods are only a product of multi repairs in battle being very OP. That is where the gap really is. Watch sealclubbing videos and you will see over the course of a long battle with many good repair mods vets will repair 50% more of a ship over seals. That gives them a 50% hp advantage in a battle if there are enough repair cycles to be fair. What other mod gives you a 50% combat advantage?

Super speed ships, from MODS first and foremost, is what allow kiting... that allows repairs.

[Palatinose]

7 hours ago, Le Raf Boom said:

The data shows how bad those 5th rates perform: L'Hermione, Renommee, Frigate, Essex etc. Are you planning on adjusting these ships?

Totally +1

Add the Surprise. Belle Poule isn't much better either. What do they all have in common: weak masts. 

Everybody talks about Requin and Herc and mods. To me these two ships are performing well without good mods. Light frigates are only sailable competetively with elite mods or as 4/5+ versions. That's the big difference.

Two lighter frigates are an exception from the general mesaage "the bigger the vessel, the higher the survivability". It's the P-Frig and the LGV Refit. Both are dedicated OW trader hunters (same goes for Prince perhaps? @z4ys), making them vessels in which one sails large distances, encounters only rarely enemies and usually wins these fights. 

What about Niagara, RSH, Mercury and Snow? Compared to Herc and Requin they're obviously NAFING! (Well let's wait for more hard data some days after the buff, I've seen more Snows again recently - hey @Fouchet welcome back) That's only concerning the p2w Nassau Patrol btw. 

@admin Please buff frigates, make OW an enjoyable and diverse place again. And above all please nerf (better: remove entirely) the pirate and spanish rig refits. These things are just disgusting and the reason for many (unneccesary) problems.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Palatinose

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

@admin Please buff frigates, make OW an enjoyable and diverse place again. And above all please nerf (better: remove entirely) the pirate and spanish rig refits. These things are just disgusting and the reason for many (unneccesary) problems.

Frigates have all a pretty similar sailing profil so only broadside weight counts and the possibility to put mods that make those ships above average (turnrate bouncy hull etc).

Prince has in my opinion such good stats because only experienced players used it and it can do the same as requin sail away when things get worse.

[Palatinose]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Frigates have all a pretty similar sailing profil so only broadside weight counts and the possibility to put mods that make those ships above average (turnrate bouncy hull etc).

All frigates differ in many aspects imo. Even without mods. That's what makes this class the most interesting - always has.

Thx for the prince feedback.

[o Barão]

12 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Frigates have all a pretty similar sailing profil so only broadside weight counts and the possibility to put mods that make those ships above average (turnrate bouncy hull etc).

Prince has in my opinion such good stats because only experienced players used it and it can do the same as requin sail away when things get worse.

One possible suggestion to balance the Requin is to buff the Prince Stats.  Make this ship that is available to all fast and powerful enough to be the Requin Nemesis.

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

All frigates differ in many aspects imo. Even without mods. That's what makes this class the most interesting - always has.

Green = essex / Red = endy

looking at the curves what 5th rates have in common are the the profils they differ a bit but not as much as between shallow ships (due to schooners and most ships there have a speical point in the profil). The real difference are turn rate + crew + firepower. Essex is almost as good as the endy regarding sailing profil. but endy has chasers, has bigger guns. So why sail an essex when you could sail an endy? All ships that dont follow a current meta are not sailed.

 

Remember Surprise. Was the best upwind square rigger before the sail physic change. After that change endy got the king but is still almost equal. So why sail a surprise. Endy has bigger guns stronger masts more and more crew (dd meta). So why chose surprise over endy?

[z4ys]

9 minutes ago, no one said:

One possible suggestion to balance the Requin is to buff the Prince Stats.  Make this ship that is available to all fast and powerful enough to be the Requin Nemesis.

my first suggestion regarding requin was to make hull thickness equal or less than the prince.

Quote

Side thickness - would reduce it to prince (maybe 1-2 cm less) and see if its better

And i still think requin would be much better balanced without p rig. But any ship would be better balanced without force mods.

That would allow prince and the privateer to get requin chaser/killer and leave only a small window to disengage. Should a requin be soloed. Hell now its a 250 crew ship. But i like to remember the prince is already a good ship (looking at stats by admin) buffing her would make her even better.

Yellow = requin / blue = prince / red privateer

[Palatinose]

44 minutes ago, z4ys said:

The real difference are turn rate + crew + firepower.

Aye. Frigates are feeling. I currently sail Essex. She tacks awesome. Gunnery 12 pds and 18 pds medium. A dream of a reload. But she's a brawler not a hunter. 

Endy fights on distance and uses it's high calibre. The turn rate (esp. considering her length) is not as good as the Trincs' or most other frigs. Endy is and was always something completely different than the Surp. 

Every frigate has it's use. Well, had