Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Hans the Hawk]

Devs thought going "pay to win" would save game. instead it's killing it. 

Requin can still sail away upwind at 50% sails , and let's be honest it's nearly impossible to hit its sails anyway.

I'm playing less as a result of this stupid "No skill , just money" ship., and there are 2 factors involved in this .

1. Less enemies in ships that can actually be fought properly, with a realistic chance of sinking it.

2. Less friends playing the game now as a result of 1.

Shame

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The upwind efficiency is not Xebec privilege. Actually a well built Privateer can go down to 35% sails ( depending which canvas are hit ) and still extend from most.

We players tested the chain versus the xebec sails. We recorded a ton of tests and ... no conclusion. The chain rips through the canvas away from the masts, so it is not only near the pole that it does damage. But you are right, something is odd on some hits.

What makes the ship a monster is not the sailing profile. Many raiders were already using schooners, big and small, to terrorize the poor traders. What makes it a monster is that it can go toe to toe, given closure space, with any cruiser frigate and even some high board heavy frigates.

Like any close haul specialist ship she has the benefit of initiative. Deciding when to continue to press the attack or retreating without danger of pursuit.

Other issues were identified by players, and situations recorded to establish a point of comparison, such as angling, structural strength, crew damage and so on.

So the question is. Is it because it has issues or is it because it is a DLC ship ? Because issues will be solved.

[Vinnie]

Not that I expect it to matter much, but the only way I can impact this discussion is to vote with my feet and back away from the game till the Le Requin is balanced against the rest of the game.  I've wasted too much time chasing these things around.  A silly, gratuitous, a-historical "addition" to the game.  There must have been better ways to raise funds than to add a functionally invulnerable ship to the game.  To quote the game's own advertising description;  "Large crew allows you board enemies with confidence, and lateen sails profiles will help you escape from the most heated situations." 

[Hullabaloo]

I totally agree, unfortunately it will be along wait: To quote admin:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance). 

It's here to stay, they can't fix this one. Most of the people I had been playing with have uninstalled already.

I get slated cos I keep repeating this in chat and in the forums and am told I am talking nonsense: There is consensus that the DLC has broken the game, but many have been slow to realise that this is permanent.

[Hullabaloo]

31 minutes ago, Hullabaloo said:

I totally agree, unfortunately it will be along wait: To quote admin:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance). 

It's here to stay, they can't fix this one. Most of the people I had been playing with have uninstalled already.

I get slated cos I keep repeating this in chat and in the forums and am told I am talking nonsense: There is consensus that the DLC has broken the game, but many have been slow to realise that this is permanent.

Please, can someone tell me I have got this wrong? Please? PLEEEEEASE!

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hullabaloo
typo

[Dibbler (Retired)]

 When fighting the Req something seems wrong with sail hits,  chain seems to fly through the sails and do no damage sometimes. Guess is a hitbox issue?

 Both herc and Req when loaded out with carro's are to powerful compared to other ships in shallows, perhaps lowering class of carro's would even up some ground.

 The crew levels ae also an issue, especially crew space, hammock, light ship hammock Req builds which provides an insane crew amount. Perhaps making Req a 5th rate like the Hercules would partially solve this as would mean light ship hammocks no longer used.

 Lastly Port battles are a bit of a joke now, so perhaps exclude the DLC from RvR especially shallow ports. Shallow port battles are where newer players can participate in RvR and now is not an option unless you have DLC.

I would also make Nassau Patrol area max 6th rates and move Req to 5th rate to again allow newer players to take part in Nassau patrol.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dibbler

[SeamanStaines]

Just my opinion. This ship has ruined the game. Virtually all the PVP is against Requin's and if you don't sail one you cannot catch them. The fact that they are over-crewed means no other cutter has a chance as it will be boarded. So all other small ships are now redundant.  In fact yesterday I saw a Santi boarded by Requins (how absurd is that)! The result is the game has become very dull for many except for the Requin raider fraternity.

The fact that they are issued free if you buy the add-on makes them more destructive to the game as a whole. Where is the risk of loss if next day you can redeem one? Why would you sail anything else that needs crafting?

Soon you might as well rename it Requin Action as that is the only ship you will routinely see. What happened to the glory days of Trafalgar's? What happened to historical accuracy? I hate to see the game go downhill so rapidly.

 

[Christiaen Stelling]

Good afternoon everyone!

I'd like to share my experiences on Le Requin with you from the past 3 days;

We (Dutch nation) have encountered several players in Le Requins, sometimes to no avail of catching them but other times easily taken out by SoLs. A good example of this would be the following battle: 

In this battle we kept the Le Requin at bay and sank her from a great distance with the Bellona's Long Guns.

I do not think the ship is overpowered at all as she sinks quite easily, however I think the ship does need some tuning in regards to sail damage as that is quite finnicky. Another thing I found is that the 32.Pd Carros may be a bit overkill it might be beneficial to the game to change it to 24.Pd Carros as a max (Eventhough the ship can be dealt with as is). 

Also another thank you to @Banished Privateer, @Sir Hethwill the RedDuke and crew for this amazing battle and display of skill on either side!

 

- Abraham

Edited August 9, 2018 by Abraham van Riebeeck

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

@Abraham van Riebeeck

Got a Xebec shot from under me not long ago by a Bellona that, by luck or pure pro aim, put 14 leaks into me. Granted, it is not the norm but rather the exception that proves the rule.

The Xebec commanded by @z4ys was extremely focused and you guys made the right call. We were gambling on switching the targets when the Buc came racing down, and mistakes were made. Or maybe not, it became a choice of the lesser evil.

But..

The puzzle is broken and if you care to watch many battles being recorded and streamed out there the puzzle is always solved by - rush, glue to the bow, angled, out DPS or use the sail force to push, and kill.

Some players still retain a sim approach to the battles, others just wish for a infallible method of scoring. All that matters is having fun with what drove you to NA.

"Every 'death' annoys me. Not because of loss but because I failed"

GG m8

[Licinio Chiavari]

10 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

I totally agree, unfortunately it will be along wait: To quote admin:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance). 

It's here to stay, they can't fix this one. Most of the people I had been playing with have uninstalled already.

I get slated cos I keep repeating this in chat and in the forums and am told I am talking nonsense: There is consensus that the DLC has broken the game, but many have been slow to realise that this is permanent.

Aside some small tweak on Requin (move her to 5th, ban from PBs and so in) the problem with her arent her stats: it is how pirate refit works on her.

There's plenty issues (in the past: wasas star destroyers, now Requin but also 14+ evinrood powered Bellonas).

But majority of these are created by mods/books and overstacking of them.

Requin, as she is now, is not the disease: it's the (strong for sure) symptom.

The disease (a long lasting one with enormous consequencies in game balance and interest in it especially by casuals/new players) are mods/books/woods stat.

[Johnny Rotten]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Aside some small tweak on Requin (move her to 5th, ban from PBs and so in) the problem with her arent her stats: it is how pirate refit works on her.

Requin, as she is now, is not the disease: it's the (strong for sure) symptom.

This, Pirate Elite and Spanish Elite rigs are OP and make most ships too fast for their builds.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Johnny Rotten said:

This, Pirate Elite and Spanish Elite rigs are OP and make most ships too fast for their builds.

Don't you dare touch my Bellona, my Inger, my Buc...my fun!!!!! ! 🙉...

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, SeamanStaines said:

In fact yesterday I saw a Santi boarded by Requins (how absurd is that)!

 

I'd like to hear same words, when Surprises in the past and Hercules now, do the same.

Or if I stern camp a Bellona on Requin I am a P2W player, but if I do the same on an Hercules I am a pro?

[Thomas Boyle]

I don't think that developers accidentally released DLC with OP ships which drops everyday. I hope it's not like that because it's easy to foresee the balance will be obviously broken.

What's changed? Unpunished annihilation of beginners. Stupid worthless chases(no pvp). Community has become more toxic. Increasing amount of insult because of DLC. "Nice" economy of crafting these ships: everyday, any rare wood type, no shipyard. I've not taken part in PBs yet but i read that PB is ruined.

i think xebecs damage model has issues (hull + sails).

I've recently returned to the game after 1,5 year of an abandon. So may be i'm wrong.

[SeamanStaines]

40 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I'd like to hear same words, when Surprises in the past and Hercules now, do the same.

Or if I stern camp a Bellona on Requin I am a P2W player, but if I do the same on an Hercules I am a pro?

I don't mean in the context of a game, I mean in a RL context. Its always been absurd that small ships could take out SOL. The musket volleys alone would probably destroy a Requin. But this has always been the case but the Requin with its large crew is now the ship of choice for the reasons stated in the previous post and now we if you want PVP its most likely going to be against Requins.

[admin]

13 minutes ago, SeamanStaines said:

I mean in a RL context. Its always been absurd that small ships could take out SOL. The musket volleys alone would probably destroy a Requin. But this has always been the case but the Requin with its large crew is now the ship of choice for the reasons stated in the previous post and now we if you want PVP its most likely going to be against Requins.

RL context: it could have happened and happened

99 light galleys vs SOL + escorts

6 days later

61 light galley vs ship of the line + 6 frigates

[z4ys]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

 

looks similar

 

Xebec pre and after hotfix pirate rig speed.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by z4ys

[Vinnie]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

RL context: it could have happened and happened

99 light galleys vs SOL + escorts

6 days later

61 light galley vs ship of the line + 6 frigates

 

[Vinnie]

Admin - your examples use 66 and 99 galleys against a handful of square-riggers in a boarding action to illustrate your point.  That justifies this addition to the game as realism? 

I think there is some serious post-mistake rationalism going on here.

 

Also, I note that these actions were in >very< confined waters.  In fact, looks like an anchorage.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Also note that ships were not at Full sails, nor would they sharp corner the wind at Full sails. Alas, we do "fly" the wind at all times, including fierce battle, at Full.

Maybe that's why they are sailing that slow in a confined space. We have, yet, nothing like that in NA.

[admin]

20 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Admin - your examples use 66 and 99 galleys against a handful of square-riggers in a boarding action to illustrate your point.  That justifies this addition to the game as realism? 

Those examples address the following concerns raised by captain @SeamanStaines

He said

• it was always absurd that a light ship can take out a SOL
• that SOL musket volleys would destroy a xebec
• Questionable from the RL context

We do not say that his statement are not true. We merely claim that events opposite to his statement ALSO happened in real life and can ALSO happen in game. The beauty of NA battle design shows that you can take ANY naval battle happening from 1650 until 1830 and find almost the same outcome in our game, just like @z4ys demonstrated in his post. You just see it more often in NA because average captain in NA sees 1000x more battles than any captain in history = thats why you see rare cases often. How many battles Nelson participated in? Maybe 20?  Did you know that one of those battles was with a BEAR? He fought a bear and won.



 

[admin]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

 Did you know that one of those battles was with a BEAR? He fought a bear and won.

For those who did not know

Nelson fighting a Bear

[Jean Ribault]

DLC bears, let's have it !

[Vinnie]

Bah - That was while he had both arms.  Easy.  Now, if it were after he had lost the one...  

[Bluetooth]

.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Crow