Arranged 1v1s - a problem?

[Percival Merewether]

I discussed the possibility of doing arranged 1v1s with an enemy player following a 2v3 yesterday - I have done multiple arranged 1v1s in the past for the purpose of a rematch, but my question is this:

How many arranged 1v1s can you do before it's considered PvP-mark farming?

The reasons for doing the 1v1s are obviously fun and experience - the 'PvP-marks' + 'Combat News' are in this particular case an unwelcome side-effect. An obvious solution to this problem is of course surrendering/fight to half structure, but the knowledge of your ship being safe WILL affect the choices made in battle.

EDIT: 

An example of what I'd personally consider cheating:

Endymion vs Endymion gurantees one of the players 10 PvP marks

• 10 PvP-marks = 1-3 million (depending on buyer... was once worth 4.5 million)
• Endymion value = 5-600k

I hope you guys see my dilemma here.... makes me consider whether PvP-marks are a good idea at all...?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Pada]

It‘s farming when one of the players just sits there and letting himself sink.

If he fights back it‘s a normal battle. The results are open and not decided up on start.

[Percival Merewether]

2 minutes ago, Pada said:

It‘s farming when one of the players just sits there and letting himself sink.

If he fights back it‘s a normal battle. The results are open and not decided up on start.

Cheers

[admin]

58 minutes ago, Pada said:

It‘s farming when one of the players just sits there and letting himself sink.

If he fights back it‘s a normal battle. The results are open and not decided up on start.

confirmed. 
1-2 Active fights per day, ships sink - not farming.
But be wary of doing it a lot it moves to a great area. In the past we have reset characters of players killing the same person 5-6 times over the short time (for example 1 day). You can also get reported if you get spotted doing it over and over again. 

But 1-2 arranged battles per day with actual fighting is ok

[Percival Merewether]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

confirmed. 
1-2 Active fights per day, ships sink - not farming.
But be wary of doing it a lot it moves to a great area. In the past we have reset characters of players killing the same person 5-6 times over the short time (for example 1 day). You can also get reported if you get spotted doing it over and over again. 

But 1-2 arranged battles per day with actual fighting is ok

Thanks for the clarification, That's exactly what I was wondering.

2+ fights a day would be too much anyways - I need the hunt 

[Navalus Magnus]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

confirmed. 
1-2 Active fights per day, ships sink - not farming.
But be wary of doing it a lot it moves to a great area. In the past we have reset characters of players killing the same person 5-6 times over the short time (for example 1 day). You can also get reported if you get spotted doing it over and over again. 

But 1-2 arranged battles per day with actual fighting is ok

Would it be possible, to add a 1 vs. 1 training room, like the fleet practice?

Than nobody could get falsely accused of farming that easy.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Navalus Magnus

[sveno]

1 minute ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Would it be possible, to add a 1 vs. 1 training room, like the fleet practice?

Than nobody could get falsely accused of farming that easy.

I second this notion, makes it also much easier to train new folks so that they get better in PvP.

[Percival Merewether]

3 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Would it be possible, to add a 1 vs. 1 training room, like the fleet practice?

Than nobody could get falsely accused of farming that easy.

 

Just now, sveno said:

I second this notion, makes it also much easier to train new folks so that they get better in PvP.

Agreed, would be a great feature.

[Sea Fox]

1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

 

Agreed, would be a great feature.

Ditto...but I understand why they took duels away....it was great but it cut down on the open world PVP. I'm posting a topic that with suggestions on pvp 

[sveno]

7 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

Ditto...but I understand why they took duels away....it was great but it cut down on the open world PVP. I'm posting a topic that with suggestions on pvp 

Not as much as Small Battles did.

I would even say that Fleet Practise should be replaced by a Duel Room.

If you want a real big fight, you need to get onto OW, with the risk and loss involved.

[HachiRoku]

My ships are worth far more than 10 marks. Just bet 10 to 15 pvp marks and you don't risk sinking. No sinking means no combat news. 

[Percival Merewether]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

My ships are worth far more than 10 marks. Just bet 10 to 15 pvp marks and you don't risk sinking. No sinking means no combat news. 

Congrats - That is completely irrelevant to the conversation Hachi, but good for you 

In a 1 vs 1 practice all you need is two even ships regardless of build.. two Oak/Oak Endymions with no mods will give you as many PvP marks as a T/W with Caulking, Copper and Elite French. The point of the post was to know if arranged 1v1s are acceptable - Admin has confirmed that it is.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

Congrats - That is completely irrelevant to the conversation Hachi, but good for you 

In a 1 vs 1 practice all you need is two even ships regardless of build.. two Oak/Oak Endymions with no mods will give you as many PvP marks as a T/W with Caulking, Copper and Elite French. The point of the post was to know if arranged 1v1s are acceptable - Admin has confirmed that it is.

Sorry for living.... 

[admin]

1 hour ago, sveno said:

Not as much as Small Battles did.

I would even say that Fleet Practise should be replaced by a Duel Room.

If you want a real big fight, you need to get onto OW, with the risk and loss involved.

i kind of agree with the group fights. but we know people want practice group fights and cannot find them without messy tags in the open world (if HRE wants to practice with HRE)
 

[HachiRoku]

But I don't understand. Even if it's practice and you 1v1 with really cheap ships 2 times a day you're farming to me. There is no point sinking unless you want to pretend to practice so you and a buddy get guaranteed marks no matter the outcome. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, admin said:

i kind of agree with the group fights. but we know people want practice group fights and cannot find them without messy tags in the open world (if HRE wants to practice with HRE)
 

Can you give us 25 man groups? I get why you don't want too but I'll still ask. 

[sveno]

1 hour ago, admin said:

i kind of agree with the group fights. but we know people want practice group fights and cannot find them without messy tags in the open world (if HRE wants to practice with HRE)

Most of us surely like the feature, but you need enough players to have a clan internal training fight, not a feature that small clans cannot use to the extend we can use - might be unfair.

Also, these fights tend to be rather chaotic when it comes to selected ships or random people trolling around in mortar brigs / fireships. Not easy to properly train anyway.

With the duel room, as the old was, fights start as soon two equal ships are in, it is easier to train new people closely.

The other upsides of the change from Fleet Practice to Duel Room are:
- More captains searching group fights in OW (losless group fights shouldn't really be a thing anyway).
- Less duels on OW which could be mistaken as farming (consider some guys want revange or repeat with an other class of ship).
- Great place to learn 1 vs 1 PvP properly without to much bleeding (which has lead to people leave the game before).

Edited February 15, 2018 by sveno

[Percival Merewether]

41 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

But I don't understand. Even if it's practice and you 1v1 with really cheap ships 2 times a day you're farming to me. There is no point sinking unless you want to pretend to practice so you and a buddy get guaranteed marks no matter the outcome. 

I agree with you 100%, I'd also consider that to be farming for sure - that's why I'm bringing it up here. The point in sinking is to make it a real battle with a real loss - without anything to lose you fight differently and take more risks.

The problem is that not everyone is capable of affording ships worth 10mil every day for the sake of a 1v1 practice. What I'd personally love to see is a 1v1 duel room where the loser will lose his ship but the winner gets no PvP marks. if the winner gets no PvP marks then it's likely not going to take any PvP away from the open world since the duel room will only punish the loser. The only thing you will stand to gain from the duel room is experience.

@admin is a 1v1 duel room something you'd consider if the players only stand to lose? You could even put a fee on using it (100k per battle). I doubt that would take anything away from the open world PvP.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[NethrosDefectus]

49 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

But I don't understand. Even if it's practice and you 1v1 with really cheap ships 2 times a day you're farming to me. There is no point sinking unless you want to pretend to practice so you and a buddy get guaranteed marks no matter the outcome. 

But I think that assumes the two "buddies" would be pooling marks. I think in this case the idea is purely to arrange guaranteed 1v1 or even 2v2 etc without fear of others ruining it. I assume the concern is how often you could "legally" do it

[Navalus Magnus]

50 minutes ago, sveno said:

With the duel room, as the old was, fights start as soon two equal ships are in, it is easier to train new people closely.

The other upsides of the change from Fleet Practice to Duel Room are:
- More captains searching group fights in OW (losless group fights shouldn't really be a thing anyway).
- Less duels on OW which could be mistaken as farming (consider some guys want revange or repeat with an other class of ship).
- Great place to learn 1 vs 1 PvP properly without to much bleeding (which has lead to people leave the game before).

I completely agree!

18 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

What I'd personally love to see is a 1v1 duel room where the loser will lose his ship but the winner gets no PvP marks.

Imo it would be better to have a duell room with the same conditions as the fleet practice room has now:

- no rewards

- no losses

-> Just training!

That would - as sveno already pointed out - give players, unexperienced in PvP, a chance to learn, without getting frustrated too much!

And at the same time it would keep the incentives of going into OW battles to prove aquired skills and get rewards.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Navalus Magnus

[Navalus Magnus]

1 hour ago, admin said:

i kind of agree with the group fights. but we know people want practice group fights and cannot find them without messy tags in the open world (if HRE wants to practice with HRE)
 

Would you implement a duell room nonetheless?

[Percival Merewether]

14 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Imo it would be better to have a duell room with the same conditions as the fleet practice room has now:

- no rewards

- no losses

-> Just training!

That would - as sveno already pointed out - give players, unexperienced in PvP, a chance to learn, without getting frustrated too much!

Then I think we should at the very least have the option to enable shiploss, otherwise people will not learn how to escape a battle. I’m also worried that no loss will discourage OW hunts and hurt the practice by encouraging ‘foolish’ moves.

Either way I believe a duel room would be a great addition to the game. We need to be able to teach aspiring PvPers in a closed enviroment.

[Navalus Magnus]

4 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

Then I think we should at the very least have the option to enable shiploss, otherwise people will not learn how to escape a battle. I’m also worried that no loss will discourage OW hunts and hurt the practice by encouraging ‘foolish’ moves.

Either way I believe a duel room would be a great addition to the game. We need to be able to teach aspiring PvPers in a closed enviroment.

I would also be fine with an option to enable or disable the shiploss, but i don't think that a duell room without it would influence players behaviour in OW battles in a bad way!

Quite the opposite: Right now players don't have the chance to try different strategies without risking thier ships.

With a duell room they could try different things and learn which ones grant better chances to fight successfully.

And imo that - train how to fight successfull, not how to run away - should be the purpose of a duell room.

If players get outnumbered in OW battles they learn how to run - most of the time rather quick!

[Farrago]

Duel room is a good idea. I’d prefer a no permanent loss and no reward so it could be used for training. If folks want to use it for more, they can place their gold or mark wagers privately.

[jodgi]

I loved the duel room. If it came back I'd just sit in global chat and go "duel anyone?".

In a loss-less environment that doesn't hurt anyone, but in OW where we need to coerce and incentivize players to risk their stuff to the gankbox it may not be harmless?