Tutorial feedback 2

[Sir Texas Sir]

Ok I been trying this all day and keep getting destroyed if I try boarding cause the defence mods on the AI are to strong.  I loose on a defence when they attack big time evne though we have equal or I have more crew.  Muskets do nothing hardly against a defence, same with grenades.  What the hell are you guys doing to win these boards to quick?   I know I"m not some elite player and call myself pretty much an average player, but I should be taking all day to do something that should be average players knowledge and skills. I mean i can kill three players in a PvP before of about the same range ships, but that is players.  I'm all ready frustrated and don't even want to try this again.   This should not be in the tutorial. I don't mind having an epic PvP Mission for rewards, but this shouldn't be for new players at all.

Feel like I wasted most my day cause of bad luck and apparently skill.  I had no problem doing the other parts and the endurance one, but this last part is freaking OP as hell.   

[Cecil Selous]

Finally did it. But I played it very safe. I chained one and started to sail away. Then I started operation demast but because I was too scared to get too close to the first one following me I mostly was too far away to penetrate their masts  . What I really learned again is that our cannons are too accurate - In the end I had about 230 mast hits. after I got the hang of the Cerb I managed to get 4 to 5 hits every broadside (from a rather long distance). So my main tactic was to destroy one mast while I kited them and then I reduced the distance to use single shot for the remaining masts. The next step was to grape the hulks down a bit and board them. I captured the second one with 10 min left on the clock. I used all repairs and a lot of rum, since you lose a lot of men to simple hull hits.

If you don't play it like a pussy as I did, you can surely demast them very quick in close quarters or even rake them repeatedly. But I just wanted to be sure to pass the exam.

My conclusion is somewhat similar to others. You don't really learn to fight but kiting and avoiding the enemy. I find this exam is more a pain in the ass and kinda annoying. In my first try I sunk while both of them were demasted but they still kind of covered each other. Bad for me and after one hour you not really want to do it again immediately.

I get it that to uphold the final exam character it has to be difficult but I don't know if this is the right way.

 

I noticed something during the endurance challenge: You get a tool tip that tells you about angling to avoid damage. I had the feeling that angling in this case, with brig vs brig often doesn't help. Maybe change the ships to the cerberus (player and AI) with better angling characteristics.

[Trino]

The problem i see: the tutorial rewards are promoting alts. Doing the tutorial, get rewards, delete character and repeat is probably the best per hour income of the game. If i remeber right you get 1500 rig and hull repairs, 1 x rattlesnake notw, 1x hercules note, 1x naval clock. I guess of this rewards on the market will be around 10 mio, far more in the first time ... for about 2 hours (lesser with practice) of PVE ... It would be even a good method to get repairs to a far away harbor, i sailed often more hours to supply an outpost with (lesser) repairs and tutorial has no risk to lose sth.

I seriously suggest to make tutorial repeatable (incl. rewards) for everyone, reduce amount of repairs you get and reduce stats of naval clock to +2,5 % speed. This will also make it possible to get the attention of recruiting clans more than only one time (what if its 4 oclock in the morning if you pass the final exam and no clan in your time zone is online.).

[ObiQuiet]

Minor item I didn't see mentioned before... the tutoral starts with a nice explanation of the terms port, starboard, bow and stern, but these aren't used in the game UI.  I hope this means that they will someday replace Left, Rigt, Front and Back.   I think that would be great!

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

12 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

If so it will need a few stat tweaks as it is the most powerful shallow draft ship right now.

Shhh!

12 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Listening to clan members struggle with the tutorial has given me great pleasure.

Same feeling here. Took me a while and granted was not the first in my clan but was not close to being the last so feel real proud about it now.

[Vile Executioner]

8 hours ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

I love you more and more everyday admin. You speak what comes from my mind daily

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

(But yea I also don't like to read the texts on the right.)

Was thinking the same. Reading text on the left side of the monitor seems to be easier/more comfortable.

 

[Tac]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Ok I been trying this all day and keep getting destroyed if I try boarding cause the defence mods on the AI are to strong.  I loose on a defence when they attack big time evne though we have equal or I have more crew.  Muskets do nothing hardly against a defence, same with grenades.  What the hell are you guys doing to win these boards to quick?   I know I"m not some elite player and call myself pretty much an average player, but I should be taking all day to do something that should be average players knowledge and skills. I mean i can kill three players in a PvP before of about the same range ships, but that is players.  I'm all ready frustrated and don't even want to try this again.   This should not be in the tutorial. I don't mind having an epic PvP Mission for rewards, but this shouldn't be for new players at all.

Feel like I wasted most my day cause of bad luck and apparently skill.  I had no problem doing the other parts and the endurance one, but this last part is freaking OP as hell.   

Yea it seems boarding cannons is best against defence now.

[Tac]

Maybe for the final exam you could implement a 3 tier system of gold silver and bronze you can pass bronze but receive a lot less as a reward but still pass I’m pretty sure a lot of noobs will still push for gold.

[admin]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Feel like I wasted most my day cause of bad luck and apparently skill.  I had no problem doing the other parts and the endurance one, but this last part is freaking OP as hell.   

Lets see if this will work first before thinking if something is wrong with that exam

Use this tactic. (this is the safest way but the longest)

• There are two ships  Ship A and Ship B
• Slow down one of the ships (Ship A)
  • Load chain in the beginning. 
  • Chain one cerberus (ship A) to 50% using up all chain (it will slow it down a lot) but be careful with aim.
• Destroy another ship Ship B
  • Start shooting the hull on the second one that has intact sails (ship B). 
  • Once you get damaged to 50% planking disengage and repair
  • Once repaired a bit come back and continue focus on ship B 
  • If you aim and turn properly you will get its planking to almost 0 on one side but you will still be damaged
  • Disengage a bit and repair (shooting from distance)
  • Come back to finish it off
  • If you are playing very safely you will destroy Ship B in 2 repair cycles (24 mins)
  • Now when this ship starts sinking - dont come back until it fully sank and pick up repairs if needed (i did not need them)
• Destroy ship A
  • You can do it three ways
    • Now because ship a is on low sails you can rake it and then grape it (a bit more risky) reducing reload
    • Or you can use 2 repair cycles (another 24 mins) to just destroy it by ball
    • Or you can be even more safe - and repair one more time by shooting top mast sections in the process removing all maneuverability from Ship A.

3 things that can help a lot

1. You can time the shots of the enemy - try to angle before it start shooting (reducing incoming damage drastically). If you are turning when broadside starts they will miss all the shots. 
2. Never fight both of them together.
3. And dont fight at close range. (stay further than 250 m as they miss more at this distance. 

In general you can destroy those ships in 1 hour if you playing safe and do not take any risks.
Players dont have to pass this exam to continue playing but if they do - they most likely will not have ANY problems in combat in the future both against AI or Players. 

 

 

[z4ys]

What I would like to see regarding tutorial and exams is that's it's more obvious what you get when a player passes the exams. 

Like first page of the tutorial book:

Introduction tab:

Captain for successfully completing the tutorial the Admiralty will grant you the MC rank a ship and some useful items.

If you decide not to follow the naval academy only your actions will count...

 

Something like that. To highlight that there are 2 ways to progress

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

 

Here is some additional inspiration in how to do the final exam. It's just one way of many. 

By the way it would be a better feedback for the player when the cerb wouldn't use charged shot (discovered by capturing one AI ship)so angling would have some kind of effect. I thought most of the time why I am angling at all when all goes through.

Edited April 20, 2018 by z4ys

[NethrosDefectus]

58 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets see if this will work first before thinking if something is wrong with that exam

Use this tactic. (this is the safest way but the longest)

• There are two ships  Ship A and Ship B
• Slow down one of the ships (Ship A)
  • Load chain in the beginning. 
  • Chain one cerberus (ship A) to 50% using up all chain (it will slow it down a lot) but be careful with aim.
• Destroy another ship Ship B
  • Start shooting the hull on the second one that has intact sails (ship B). 
  • Once you get damaged to 50% planking disengage and repair
  • Once repaired a bit come back and continue focus on ship B 
  • If you aim and turn properly you will get its planking to almost 0 on one side but you will still be damaged
  • Disengage a bit and repair (shooting from distance)
  • Come back to finish it off
  • If you are playing very safely you will destroy Ship B in 2 repair cycles (24 mins)
  • Now when this ship starts sinking - dont come back until it fully sank and pick up repairs if needed (i did not need them)
• Destroy ship A
  • You can do it three ways
    • Now because ship a is on low sails you can rake it and then grape it (a bit more risky) reducing reload
    • Or you can use 2 repair cycles (another 24 mins) to just destroy it by ball
    • Or you can be even more safe - and repair one more time by shooting top mast sections in the process removing all maneuverability from Ship A.

3 things that can help a lot

1. You can time the shots of the enemy - try to angle before it start shooting (reducing incoming damage drastically). If you are turning when broadside starts they will miss all the shots. 
2. Never fight both of them together.
3. And dont fight at close range. (stay further than 250 m as they miss more at this distance. 

In general you can destroy those ships in 1 hour if you playing safe and do not take any risks.
Players dont have to pass this exam to continue playing but if they do - they most likely will not have ANY problems in combat in the future both against AI or Players. 

 

 

How many mast hits would you say are needed to take one of their masts down? Because in the endurance exam, 60+ didn't do it and that was a Brig

Also please explain to me how I am supposed to seperate the enemy when the faster ship refuses to pass the slower ship?

A

As you can see the ship in front has heavily damaged sails. BUT everytime the ship gets to the point of over taking the ship in front it drops its sails to down down and never overtakes.

If you ask me, the second ship does NOT look like it is being sailed by a combat orientated captain! And much like a majority of the players, will not fight without his friend. Is this what you mean by "Preparing new players for PvP"?

Edited April 20, 2018 by NethrosDefectus

[NethrosDefectus]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

You were too far away then. Masts have thickness and you only shoot with 6(?) pounders mediums

If a mast hit is registered then it penetrated did it not?

[admin]

2 hours ago, Joernson said:

Was thinking the same. Reading text on the left side of the monitor seems to be easier/more comfortable.

 

it will stay on the right for a while. 
(otherwise it blocks boarding buttons on lower resolutions).

[Jim Beamreach]

@admin 

Is it posible to seperate the Exams from Tutorial. 

If someone has done his tutorial it will show a new button for Exams. And the Sail-Button will be free. Then players must not skip the Exams. Coud be that it is confusing for new players the way it works right now.

[GhastlyGhost]

Time for my feedback 

As a tester I used my cousin (He never played NA). First missions was easy. The problem started from demast. 10 min for new players is very small amount of time. He was able to take down one mast in time and the mission failed. The mission with Brig and Final examp I had do myself. Endurance was very frustrating but this Rattlesnake is rewarding it. The final exam I did the first time. Due to number of repairs it was easier than "endurance".

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by GhastlyGhost

[NethrosDefectus]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

no

And hull hits doesn't actually mean I hit the hull? Sail hits doesn't mean I actually hit the sails? A registered crew hit just means he saw the ball go past and just got a little shaken up? 

So the bits of wood coming from the masts when the ball hits were not splinters but in fact chaff designed to distract the ball?

Edited April 20, 2018 by NethrosDefectus

[admin]

Today's stats

Tutorials: 5000 attempts 1600 completions
Challenges: 5400 attempts 500 completions
Final exam: 1400 attempts 200 completions

Lets give it some time on the exams. There are two problems that I personally found annoying that make it harder (excessive heel and how depower work) once depower is separated from main sails it will be much more manageable. 

Please if you have any feedback on texts 
Additional sections for the basic tutorials 
let us know in the comments. 

[NethrosDefectus]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Today's stats

Tutorials: 5000 attempts 1600 completions
Challenges: 5400 attempts 500 completions
Final exam: 1400 attempts 200 completions

Lets give it some time.

Please if you have any feedback on texts 
Additional sections for the basic tutorials 
let us know in the comments. 

You'd make a great politician. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by NethrosDefectus

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Daring, wind, positioning and a dose of luck. True in the real life accounts of age of sail as much as in game. That's all that is needed to win against the AI.

Maybe the style of each veteran player is showing, but the Tutorial and Exams are primarily aimed at new players, which have no vices imbued. Maybe i'm biased but I see no difference from the exam AI and the OW AI.

- there's not one way to pass the exam, but many -

Just 2 cents about the fight.

Definitely my privateer/raider style did help ( also Cerb being one of my favorite ).

1. Same as humans would do, the AI will try to bracket you and crossfire. Keep your angle straight at them, one at a time as they broadside the first volleys.

2. Best bet is to immediately charge them and then take the upwind from one of them. As they position themselves to bracket the player ship they can't both go the same way. One will drift far downwind.

3. Once you have windward keep it until the first enemy is done for, either by cannon fire or by boarding. My lucky star gave me three stern rakes on him. First as he tacked, blasted the stern away. Following suit ( and keeping distance not to be pulled into boarding ), graped twice for two crew shocks. Pulled to boarding while windward. The second ship couldn't shoot me during the boarding. I was windward of the first one and shielded.

4. Dealing with the second one is peanuts. Pretty much the same the payer did for the Endurance exam should work.

[Grundgemunkey]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

Today's stats

Tutorials: 5000 attempts 1600 completions
Challenges: 5400 attempts 500 completions
Final exam: 1400 attempts 200 completions

Lets give it some time on the exams. There are two problems that I personally found annoying that make it harder (excessive heel and how depower work) once depower is separated from main sails it will be much more manageable. 

Please if you have any feedback on texts 
Additional sections for the basic tutorials 
let us know in the comments. 

how weird that attempts and completions all ended in such round numbers .. however

challenges average  10 attempts before passing  and final exam average 7 attempts before passing seem a little high ...seen as most people attempting tutorial will have have played the game for some time already

there doesnt seem to be any real indication in game that the tutorial is optional .. and that you can jump straight into ow if you want

are you not comcerned that for someone new to the game that the challenges and final exam are too hard and some people will leave the game before they even get properly started   asuming an hour per challenge and a new player completes in the same average attempts its going to take a new player 17 hours of game play to complete ... I would guess a new player wont complete the tutorial inline with those stats

is there any research been done in gaming world  to how long an average player will attempt a mission/ challemge before quitting a new game

 

 

[qw569😳]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Today's stats

Tutorials: 5000 attempts 1600 completions
Challenges: 5400 attempts 500 completions
Final exam: 1400 attempts 200 completions

Lets give it some time on the exams. There are two problems that I personally found annoying that make it harder (excessive heel and how depower work) once depower is separated from main sails it will be much more manageable. 

Please if you have any feedback on texts 
Additional sections for the basic tutorials 
let us know in the comments. 

Чё за китайская грамота.

1600 выполнило учебник, но только 500 выполнило челендж и 200 финальный экзамен. А где еще 900 (1600-500-200=900)?

Edited April 20, 2018 by qw569

[Michael Corvinus]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Lets see if this will work first before thinking if something is wrong with that exam

Use this tactic. (this is the safest way but the longest)

• There are two ships  Ship A and Ship B
• Slow down one of the ships (Ship A)
  • Load chain in the beginning. 
  • Chain one cerberus (ship A) to 50% using up all chain (it will slow it down a lot) but be careful with aim.
• Destroy another ship Ship B
  • Start shooting the hull on the second one that has intact sails (ship B). 
  • Once you get damaged to 50% planking disengage and repair
  • Once repaired a bit come back and continue focus on ship B 
  • If you aim and turn properly you will get its planking to almost 0 on one side but you will still be damaged
  • Disengage a bit and repair (shooting from distance)
  • Come back to finish it off
  • If you are playing very safely you will destroy Ship B in 2 repair cycles (24 mins)
  • Now when this ship starts sinking - dont come back until it fully sank and pick up repairs if needed (i did not need them)
• Destroy ship A
  • You can do it three ways
    • Now because ship a is on low sails you can rake it and then grape it (a bit more risky) reducing reload
    • Or you can use 2 repair cycles (another 24 mins) to just destroy it by ball
    • Or you can be even more safe - and repair one more time by shooting top mast sections in the process removing all maneuverability from Ship A.

3 things that can help a lot

1. You can time the shots of the enemy - try to angle before it start shooting (reducing incoming damage drastically). If you are turning when broadside starts they will miss all the shots. 
2. Never fight both of them together.
3. And dont fight at close range. (stay further than 250 m as they miss more at this distance. 

In general you can destroy those ships in 1 hour if you playing safe and do not take any risks.
Players dont have to pass this exam to continue playing but if they do - they most likely will not have ANY problems in combat in the future both against AI or Players. 

 

 

Thanks for this idea, yet in Endurance mission I hit the front mast of the second brig 49 times and it didn't go down!!!

[NethrosDefectus]

@admin AI doesn't "cheat"? The one I captured in the final exam had CHARGE loaded on the stern carronades! I can understand buffing their hp and reload etc. But they should be subject to the same game limitations as players.