Punish PvP mark farming harder

[Palatinose]

I see four or five important things one can buy with pvp marks. VM, Navy Hull Refit, Navy Structure Refit, Carpenter Combat Reports and Navy Loadsman Report (only useful for traders or those that do the worst kind of ganking). As many have the skill books meanwhile, pvp marks will decrease in their value. VMs will be available for many after the next patch. Let's see how much farming we will see then. Cosmetics for marks would also be fine.

I don't know, I feel like it needs something to make pvp special and different from pve. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Palatinose

[Fargo]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

The community is small

And with such mechanics its never going to grow.

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

They are valueable, that is a good thing.

They are valuable, because their rewards are special npc goods artificially made rare and OP/highly demanded. Such marks and items are designed to force specific gameplay. Thats not a good thing. Especially when the headline says "sandbox". Marks just reduce it to PvP for the sake of PvP. In their current form they even demote you to play together while everyone is hunting for the kill. PvP could be so much more than this.

I wonder where this is going. Trade marks? Crafting marks? Place contract marks? Shipbuilder marks? Surrender marks? Sail no firstrate marks? Just need to design enough demanded items... 

If you want rankings, why not do a proper ranking system based on win/loose ratio and enemy rating. With BR and based on battle outcomes instead of pure kills you can do this in a very fair and reasonable way even for all kind of group fights.

[Corona Lisa]

3 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Such marks and items are designed to force specific gameplay. Thats not a good thing. Especially when the headline says "sandbox".

Same can be said for crafting.

 

Im sick of discussing with PvE players about PvP marks when this topic is about punsishment of farming not the PvP marks itself.

[Fargo]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Same can be said for crafting.

 

Im sick of discussing with PvE players about PvP marks when this topic is about punsishment of farming not the PvP marks itself.

Im not a PvE player, and crafting has nothing to do with PvE either. So how are you going to handle punishment with multiple full servers? You dont.

No its not the same...

[Corona Lisa]

2 minutes ago, Fargo said:

So how are you going to handle punishment with multiple full servers?

Just like now. People make tribunals with evidence and the abusers get punished. Difference is with higher punishment you have less cases because it hurts more so less people risk it.

 

Rest is off topic.

[Palatinose]

@Jon Snow lets go what's the current punishment? 1st time one rank demotion for alt and main? 2nd time? I don't know?

Imo first violation and insta ban is just a bad idea. Feels a bit like death penalty. Your proposal doesn't seem bad Jon.

The assets being removed sounds also okay @Jean Ribault though this leads to player quitting aka death penalty aswell. I don't belive in absolute strategies. There always should be a second chance.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Palatinose

[Corona Lisa]

2 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

@Jon Snow lets go what's the current punishment? 1st time one rank demotion for alt and main? 2nd time? I don't know?

Idk either. Maybe @admin can clarify

Edited February 7, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[Christendom]

16 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Idk either. Maybe @admin can clarify

They are demoting people for first offense.  

 

No Marks = No Alt Farming.  A better method needs to be found than constantly punishing the offenders.  

[Fargo]

6 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Just like now. People make tribunals with evidence and the abusers get punished. Difference is with higher punishment you have less cases because it hurts more so less people risk it.

Why would you try that when you can avoid it by thoughtful game design? PvP marks are the opposite. Seems pointless to discuss with shortminded PvPers. Realise that NA is not supposed to be a brainless PvP arena.

[Palatinose]

5 minutes ago, Christendom said:

A better method needs to be found than constantly punishing the offenders. 

Well we have to name them. I don't have ideas. But just removing the marks without a proper idea isn't the way to go is it?

[Christendom]

1 minute ago, Palatinose said:

Well we have to name them. I don't have ideas. But just removing the marks without a proper idea isn't the way to go is it?

A better method exists.  Victory and combat marks.  Adjust the values for the items that were once PVP marks.  

It's more difficult to farm PBs for victory marks that it is to kill alts for PVP marks.  Unless you're lord vicious of course.

[Palatinose]

Well I admit my perspective on this matter is the one of a pvper so I basically think it's fine atm. Those farming are mostly rightaway reported. Perhaps that's kinda naive though. We had the only combat and vic mark thingy. From my pov the problem is: in pve i take a big boat and make big damage and get big gold and cm's for it. In pvp that's just not the case (except for large scale pb's). Even if we donated five times the cm's for pvp, pve would just be more profitable. There would just a big gap between the risk reward thingy. I lose between 3-10 ships a week. I can afford this because pvp marks can be sold for quite shiny sums. If only combat marks were a currency, how should the pvpers make a living? 

So I think the current way is okay (considering the next vm patch). Bit more drastical penalties and we're good to go. I'm just a simple minded and braindead pvper though 

[Palatinose]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

But incentivizing PvP by giving winners the means to win only creates incentives for the losers to cheat or quit.

Not the case anymore. For ow pvp only Navy Hull Refit and Carpenter Combat Reports are of interest. The rest is pve rng loot or craftable.

[Jean Ribault]

6 hours ago, Palatinose said:

...

The assets being removed sounds also okay @Jean Ribault though this leads to player quitting aka death penalty aswell. I don't belive in absolute strategies. There always should be a second chance.

 

Why would anyone want to continue to play with cheaters though?

[John Cavanaugh]

While not a complete fix, keeping track of the ID of the last 2-3 accounts sunk by a particular player and paying out no rewards for an additional kill would at least reduce the problem of alt farming

[Thonys]

16 hours ago, H2O said:

Deal with it, people will farm and you can't stop it. I can take my alts and dualbox anywhere I want, make it look like a pvp fight and let 1 sink. How can you prevent it?  It's still a pvp fight. 

 

Mmm yes ...

but you will be on the server as a line,. spotted for recognition

even when dual boxing,.. perhaps it should say,... player x sunk or boarded player y for the 29 time...a day

that will show foul play.

 

ask yourself,  why shall we play with cheaters.

just like olympic game with doping/drugged players...  >>  they lose their medal and exclusion from  the games.

but just... a talk... is wrong ...you will get more cheaters and more and more...

until the game has become unplayable ,and you will have the game of pandora  where the game can not be saved anymore from cheaters (flooded behaviour)

 

before the pvp marks,... we did not have this kind of mass foul behaviour...

 

devs  don't talk... >>> but  do something about it. 

 

one talk a day, isn't going to save your pray

one ban a day , wantsme make to stay.

one mark in your life, for cheating on your account

will not save a captains soul , for being proud.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Thonys

[Landsman]

19 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

So many reports for alt farming, PvP farming etc...

Maybe demoting some ranks is not enough?

 

How about people get a 3 day ban first time they do this, a week ban the 2nd time and perma ban the 3rd time? For all involved accounts of course.

 

Then maybe people start getting afraid of the punsihment and dont risk doing it anymore.

I used to think exactly the same but honestly you can't catch them all. I reported some suspicious cases multiple times, that turned out to be legit battles ( I just guessed it was farming from combat news but one of the for example was a dude with small dick Wasa that killed like 5 noobs in 15 min ). Also it is hard to determine what is farming. You go sealclub some noobs in small ships only for the marks, it's farming too in my book but legit. This Darkjoker dude made hundreds of marks by farming new players and carebears around Jamaica for example. Also you can't punish people for duelling their friends, now can you? The only people you can really ban are those that sink their alt multiple times a day so it is investigated by the devs ( I hope at least ) and they can see fairly certain it is a alt being farmed ).

A better system would be to have a reputation system and give marks for kills depending on the destroyed players reputation. So let's say master Liq kills 3 plebs other players and they were all on frigates - he is now worth 15 PvP marks on a kill until he was sunk and his "value" is set back to 0 and all players with 0 are worth only 1 PvP mark per kill ( unless basic cutter or recently killed ). Now this is just an example and there are sure better ways or at least this system could be improved but here you can't farm the marks that easily anymore. 

Can't really blame people for abusing the system, when it is that easy, now can you?

Edited February 8, 2018 by Landsman

[Liq]

37 minutes ago, Landsman said:

I used to think exactly the same but honestly you can't catch them all. I reported some suspicious cases multiple times, that turned out to be legit battles ( I just guessed it was farming from combat news but one of the for example was a dude with small dick Wasa that killed like 5 noobs in 15 min ). Also it is hard to determine what is farming. You go sealclub some noobs in small ships only for the marks, it's farming too in my book but legit. This Darkjoker dude made hundreds of marks by farming new players and carebears around Jamaica for example. Also you can't punish people for duelling their friends, now can you? The only people you can really ban are those that sink their alt multiple times a day so it is investigated by the devs ( I hope at least ) and they can see fairly certain it is a alt being farmed ).

A better system would be to have a reputation system and give marks for kills depending on the destroyed players reputation. So let's say master Liq kills 3 plebs other players and they were all on frigates - he is now worth 15 PvP marks on a kill until he was sunk and his "value" is set back to 0 and all players with 0 are worth only 1 PvP mark per kill ( unless basic cutter or recently killed ). Now this is just an example and there are sure better ways or at least this system could be improved but here you can't farm the marks that easily anymore. 

Can't really blame people for abusing the system, when it is that easy, now can you?

Problem with that system:

If a player is worth 30 pvp marks after sinking a lot of enemies, what stops him from asking a friend of other nation (or alt) to sink him in a cheap store ship and they split rewards?

[jodgi]

20 hours ago, Wraith said:

People don't need incentives to fight in an open world, sandbox war game.

I've never seen such a need to incentivize people to fight as we experience here. Whatever can you mean? 

20 hours ago, Wraith said:

Leave the leaderboards and loot crates for bite-sized Legends players....

Leaderboards are in, but please, leave the loot and rng drops in OW.

The open and passive aggression towards Legends fascinate me.

[Landsman]

1 hour ago, Liq said:

Problem with that system:

If a player is worth 30 pvp marks after sinking a lot of enemies, what stops him from asking a friend of other nation (or alt) to sink him in a cheap store ship and they split rewards?

Then he loses only a bit of value every time he is killed... first time worth 30 then 20 then 10 then 1 again ( if he doesnt sink someone himself meanwhile ). At least in this system you would have to sink 2 ships to abuse it - the first to get the reputation value up and then another to get the marks... not saying it can't be abused but it's better than what we have now.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

"soulbound" marks.

 

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Rather destroy the eco of marks and make them soulbound and have the modules and books added to player library/blueprints.

Rather have the proper eco working.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

But what does it change? The pvp mark farmer then just buys the books etc and trades these?

They will be added to his library/blueprint collection automatically. No items. aka. congratulations, your alts have now 49,999% more entries in their library/blueprint plans.

[Corona Lisa]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

I used to think exactly the same but honestly you can't catch them all.

Yeah, but we can reduce the amount of alt farmers drastically.

Also when you farm theres always the risk of some1 jumping in and reporting it.

Problem is right now who cares if the alt gets demoted 2 ranks if he has gotten PvP marks for the next 6 months.

 

Alt farming is low risk high reward atm

[Corona Lisa]

Just now, Hethwill said:

They will be added to his library/blueprint collection automatically. No items. aka. congratulations, your alts have now 49,999% more entries in their library/blueprint plans.

This will force me to do crafting for ships and PvE for money instead of paying crafters and PvEers with PvP marks.

PvPers have the most ship demand and if they craft everything themselves it means we get even less player to player trading.