Percival Merewether Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Trash unworthy of the Sea said: Pretty much what I assumed he was... glad someone could confirm. Remind me again... What have I done to you...? And how is that a confirmation of anything?
Landsman Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said: Remind me again... What have I done to you...? And how is that a confirmation of anything? Well people hating on the Patrol missions and claiming they take away from the OW PvP are full of ****. OW PvP is all about ganking and chasing fir/fir cowards for hours.... I like the concept of OW PvP but in reality with the low player numbers we have it's just a waste of time and the Patrol event finally does away with the hour long chases and speed boats - what's not to love if you aren't a coward in a overmodded gankboat? Is there ganking in patrol mission? Yeah, of course - just like in OW. Are there many cowards that only join the winning side with higher BR? Yeah this aswell - just like in OW. But at least there is no running. People go to the patrol zone for fighting. and you can bring ships that are actually built for combat, while those that bring fully modded expensive ships actually are at a risk. 2
MassimoSud Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 NA is a simulation sandbox and one of the best things, after the fighting mechanics, is the open world, something that makes it almost unique! For this reason I like NA, for the "freedom" it offers to the players and for the chance to play with different approaches: TRADER: once the economy is better defined, I believe that even traders can be decisive in the game, especially in clans that do a lot of RvR. At the moment perhaps this aspect of the game is not really the best, but I hope that the developers will want to improve it. More traders, more open world, more PvP (this is ultimately a PvP server!). Devs please try to invent some escorting mission to the traders, it could be useful and fun. CRAFTER: I am not particularly favorable to the RNG, but I must confess that this has a little revitalized crafting. Perhaps you could balance the RNG with the xp of crafting, so that the more experience you accumulatein crafting, the more likely you are to make a better ship. Perhaps some ports could give a greater possibility to craft ships with particular refits (as in the past with the regional refits, but with the RNG component). PRIVATEERS: many clans and players, including myself, are more like privateers than captains of the national navy. For them the open world is fundamental, and having a ship that is the right balance between speed, agility and fire / boarding power is a difficult thing to achieve. These players have little or no interest in having the Patrol missions, because they are free spirits and know where to find action thanks to their experience (trading routes, port battles, free cities ...). But a populated open world is needed, otherwise they are destined to extinction. RvR CAPTAIN: the major clans are mainly interested in RvR, they do trading and crafting for the need of the game (finding resources and gold to support the war). Even here I think it would be appropriate to make more useful ports, diversifying the distribution of resources better and across the map. Perhaps it would also be appropriate to reinsert the possibility that in some ports the ships are crafted with special refits (nothing of OP) but simply to make sense and a utility to several ports in the map. These clans are those that keep the game alive, perhaps a more detailed clan management would be necessary. My dream is that we move from a logic of Nation vs Nation to a logic of Clans vs Clans, but perhaps the effort of programming is not possible to sustain (precisely it is and will remain a dream of many). NEW PLAYER: this is the "category" to be protected better, as if it were a protected "species"! Too many players leave the game after a few hours because they find it frustrating and too challenging, generating bad reviews that produce the effect of having less and less new players. With the tutorial and the next UI, I think we will have some improvements. The protected zones are ok, but they are too big, some are really excessive! The capital and a couple of nearby ports are more than enough as protected areas where to do missions and where to find the "basic" resources for crafting. For the rest you have to venture into the open world and be aware that you are in a PvP server, but only after having gained a minimum of experience and knowledge of the game mechanics. CASUAL PLAYERS: NA is a game that requires at least a couple of hours of time (if you want to be a PvP player), if the time is less you can do some mission or a bit of trading. However, devs are developing NAL which will certainly satisfy the PvPers category with less time available. So what do I think of the patrol missions? Frankly they do not respect my concept of freedom I want in a simulative sandbox game. Waiting for NAL and for those players with less time available I would suggest rather a modality like that of the FLEET PRACTICE with some differences. Waiting list where the server decides, based on the battle rating, where the single player can join, keeping the BR balanced. Do you want to join in a group? The server only makes you join when there is another group or a series of single players who balance the BR. The battle remains always open and all join in the same point (one on each side) adding to the battle from time to time up to the limit allowed by the server that handle it. The battle takes place within the well-known circle of death but must give the possibility of short excursions outside (as in the old PBs). It would be nice to be able to offer rooms with passwords in order to organize agreed challenges. All of this interests me very little but it would offer more "fair" fights as many seem to have been asking for some time (or maybe it's just a fake request?). Today, however, you must arrive in the patrol area organized in groups, otherwise it always ends up in unbalanced battles from which you can not even escape! And all the brave captains joining from the side with major BR (in the face of all fair fighters!). So for the "solo" players there is no space! I really hope that these patrol missions or these game modes per instance will be eliminated in the release of the game and include in NAL where it is right that they are, in a sandbox game do not really make sense (it's my personal opinion). Good job developers! 5
SKurj Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) The patrol zone kills trade..... Any trader caught within the zone also can only sink... regardless of if they have the patrol mission or not Edited March 17, 2018 by SKurj 2
NethrosDefectus Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Trash unworthy of the Sea said: Well people hating on the Patrol missions and claiming they take away from the OW PvP are full of ****. OW PvP is all about ganking and chasing fir/fir cowards for hours.... I like the concept of OW PvP but in reality with the low player numbers we have it's just a waste of time and the Patrol event finally does away with the hour long chases and speed boats - what's not to love if you aren't a coward in a overmodded gankboat? Is there ganking in patrol mission? Yeah, of course - just like in OW. Are there many cowards that only join the winning side with higher BR? Yeah this aswell - just like in OW. But at least there is no running. People go to the patrol zone for fighting. and you can bring ships that are actually built for combat, while those that bring fully modded expensive ships actually are at a risk. So you are one of these players that blames the other captain's mods for his own losses I see. When I go out, I go out to fight. I assure you my ships are built for combat and are far from "fir/fir coward ships". Open world PvP is all about the hunt and not knowing what you will encounter, which is the main appeal for me. Going to those PvP mission zones is a simple matter of numbers, you don't have to defeat your enemy, you just have to last long enough for them to get caught out by the shrinking circle. You claim that the ships taken to the zones are built for combat, but in fact they are built to take hits long enough to allow them to wait for the circle to shrink. Especially when you have a group of these ships only attacking smaller groups or single ships. When we go out to hunt, often we will encounter a group of ships and fairly often will find ourselves outnumbered and outgunned yet a lot of the time we still win those battles because we are able to use tactics to slow the fight down and pick off ships strategically, that can't be done in those pvp missions and I think that's why a lot of these players like them. In the pvp missions the side with the bigger numbers is almost certainly guaranteed the win, whereas in open world pvp the numbers don't mean anything and I think this is what scares them. Especially now that they cannot see who they will be attacking or who is about to attack them. 3
Aster Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Lets be real if your a trade ship and you knowingly sail into a pvp area that is marked on the map with loads of people dying in that area, instead of taking a 15 min detour you deserve to be sunk. 3
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, NethrosDefectus said: In the pvp missions the side with the bigger numbers is almost certainly guaranteed the win, whereas in open world pvp the numbers don't mean anything and I think this is what scares them. Especially now that they cannot see who they will be attacking or who is about to attack them. You can't contradictlike this and expect people to take your opinion seriously.
NethrosDefectus Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: You can't contradictlike this and expect people to take your opinion seriously. You've lost me, where did i contradict myself?
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, NethrosDefectus said: You've lost me, where did i contradict myself? Numbers matter, numbers don't matter numbers matter in both, they're almost the same thing
NethrosDefectus Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: Numbers matter, numbers don't matter numbers matter in both, they're almost the same thing I suggest you read the whole thing and not a single sentence out of context. In the PvP missions, to have the higher numbers almost certainly ensures you win as the shrinking circle basically forces broadside to broadside fighting. In normal open world pvp having the higher numbers does not guarantee you the win because more tactics/options are available to the smaller defending side. So please do tell me where I am wrong in that statement? Edited March 17, 2018 by NethrosDefectus 2
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Just now, NethrosDefectus said: In the PvP missions, to have the higher numbers almost certainly ensures you you win. right here Edited March 17, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson
NethrosDefectus Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said: right here How about you speak in sentences and explain your stance instead of just making arbitrary comments.
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, NethrosDefectus said: How about you speak in sentences and explain your stance instead of just making arbitrary comments. *ahem* Numbers...alone.....don't.....ensure....victory..........in any circumstance. How's that? Now are you going to refute or concede, because your opinion that PVP missions are somehow so different from regular OW battles is wrong and bias. There is nothing exceptionally different besides the ROE (which prevents running away, 90% of OW battles) and the rewards.
NethrosDefectus Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said: *ahem* Numbers...alone.....don't.....ensure....victory..........in any circumstance. How's that? Now are you going to refute or concede, because your opinion that PVP missions are somehow so different from regular OW battles is wrong and bias. There is nothing exceptionally different besides the ROE (which prevents running away, 90% of OW battles) and the rewards. In a regular open world of course the numbers don't ensure victory. However in a battle where the area shrinks you have to stay close to the enemy and essentially go broadside to broadside with them. So if I enter the zone in say a Trinc and I encounter and am tagged by two Swedish 4th rates for example, you are saying I can go broadside to broadside with those two ships and come out of that victorious yes? If that is the case you you are deluded. And that's even ignoring the fact they would have almost unlimited reinforcements throughout the battle as they don't close.
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, NethrosDefectus said: In a regular open world of course the numbers don't ensure victory. However in a battle where the area shrinks you have to stay close to the enemy and essentially go broadside to broadside with them. So if I enter the zone in say a Trinc and I encounter and am tagged by two Swedish 4th rates for example, you are saying I can go broadside to broadside with those two ships and come out of that victorious yes? If that is the case you you are deluded. And that's even ignoring the fact they would have almost unlimited reinforcements throughout the battle as they don't close. Numbers aren't the whole story. If you enter with 3 trincs vs one 1st rate you can still lose. I had a battle today where we outnumbered the enemy by about 7 ships yet they make it down to either 2v1 or 4v2 when the battle timer ran out. So no numbers don't ensure victory in PVP zone battles like you seem to suggest.
Slim McSauce Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, Wraith said: Can you honestly say you don't fight differently when you're in a throwaway ship in a shrinking circle of death, knowing that you're fighting against other trash ships that probably aren't even carrying repairs? Come on... To claim there's nothing exceptionally different between the battles you find in the Events and those you'd typically find elsewhere in the OW is disingenuous at best. I do, everyone does. But that doesn't have anything to do with numbers. The mentality of the PVP missions is you either win and live or lose and die, unlike OW battles where most of the time you're either chasing someone or running from someone which is imo no fun at all and a huge waste of my time when I could be fighting people who...ya know.. want to actually fight and not just bug out when things look bad.
SKurj Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Aster said: Lets be real if your a trade ship and you knowingly sail into a pvp area that is marked on the map with loads of people dying in that area, instead of taking a 15 min detour you deserve to be sunk. Actually it was another player who found this out, he didn't have the mission left Nassau not knowing what was up and couldn't run from the battle when he was tagged. Why The F do we need a new ROE? Without the new ROE it would have been business as usual for the trader using skill to escape, now too bad may as well surrender. Sorry Patrol mission ROE sucks And if that deathmatch arena patrol mission was changed to serve a purpose .. aka screening battle for example it would be just fine Edited March 17, 2018 by SKurj 1
GrubbyZebra Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said: Numbers aren't the whole story. If you enter with 3 trincs vs one 1st rate you can still lose. I had a battle today where we outnumbered the enemy by about 7 ships yet they make it down to either 2v1 or 4v2 when the battle timer ran out. So no numbers don't ensure victory in PVP zone battles like you seem to suggest. That was still numbers winning. It's not just #players, it's #players+broadsideweight+armourhp Edited March 17, 2018 by BPHick 2
GrubbyZebra Posted March 17, 2018 Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Aster said: Lets be real if your a trade ship and you knowingly sail into a pvp area that is marked on the map with loads of people dying in that area, instead of taking a 15 min detour you deserve to be sunk. except at least 2 of the zones overlap trade routes that don't really have a detour (tumbado and the proposed Aves zone).
Liq Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Game has gone back to "be as tanky as possible, live oak super thickness extra HP 1st rates" in PvP events in Reinforcement zone battles as those stay open for the whole time aswell Aswell as in port battles again it seems. Little to no room for frigate engagements in OW. sad. 8
Lovec1990 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, Liq said: Game has gone back to "be as tanky as possible, live oak super thickness extra HP 1st rates" in PvP events in Reinforcement zone battles as those stay open for the whole time aswell Aswell as in port battles again it seems. Little to no room for frigate engagements in OW. sad. Well thats how 1st rates should be as for frigates i see plenty of them in OW every PVP battle i perticipated it had frigates on both sides. in massive battles with 1st 2nd 3rd rates Frigates should fight other frigates and not lineships
victor Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 On 16/3/2018 at 6:58 PM, ChristenTrash said: Time and time again we have seen that PVP events simply act as a bandaid for a crafting/econ system that does not inherently promote OW PVP. Have you ever thought that most of traders and crafters do not want to PVP? A trader ship is dead meat now: it's slower than warship, cannot countertag since circles are small, cannot fight back. Once spotted in OS a trader is just dead since it's free PVP marks. If you force crafters and traders out of safe zones to do profitable things, a lot of them will just stop playing.
Slim McSauce Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, victor said: Have you ever thought that most of traders and crafters do not want to PVP? A trader ship is dead meat now: it's slower than warship, cannot countertag since circles are small, cannot fight back. Once spotted in OS a trader is just dead since it's free PVP marks. If you force crafters and traders out of safe zones to do profitable things, a lot of them will just stop playing. That honestly sucks for them. The game needs to be good and meaningful not appeal to the fragile sensibilities of someone too stubborn to use the pve server
victor Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, Slim Jimmerson said: That honestly sucks for them. The game needs to be good and meaningful not appeal to the fragile sensibilities of someone too stubborn to use the pve server The game shall live. And to live needs player. The playerbase of each MMO (also of the PVP oriented ones) is made also of players that do other things than fighting. Your dream of an all PVP community is an illusion. Most PVPers do not like crafting nor hauling. Therefore there shall be someone doing those things for them. But if those players have only downs and no advantage in doing what they like, they simply will not play the game.
Slim McSauce Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, victor said: The game shall live. And to live needs player. The playerbase of each MMO (also of the PVP oriented ones) is made also of players that do other things than fighting. Your dream of an all PVP community is an illusion. Most PVPers do not like crafting nor hauling. Therefore there shall be someone doing those things for them. But if those players have only downs and no advantage in doing what they like, they simply will not play the game. Their advantage is that they get rich. I dont craft and trade because I want to, I do it to make money so I can fund an addiction of ships and wealth.
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