Looking for PVP in my trinco

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Jubsies opinions on Patrol zones are as such.

They suck.

Suggestion:
Same ROE as OW fights. Same close timer as OW fights. No circle. Basically exactly the same thing as a OW fight which you can escape.

The only difference being that damage done in the fights within the zone accumulate towards mission reward. Hell why isn't there more PVP missions that are global without zones?
The incentive to fight should be the reward and the reward alone.

yeah exactly lol. Instead of making patrols a part of OW they're their own little thing almost completely uninvolved and separate from the rest of the game. Almost like their only function is to fund people with marks, like that's all the game is about now.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[jodgi]

22 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Looking for solo PvP?  It doesn't exist.  

Well, ok.

The only thing I've done since they gave us patrol zones, apart from some port clicking and player trading for rare books, is solo PVP in the zones. I don't play all the time but when I have time I'm there and i go all alone. I see others going in alone as well. Met rediii there all alone. You must purposely avoid the zones or only go in with a bunch of friends?

Patrol missions is the last stand of solo-pvp in NA.

14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I love the word "meaningful". I bet meaningful for me can be the complete opposite for someone else.

Hehe, "meaningful" has been hijacked by the sandboxers. Look at hachi, or me for that matter, we're done with all the lower tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs that the sandboxers call "meaning", and all we care about are challenging and therefore fun fights. That is the pinnacle. That's true meaning and self-actualization when you're past the "suspension of disbelief" that the lower rungs of eco and loss provide. It's perfectly fine if you like that stuff, just know you haven't reached nirvana yet. (Not directed at z4ys, to be abundantly clear)

9 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

yeah exactly lol. Instead of making patrols a part of OW they're their own little thing almost completely uninvolved and separate from the rest of the game. Almost like their only function is to fund people with marks, like that's all the game is about now.

"Making patrols a part of OW" sure is a nice dream. It'd be wonderful if it happened. I don't think it ever will happen, all the "meaning" of OW is dead set against it succeeding. I would be so happy if I was proven wrong, so go ahead and do it.

It sure is settling for less going to the gank zones hoping for a somewhat equal fight as far as numbers and BR is concerned. I'm not content hitting on ppl in or around the reinforcement zones, or sailing for hours in the faint hope I might tumble upon someone. I don't roleplay, RAKERS even had that as part of the recruitment: "No roleplay". So, yea, it really is settling for less, but I'm quite happy going to the zones knowing I will find warm bodies in fighting ships. That is the main function of the circles; A guaranteed fight within reasonable time. Secondly there is the marks farming opportunity even if you lose.

Yes, @Sir Texas Sir, I shed a tear for the shelving of Legends every day. But now I'm here trying to carve out a little corner in NA that fits me. BR limited patrol missions or <gasp> duel zones would make me go rock hard. I just want fun fights and don't care a hoot about anything else.

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Thing with circle is...

... what would make it different from a normal OW engagement then ?!...

 

I thought the patrols were supposed to encourage pvpers vs pvpers. It doesnt. It is a gank fest with 30 min join timer. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

 patrols were supposed to encourage pvp

That is the correct quote.

Sail with your friends and even if you are new to the game and always been affraid of pvp, fear not. Have a taste of blood. Rewards are worth it.

Sorry to burst it, but zones were not tailored for endgame pros, but for everyone, from day zero to hour 5000.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry to burst it, but zones were not tailored for endgame pros

Sorry to burst it, but who piles into the zones with lineship dread fleets?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Sorry to burst it, but who piles into the zones with lineship dread fleets?

Anyone that can !? 😮 

Hence we can only improve it to fit everyone.

 

[Liq]

10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

That is the correct quote.

Sail with your friends and even if you are new to the game and always been affraid of pvp, fear not. Have a taste of blood. Rewards are worth it.

Sorry to burst it, but zones were not tailored for endgame pros, but for everyone, from day zero to hour 5000.

"For everyone"

Clearly not for solo players, be it master Doran himself in his trinc , or average joe player after work with an hour or two to play

Battles being open for half an hour without any kind of balancer favor gank fleets massively. Dont even bother to go there solo in a frigate. Probability of your battles being seen in 30 min by a fleet of lineships is very high.

So easily fixable, to make it enjoyable for everyone. Let big lineships fleets fight each other; BUT also let frigate captains fight each other in a smaller battle.

[jodgi]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Anyone that can !?

The super rich, clanned up and Xk hour players are more able to than guys at the opposite side of the continuum.

I've fought for the new guy since 2015, before OW was even a thing, I'm super consistent.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

That's right and a good one and been presented a few times, the need for a balancer so it turns into a quasi-equal match instead of just another form of gank, true enough.

Keep it open with forced balancer sounds good.

BTW jodgi, just echoing the idea behind the zones. I also think they aren't working. Been in the Nassau Patrol times enough to know it.

Majority will take the 100% chances of winning over the 50/50 of a balanced fight.  

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Keep it open with forced balancer sounds good.

It sure does!

The only people it would hurt are those in big groups with or without lineships inside the circle. And those special few who want to to fight and win 2v5 or worse because of mod met...ummm skill. Forgive me for not having the needs of these people front and center. 

[Capt Jubal Early]

Just throwing it out there you all talk about solo gameplay yet you use alts to the effect of multiple players so you can support your one combat character.

 

[jodgi]

12 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Majority will take the 100% chances of winning over the 50/50 of a balanced fight.

That is the sandbox way and I completely understand some people place great value on stuff like this ("If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck" - this Steinbeck paraphrase or misrepresentation has been quoted on these forums many, many times).

How bad can it be if a tiny circle on the OW is based on other ideals?

[Navalus Magnus]

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

No. They just had a role to perform. To engage the enemy wherever it could be found and bring it into submission, by sinking or capturing the vessel or ship.

 

But thier duty was also to safe thier ships if they knew they couldn't win.

[Navalus Magnus]

2 hours ago, vazco said:

we'll see, hard to tell  If you want, we could have a 1 vs 1 fight without sinking, where I could tell you what you could improve. I don't need PvP marks, just a fight  

Would be a pleasure!

I've already written you ingame.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

But thier duty was also to safe thier ships if they knew they couldn't win.

Overpowering the enemy was above saving the ship. Hence why after action reports from both sides were honest. To make sure it was not a needless situation.

( a single frigate saved the jamaica convoy by attacking a yank fleet during 1812. She was lost but her sacrifice was acknowledge as heroic. captain knew the odds, captain knew his duty )

Historical is binary. Either have the entire cake, or try to have as much as the cake as possible. No slicing what fits.

[jodgi]

5 hours ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Just throwing it out there you all talk about solo gameplay yet you use alts to the effect of multiple players so you can support your one combat character.

Guilty as charged but completely shameless.

I'm weird that way. When dealing with OW eco activities I'll do anything to accelerate, avoid or bypass. I'm scumbagging as hard as I can, you could say. To me it's only a fun-tax or penalty laps.

When it comes to fighting I'm the complete opposite, then I want maximum challenge. In early 2016 I sailed downwind of trincos in frigates and surprises in an attempt to get a fight with bad odds (We had long join timers then so everyone assumed I had the RAKERS hiding in port or behind the antilles islands, we didn't cheese like that but everyone else did, so...). I've never joined the high BR side of a patrol fight. I don't go to reinforcement zones to pick on newer players. If presented with a choice I'll always want to fight a ship somewhat more potent than mine (or equal) rather than going for an easy fight against a lesser ship. I want to learn and get better and picking on inferior ships or dragnet fishing in gank groups completely deprives me of any learning experience. This is the only reason I play any game. I'm nowhere near the best we have, but I want to get better and I relish finding myself in a hard fight to facilitate just that.

I'm no saint, I will tag anything that moves in this pvp deprived OW, but unlucky guys have to sail infront of me for that to happen.

Edited May 11, 2018 by jodgi

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Well, ok.

The only thing I've done since they gave us patrol zones, apart from some port clicking and player trading for rare books, is solo PVP in the zones. I don't play all the time but when I have time I'm there and i go all alone. I see others going in alone as well. Met rediii there all alone. You must purposely avoid the zones or only go in with a bunch of friends?

Patrol missions is the last stand of solo-pvp in NA.

The only zone I've been able to successfully hunt in is the shallow zone.  Every time I've gone into the other ones I just end up getting gang banged by late joiners.

The only Solo PvP I've been really able to do is mission jumping and ganking traders outside capitals.  Dealing with the AI reinforcements is a joke.

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, Christendom said:

The only zone I've been able to successfully hunt in is the shallow zone.  Every time I've gone into the other ones I just end up getting gang banged by late joiners.

The only Solo PvP I've been really able to do is mission jumping and ganking traders outside capitals.  Dealing with the AI reinforcements is a joke.

My heart goes out to you!

I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Yeah i have a alt to but i dont scream for solo content  Its a team game. I like that its the best feature.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

I thought the patrols were supposed to encourage pvpers vs pvpers. It doesnt. It is a gank fest with 30 min join timer. 

Sadly most of the content encourages ganking fights in this game.  I'm also going to be flat blunt about this, this is not a solo game, so folks need to remember that.  If you want nice little solo fights than go find a corneer where all the solo fights can be done.  It's not hard to tell others hay lets all meet at this port on this day at this time and do friendly solo 1 vs 1.  Jumping some noobs little ship in green zone is not that 1 vs 1 fights.  It's just that ganking some one unprepared and getting the easy kill no matter how folks try to say it's "meaningful PvP."   Look folks i used that word too.

4 hours ago, jodgi said:

Sorry to burst it, but who piles into the zones with lineship dread fleets?

BR caps in those zones would really help. I have avoided the deep water zones cause I would love to go in a 5-4 rate and have fun, but ever time I gone in a certain clan rolls in with 4th-1st rates in a large group steam rolling any small groups or solo players.  Put a cap on the highest ship brought in and make them actually about fighting in 5th through maybe 3rd rates max and you will prob see some more even fights.  You still get the ganked fights, but you won't see the SOL steam roll.  Remember this coming from some one that was in a clan on global that use to show up in nothing but 1st rates, but we where also almost always out number too as to why we used them, but it did not get us "MEANINGFUL FIGHTS."

1 hour ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Yeah i have a alt to but i dont scream for solo content  Its a team game. I like that its the best feature.

These guys got to get it out of there head this is an a SOLO game for the most part, and there is no such thing as a fair fight in real life.  So if they want arranged even fights with like BR they need to do that arranged them and meet up with other teams some where and not go out expecting to find it on the OW.

 

[Navalus Magnus]

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Overpowering the enemy was above saving the ship. 

Yes but no sane frigate captain would attack a fleet of 74‘s or even 1st rates alone - that‘s the scenario you face in these wonderful patrol zones!

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

a single frigate saved the jamaica convoy by attacking a yank fleet during 1812. She was lost but her sacrifice was acknowledge as heroic.

Would that we had such amazing content!

But again: There is no such context inside the patrol zones!

There‘s just a stupid brawl and die for marks context!

And again: I doubt that an insane captain who sails headlong into his ship’s doom for the sake of nothing would get a single mark / coin or whatever as a reward!

On the contrary: If he hasn‘t already been ripped into pieces during the battle he would need to justify his deeds in front of a court or war council!

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

These guys got to get it out of there head...

<shrugs> You're not the boss of me.

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

and there is no such thing as a fair fight in real life. 

Except in sports. Yes, I approach this as a sport. Y'all can go win the war and enjoy lopsided ganks until the cows come home, I'm benevolent enough to grant you access to your fav type of content in 99% of the map. How can the (prolly less than) 1% of real-estate out of the entire map and the ROE within cause such controversy for those who want to stick to the 99% part? (not necessarily directed at Tex, think of it as a rhetorical question)

 

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

So if they want arranged even fights with like BR they need to do that arranged them and meet up with other teams some where

I've done that plenty. Puchu, Tommy Shelby, Havelock, palatinose and others have done that plenty. I saw hachi on global today trying to set it up. It gets tiring trying to find suitable ships in relative proximity. admin has hinted at the tournaments from Legends will make it's appearance in OW some day, so many of us will be on that like flies on a turd.

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

and not go out expecting to find it on the OW.

We don't expect that from the OW. We wish for it within that tiny circle, we don't want to force it on anyone, never! We don't wish to dictate how anyone plays, that would be rude.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

6 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

But thier duty was also to safe thier ships if they knew they couldn't win.

 oh yeah. Mostly by making sure they would win. You know... like Monmouth's commander Gardiner request to Robert Cackett to nail the ensign to the mizzen and making sure he'd shoot any hand trying to pull it out. In my opinion crazy bravado. That was a 64 gun 24 pounder facing a 80 gun 42 pounder. 

How could he know he wouldn't win ? Meta ? For sure they knew about the enemy ships, after all intelligence was important for survival. But we also have that, just the modules and some perks are unknown until used. Very much like them, they only knew enough.

In the end, Gardiner wanted that fight. That made the difference. He really wanted it and made sure his ship would win. Lady luck helped, but we do count on her as well.

* sips the cider * All good m8, good discussion

 

[NethrosDefectus]

@HachiRoku I'm always happy to 1v1 you in my Trinc, however previous experience has shown that I probably wouldn't provide much content for you

[Navalus Magnus]

18 hours ago, Hethwill said:

 oh yeah. Mostly by making sure they would win. You know... like Monmouth's commander Gardiner request to Robert Cackett to nail the ensign to the mizzen and making sure he'd shoot any hand trying to pull it out. In my opinion crazy bravado. That was a 64 gun 24 pounder facing a 80 gun 42 pounder. 

How could he know he wouldn't win ? Meta ? For sure they knew about the enemy ships, after all intelligence was important for survival. But we also have that, just the modules and some perks are unknown until used. Very much like them, they only knew enough.

In the end, Gardiner wanted that fight. That made the difference. He really wanted it and made sure his ship would win. Lady luck helped, but we do count on her as well.

* sips the cider * All good m8, good discussion

 

Ok, last attempt - I promise! 😉

I‘m not speaking of one on one engagements!

If this captain would have sailed his 64 in our NA patrol zone he rather would have faced four 1st rates and six 74s than one 80 gun ship.

I bet he would have tried to escape if he saw a chance.

What do you think?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Navalus Magnus