Ramming - Honorable or Dispicable

[MarcoRossolini]

I'm not sure what the problem is with ramming. When I've known I'm about to be defeated (usually by a superior ship, along the lines of me in a Snow versus a Constitution) I'll usually try for a ram in the hope of making the frigate slightly easier for the rest of my team. The damage caused to yourself in the form of manouevrability being impared, severe damage to your ship etc, means it's not a tactic to be done lightly. I have no problem with it currently.

[Mirones]

the only time i rammed an enemy so far on purpose was to save chilly from boarding so i basicly squezzed myself between him and the enemy.

other wise later way to dangerius and costly but if the wrecks stay on the ground where they sunk then hallejulia exploration gameplay with divingbells is saved.

[Leviathan]

I don't think ramming will be as popular in the fully released game as it is in the Alpha. Remember, people don't lose anything with the loss of their ship... yet.

Everything is more exciting when the chips are on the table.

[Bis18marck70]

I think it's a problem of the TDM we have now.

 

Ramming is not just bad practice, in many instances I've seen it "used" in game it's totally unrealistic too. But people do it because that way they can "sink that bigger ship" thus "helping their team to win". What they never account for is that doing that they just erased themselves from the battle aswell, and in most cases in the end their own team loses more than what they win.

[...]

Right now you don't...but the "pro rammers" are in for a rude awakening once that stuff starts mattering .

 

 

I get rammed all the time and more often than not the smaller ship hurts himself and not me. I never get mad or think the player is dirty, he has just shown himself to be tactically naive, unless it's his last move and it's all he's got.

 

Both these things.

 

Also, ramming in game is a much easier call than in reality, especially in sea trials with literally no cost associated with it (at least none most compulsive rammers care about). Players, most likely those that get frustrated or start losing the engagement without being able to get back into the game, will resort to it. They are shooting themselves in the foot so, like NorthernWolves said, it mostly works in favour of the team that suffered the ram.

 

Simple fact of the matter is that Sea Trial is host to a large group of players that have an avid interest in sailing ships and know what they are doing. Unless new players fight vs new players, it can be a frustrating experience. Having played my three first ever NA games vs Ramjb, I can tell you that it is seriously annoying when you know that a) nothing you do will save you, b ) if you do happen to do something well, your inexperience will make it meaningless and c) feel utterly helpless. I can see how some people, in such a situation with no real cost to it, throw everything aside and go for a ram purely out of frustration.  Those that don't, they'll learn. Those that consistently ram, they'll improve at a much slower pace. Instead of using this Sea Trials to learn the basics and get good at sailing vs smaller/ bigger ships, they sabotage themselves. Chances are they'll give up on the game anyway.

 

If it's the players last shot, or even a 100% tactical call, very well. Sadly, most rams currently (excluding those that happen by accident) are not tactical calls but are covered up by citing the premise of 'tactical ram' even though many more options were available. Once open world hits, those that really only did it as a last shot will most likely strike their colours before it gets that far in order to save crew and ship. A pure tactical ram will happen, but it'll be rare.

 

Compulsive rammers that go for it just for the sake of ramming? Well, there is nothing to fix those but I am confident that there will be some real in-game cost associated with ramming once open world hits. It'll be a costly affair and painful.

 

Edit&Add: I have yet to see a single person standing out by consistently ramming in the game.

[Tagera]

Both these things.

 

Also, ramming in game is a much easier call than in reality, especially in sea trials with literally no cost associated with it (at least none most compulsive rammers care about). Players, most likely those that get frustrated or start losing the engagement without being able to get back into the game, will resort to it. They are shooting themselves in the foot so, like NorthernWolves said, it mostly works in favour of the team that suffered the ram.

 

Simple fact of the matter is that Sea Trial is host to a large group of players that have an avid interest in sailing ships and know what they are doing. Unless new players fight vs new players, it can be a frustrating experience. Having played my three first ever NA games vs Ramjb, I can tell you that it is seriously annoying when you know that a) nothing you do will save you, b ) if you do happen to do something well, your inexperience will make it meaningless and c) feel utterly helpless. I can see how some people, in such a situation with no real cost to it, throw everything aside and go for a ram purely out of frustration.  Those that don't, they'll learn. Those that consistently ram, they'll improve at a much slower pace. Instead of using this Sea Trials to learn the basics and get good at sailing vs smaller/ bigger ships, they sabotage themselves. Chances are they'll give up on the game anyway.

 

If it's the players last shot, or even a 100% tactical call, very well. Sadly, most rams currently (excluding those that happen by accident) are not tactical calls but are covered up by citing the premise of 'tactical ram' even though many more options were available. Once open world hits, those that really only did it as a last shot will most likely strike their colours before it gets that far in order to save crew and ship. A pure tactical ram will happen, but it'll be rare.

 

Compulsive rammers that go for it just for the sake of ramming? Well, there is nothing to fix those but I am confident that there will be some real in-game cost associated with ramming once open world hits. It'll be a costly affair and painful.

 

Edit&Add: I have yet to see a single person standing out by consistently ramming in the game.

All rams by me or against me so far have been accidents. Either I wasn't watching in front of me or I cut too close in front of someone's line and didn't judge enough distance to move out of the way. So far those were only Lynx and Cutter though since the Brig and up isn't fast enough to really  do effective hit and runs on the bow or sterns.

[Ratel]

In naval warfare evolution it has always been a matter of to ram or not! Throughout different periods the overall evolution of the ship dictated the tactics of rendering force on the enemy. If the Dev’s stay true to history then the ram is a valid tactic to employ. In history when navies encountered superior forces desperate measures where often the only tactics left to employ. From the Fire Ship (that being sacrificing old/ purpose built ships and setting them a blaze) to finally too purpose built ram machines aka torpedoes (both static and propelled)! Let’s not restrict Naval Action, but instead embrace the SOTL era combat and all its beauty and destruction. I can only wonder how people will feel if the Dev’s put in swivel guns, marines and snipers! Let’s remember what killed Horatio Nelson, a French Sniper.  Is this an honorable way to fight or just sound tactics of attacking the opposing genius in command? To ram or not should be left to the individual captain or the overall fleet commander attempting to gain what we all want, victory!

[IIN8II]

neither honorable nor despicable but rather somewhere in between.

[Balck]

I would qualify it as desperate on part of an enemy, careless on part of a friend.

[BBrown]

Something else that just came to mind is that right now we are in Damage model 3.0.. Who knows what ramming will be like in the 4.0 model. It may change things so significantly that ramming becomes obsolete even in the TDM scenario. As mentioned multiple times in this thread it is already almost completely obsolete due to the damage one causes to their own ship. Thinking back on it, the people I've been rammed by have ended up sinking before I have. In some situations my crew is able to salvage my ship before sinking. The only time I have observed ramming actually hurting me is when my bowsprit was snapped off.

[Don Alvarez]

If you want to punish people for ramming you'll have to ban the AI, and NPC ships will have to sit motionless. The AI has rammed me more times than I can count now.

[Bis18marck70]

If you want to punish people for ramming you'll have to ban the AI, and NPC ships will have to sit motionless. The AI has rammed me more times than I can count now.

 

(off-topic)

 

That's cause their idea of naval warfare is stuck somewhere in the roman age.

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

[AmericanSailor98]

Ramming is life!

[O'BrianFan]

Tom has the same point here I was trying to make above. We are only testing the battle situations, we have no idea what damage will cost us in game terms, until we are testing dockside and recruitment features as yet not released.

 

Remember that the Rammer will always be bow on, which would put tremendous strain on his/her masts when impact takes place, saying goodbye to potentially all standing mast sections..

As has been said, once there is a large cost to fighting to the death rather than escaping or surrendering then the practice will reduce greatly.

[StaleMemes]

ramming is ok. I had a battle in my connie against two brigs. we made a deal, they won't fire chain, and I will only kill them via ramming. was hilarious.