Chain shot limitations - advanced warning

[admin]

9 minutes ago, staun said:

I remember once @admin told a story about wolf and sheps, when he argued about reinforcementzone. So we now are turning away form keeping the sheeps alive and just are happy with the wolf. 

Can you elaborate in detail how does green zones relate to limited chain?

[Kutai]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

Its not ill thought out. It's the devs thinking it's unfair that a good players sinks to 10 people chaining. Guess what. I lost my favorite trinco to that on Sunday. Still here arguing in favor of it because 1 ship SHOULD NOT be able to fight many. This is not hardcore. This is the opposite of hardcore. 

 

FINALLY! Someone who understands. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

your telling me a crew of 470 people cant swap out some ripped dirty rags for some nice white fresh sails. in 40mins. I could do it by myself in 5mins

I'd like to see that - preferably while I fire my cannon at you...

[Guest]

Just now, admin said:

Can you elaborate in detail how does green zones relate to limited chain?

 

2 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Because they are catering for both the carebears AND the PvP players.. Basically they are ensuring the carebears hardly ever experience PvP but when they do - the outcome is dictated beforehand in favour of the experienced PvP players.

 

[staun]

We want people to come out and fight. All ready player are complaining about ppl not want to come out and fight, but stay at there reinforcementzone. We think this change will get more players out to fight? We all ready had to invent a patrole area in a desperate try to get some fights.

 

[Jesper Dahl]

If you wish to fix something completely unrealistic, then start by removing the crew resurrection and cannon recreation with repairs.

And then remember the sniper cannon accuracy as well.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Jesper Dahl
Wording

[Project Pluto]

21 minutes ago, admin said:

We doubt that chain shot has such huge correlation with online . I am sure you are just exaggerating because of passion

But  In fact online numbers are completely irrelevant for me during early access. 
They are going to continue going up and down between 200-700 during early access every patch

 

Listen, you are doing the right thing, but do not just limit chain. You are making a mess. Limit all the ammo and add it to the production. Also, increase weight on Chain, and keep weight on Balls low. Make it available in every port from npc with +25% markup and let players craft/sell fro cheaper. 

-Iron, Forge and Add perk called 'Reinforced Ammo Crates' to add +5% ammo carry capacity for chain. 

(Frigate) Chain - 200, Balls - 2000 ratio ?

To stop people from complaining, add Ammo drops to npcs in case they run out and need to resupply. (Sink npc and steal their ammo). 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Project Pluto

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Jesper Dahl said:

If you wish to fix something completely unrealistic, then start by removing the crew resurrection and cannon recreation with repairs.

And then remember the sniper cannon accuracy as well.

and masts reapearing during battle.

[Kutai]

Just now, Lovec1990 said:

and masts reapearing during battle.

 

2 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said:

If you wish to fix something completely unrealistic, then start by removing the crew resurrection and cannon recreation with repairs.

And then remember the sniper cannon accuracy as well.

 

And sailors magically coming back to life with Rum

[Capt Jubal Early]

1 minute ago, Jesper Dahl said:

If you wish to fix something completely unrealistic, then start by removing the crew resurrection and cannon recreation with repairs.

And then remember the sniper cannon accuracy as well.

Realism is a bollocks excuse. Most of the game is unrealistic and its fine the way it is. Minor tweaks are necessary to the combat model or a major overhaul. Not random rash changes like this. Concentrate on the important shit and get it done then come back and look at the combat model in the future. Take war thunders development as a example. They've gone back to the combat model time and time again but in big patches.

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said:

The game is dead post early access unless something big happening. And that isn´t to cater to 25-50 people when they whine about being chained when they wanted easy kills.

And we all know from history how these kind of changes affects the game. then you can backtrack on the changes later while losing about part of the ever diminishing population and more complaints about not being able to find a battle.

You are making a flawed statement. Think about it

You say limited chain will increase online drop.
There are two states of the game

• One with limited chain
• Another with unlimited chain

Something must be preferred by players and one is definitely better than another. We have not tested with limited chain and the only time to test is before release.

You post online numbers and say they are falling. But chain shot is not limited currently.
Inferring from your argument (using 1st year logic) this means Unlimited chain shot is the reason of online fall?
Using your logic further - limited chain will cause online to go up? Because it falls currently with unlimited chain

 

Lesson of all this.
I want more tactical depth in chain use and will add it to the game despite if some casual players want to keep brainless clicker heroes chaining with no thinking required.

Online will fluctuate and has no correlation with chainshot number. (+ it always fell in april may before)
Online is not growing because there is no advertising and random players who stumble to forums see hating posts from you and decide to wait. 

[Kutai]

Just now, admin said:

You are making a flawed statement. Think about it

You say limited chain will increase online drop.
There are two states of the game

• One with limited chain
• Another with unlimited chain

Something must be preferred by players and one is definitely better than another.
You post online numbers and say they are falling. But chain shot is not limited currently.
Inferring from your argument (using 1st year logic) this means Unlimited chain shot is the reason of online fall?
Using your logic further - limited chain will cause online to go up? Because it falls currently with unlimited chain

 

Lesson of all this. Online will fluctuate. I want more tactical depth in chain use and will add it to the game despite if you want brainless clicker heroes chaining
Online is falling because there is no advertising and random players who stumble to forums see hating posts from you and decide to wait. 
 

 

You really are not reading what he is saying, you are just trying to blindly defend the change.

He is saying that lots of changes like this, have caused the player base to fall. 

[Jesper Dahl]

1 minute ago, admin said:

You are making a flawed statement. Think about it

You say limited chain will increase online drop.
There are two states of the game

• One with limited chain
• Another with unlimited chain

Something must be preferred by players and one is definitely better than another.
You post online numbers and say they are falling. But chain shot is not limited currently.
Inferring from your argument (using 1st year logic) this means Unlimited chain shot is the reason of online fall?
Using your logic further - limited chain will cause online to go up? Because it falls currently with unlimited chain

 

Lesson of all this. Online will fluctuate. I want more tactical depth in chain use and will add it to the game despite if you want brainless clicker heroes chaining
Online is falling because there is no advertising and random players who stumble to forums see hating posts from you and decide to wait. 
 

Let me ask you this then, who asked for this change? What demographic? How large a population?

[Cecil Selous]

It was at least suggested and discussed many times in the last 2 years.

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Cecil Selous

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said:

Let me ask you this then, who asked for this change? What demographic? How large a population?

 I decide how the game will look on release. We all then test and provide feedback. 

Right now you are providing feedback BEFORE testing - which makes your feedback useless.
 

[Capt Jubal Early]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Open development has not worked well for NA in the past. You can safely forget those times
 I decide how the game will look on release. 
 

Cant argue with that. Pointless arguing with your players then.

[Lovec1990]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

You are making a flawed statement. Think about it

You say limited chain will increase online drop.
There are two states of the game

• One with limited chain
• Another with unlimited chain

Something must be preferred by players and one is definitely better than another. We have not tested with limited chain and the only time to test is before release.

You post online numbers and say they are falling. But chain shot is not limited currently.
Inferring from your argument (using 1st year logic) this means Unlimited chain shot is the reason of online fall?
Using your logic further - limited chain will cause online to go up? Because it falls currently with unlimited chain

 

Lesson of all this.
I want more tactical depth in chain use and will add it to the game despite if some casual players want to keep brainless clicker heroes chaining with no thinking required.

Online will fluctuate and has no correlation with chainshot number. (+ it always fell in april may before)
Online is not growing because there is no advertising and random players who stumble to forums see hating posts from you and decide to wait. 

While other guy spams rig repairs?

if you went for realism game would be more hardcore but also more intresting and fun, but you are leaving realism

[staun]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Captains

Amount of chain shot carried by a ship will be limited next patch (so called tutorial patch)
No perk will be required for use of chain (at least for now).

Reasons

• Historically ships carried A LOT less chain and grape compared to normal cannon balls.

You want to use real fact as an argument.  Then you also have to limit balls. Any ship only had that much space for cannons. How it was ballanced was  I don't know. But as you your self say. There have to be a balance between. lets say it is 10-10-80. That means if a ship can fire lets say 100 chain, then i only can fire 800 balls.  

[admin]

1 minute ago, Kutai said:

I guess the Naval Action video advertisement I got while watching You Tube the other day was a figment of my imagination. 

I guess you are not familiar with you tube engagement algorithms. They rotate engaging videos and show to users that could be interested in the subject, which can show ads even if the budget is minimal. 

But those who click on those viral ads - will then come to the forum and see your posts. Where you talk about the dead game - which has not been yet released.

[Project Pluto]

3 minutes ago, staun said:

You want to use real fact as an argument.  Then you also have to limit balls. Any ship only had that much space for cannons. How it was ballanced was  I don't know. But as you your self say. There have to be a balance between. lets say it is 10-10-80. That means if a ship can fire lets say 100 chain, then i only can fire 800 balls.  

They have to limit ALL ammo if they want this to work. Limiting  just one ammo type is useless. Not a single game makes 1 ammo type limited and other types unlimited. It's just silly. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Project Pluto

[Lovec1990]

and add stress for sails so players will use 100% only when really needed

Edited April 11, 2018 by Lovec1990

[Pada]

5 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

While other guy spams rig repairs?

if you went for realism game would be more hardcore but also more intresting and fun, but you are leaving realism

We don't even know how much chain we will have. Can't we just try it out instead of raging on the forums. Now we have the time to try things out at release it's too late.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Pada

[Lovec1990]

Just now, Pada said:

We don't even now how much chain we will have. Can't we just try it out instead of raging on the forums. Now we have the time to try things out at release it's too late.

i do not care about the amount but that now using rig repairs will save you 100%

[Jean Ribault]

@admin can you state the nature of the chain limitation?

Number of rounds for each cannon?  Total weight of chain prorated to ship class or size?  Or hold size?  The OP does not state the nature of the limitation, maybe you don't know at this point?  More details would help with a more fruitful discussion.  Maybe I missed it, I didn't see that discussed.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, staun said:

You want to use real fact as an argument.  Then you also have to limit balls. Any ship only had that much space for cannons. How it was ballanced was  I don't know. But as you your self say. There have to be a balance between. lets say it is 10-10-80. That means if a ship can fire lets say 100 chain, then i only can fire 800 balls.  

Typically every cannon had a difference of 4 shots, 2 chains and 1 grape - but this dependent entirely on the captain and the merchant vessels would prob carry many more chains since this were their only means of outrunning a warship.