Boarding advisory 2/2/2018

[Sea Fox]

16 minutes ago, Odol said:

Actually they were used to pull also.  Sometimes if a ship got to close the rigging could get tangled.  But it wasnt that common. 

As seen here, the Nelson's Patented Bridge for Boarding 1st Rates."

From what I'm seeing in all these pictures all of the ships have had the hell beat out of them so my question is, from historical standpoint is not boarding a 4th or 5th or final step in the battle? 

Boarding is historically accurate and I'm glad it's in the game, but I don't think it should be a first and only step in the battle. 

Was there ever a battle in history where a ship zoomed up to another ship and boarded them and the battle was over in a minute and a half without a single Cannon shot being fired by the attacker? 

I just think boarding shouldn't be possible unless defender sails are below 75% and attacking boarding party is at 100% 

[Barbancourt]

Hey, if they stop to be boarded why not?  A pristine prize would seem desirable. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

From what I'm seeing in all these pictures all of the ships have had the hell beat out of them so my question is, from historical standpoint is not boarding a 4th or 5th or final step in the battle? 

Boarding is historically accurate and I'm glad it's in the game, but I don't think it should be a first and only step in the battle. 

Was there ever a battle in history where a ship zoomed up to another ship and boarded them and the battle was over in a minute and a half without a single Cannon shot being fired by the attacker? 

I just think boarding shouldn't be possible unless defender sails are below 75% and attacking boarding party is at 100% 

If your getting boarded without firing a shot sounds like that person is doing something wrong.  We don't spawn in right on top of each other so there is still slight delay of engagements which gives you the time to fight back and try to avoid it.  Normally when you see the instant rage board it's cause some one was being a noob and got stuck in iron from the very start of the battle.

Though I do think they need to bring back leaks form Ramming as these ships were not made to ram and it could do a lot of damage to the ship.

[Bristol Fashion]

17 minutes ago, maturin said:

See Boudriot's The Seventy-Four Gun Ship. This is the described as the best possible means of initiating a boarding action. Letting them T-Bone you. albeit at a shallow angle. Obviously best if this isn't happening at 11 knots, but that's a ramming issue, not a boarding issue.

I suppose that's true however I would make the argument that boarding is far too "clean" in NA and hence the frustration of boarding angles.

So for instance they can "grapple" your bowsprit and pull you to their ship and the boarding situation is identical to as if they were laying along side or boarding through the galleries, etc. I think NA needs to have a far more dynamic boarding system before it will feel realistic, even though boarding from these angles was plausible, the way it's pulled off in NA makes it feel quite fake.

[Sea Fox]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

If your getting boarded without firing a shot sounds like that person is doing something wrong.  We don't spawn in right on top of each other so there is still slight delay of engagements which gives you the time to fight back and try to avoid it.  Normally when you see the instant rage board it's cause some one was being a noob and got stuck in iron from the very start of the battle.

Though I do think they need to bring back leaks form Ramming as these ships were not made to ram and it could do a lot of damage to the ship.

I haven't personally been boarded in a long time. But I try my best to not enter into any boarding action. I do recall a few instances of being rage boarded by a few pirate frigates me in atrinc a d in a surprise and I think even in frigate

[TommyShelby]

2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 

@TommyShelby Maybe you can help me out here?  Why devs made the current meta even stronger?  Why exactly the current meta?  Tell me there is nothing weird in this?  Was there a conversation at testing forum about this?  Why would devs do something like this?

I honestly have not played enough with the latest changes to know the "meta". 

Currently;
Demasting is very easy if you have decent aim and know at which range you can penetrate the different sections. (But at the same time, i see many people shooting masts for very long time, not being able to demast.)
Shooting Hull is super easy with new thickness values, and so destroying the Hull is super easy. 

So in my opinion, it is hard to tell. But as i said i have only had limited time to test the new stuff. (I would say Mast HP deserves to be slightly buffed though.) 

[maturin]

3 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

Was there ever a battle in history where a ship zoomed up to another ship and boarded them and the battle was over in a minute and a half without a single Cannon shot being fired by the attacker?

Sure, Surcouf vs Kent, Speedy vs El Gamo mostly meet that description.

[Blackjack Morgan]

I don't understand why every warship just doesn't come with marines as part of the ships complement of crew. I thought it was pretty much standard practice for a man of war to have a complement of marines? I'll let someone school me up on this if I'm mistaken.  

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

4 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

I don't understand why every warship just doesn't come with marines as part of the ships complement of crew. I thought it was pretty much standard practice for a man of war to have a complement of marines? I'll let someone school me up on this if I'm mistaken.  

Certainly RN ships carried a small compliment of Marines, They functioned as guards on the Captains quarters to help prevent  mutiny,  they formed landing and boarding parties and were normally the sharpshooters up in the rigging tasked with killing off enemy Officers. It is not known for certain, but it may have been a French Marine who shot Nelson, certainly none of the Redoubtable's crew who were captured owned up to being, or indicated who the man was, to be fair one could not blame them, so sadly, the identity of the man who carried out his duty will never be known.

[WMvD]

2 hours ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Certainly RN ships carried a small compliment of Marines, They functioned as guards on the Captains quarters to help prevent  mutiny,  they formed landing and boarding parties and were normally the sharpshooters up in the rigging tasked with killing off enemy Officers. It is not known for certain, but it may have been a French Marine who shot Nelson, certainly none of the Redoubtable's crew who were captured owned up to being, or indicated who the man was, to be fair one could not blame them, so sadly, the identity of the man who carried out his duty will never be known.

Correct on the presence and role of the Marinecontigent of a ship's complement. On the shooting of Nelson, I think I've read somewhere that the entire crew of the Redoutable's masttop from whence the shot came was killed in a hail of musketfire from Victory.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

2 minutes ago, WMvD said:

Correct on the presence and role of the Marinecontigent of a ship's complement. On the shooting of Nelson, I think I've read somewhere that the entire crew of the Redoutable's masttop from whence the shot came was killed in a hail of musketfire from Victory.

It is very likely that may have been the case, it would have been a matter of priority to safeguard the Officer cadre by countering the masthead sharpshooters, and, would have been the most logical reaction from the  British Marines following Nelson's very public wounding.

Given that Nelson had also been urged by Captain Hardy and other officers not to wear his Star of the Garter on his uniform during the battle as it singled him out from other officers on deck, I think Hardy was less than 3 feet from him at the time ( the site being roughly in the centre of the Quarterdeck, if memory serves from my last visit to Victory) which would have been the logical place for the Captain to confer with his Admiral, it could have just as easily been Hardy who got shot as Nelson but for the star which was quite large, distinctive, and easily made out even from aloft.

[Corona Lisa]

What is Barricades doing?

Ingame description is: Melee Bonus, Firepower Bonus which sounds like it buffs Attack, Musket Volley etc.

But in devs google docs and here in startpost its described as defensive upgrade as if its only working when using Brace or Defend.

H4lp

Edited February 3, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[Licinio Chiavari]

52 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Marines got a HUGE nerf.

When and what?

[Vile Executioner]

22 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

From what I'm seeing in all these pictures all of the ships have had the hell beat out of them so my question is, from historical standpoint is not boarding a 4th or 5th or final step in the battle? 

Boarding is historically accurate and I'm glad it's in the game, but I don't think it should be a first and only step in the battle. 

Was there ever a battle in history where a ship zoomed up to another ship and boarded them and the battle was over in a minute and a half without a single Cannon shot being fired by the attacker? 

I just think boarding shouldn't be possible unless defender sails are below 75% and attacking boarding party is at 100% 

yes, actually blackbeard was known to board one ship with 3-4 different ships at the same time. there was never a rule of "cant board with 3 knot minimum" lol being boarded by multiple small nimble ships at any speed was a danger to any ship. yes it wasn't done in a minute and a half but yes, boarding is done this way just like in modern times. Somalian pirates zoom up and board in a dingy. could you imagine a frigate? 10 knots is not that fast, the coast guard boards speed boats all the time going way faster than this if anything the game for boarding is no where near historically accurate and its a good thing. if the game was historically accurate for boarding, you could board at any speed with crew risk, and multiple ships could board one ship. I don't think you want that do ya?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

What is Barricades doing?

Ingame description is: Melee Bonus, Firepower Bonus which sounds like it buffs Attack, Musket Volley etc.

But in devs google docs and here in startpost its described as defensive upgrade as if its only working when using Brace or Defend.

H4lp

I've done a few tests, and barricades seemed to be completely defensive. 

I think the key wording is that it says Barricades_Melee_Bonus, meaning you get a defensive melee bonus. The language is very vague though..

[DeRuyter]

19 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

yes, actually blackbeard was known to board one ship with 3-4 different ships at the same time. there was never a rule of "cant board with 3 knot minimum" lol being boarded by multiple small nimble ships at any speed was a danger to any ship. yes it wasn't done in a minute and a half but yes, boarding is done this way just like in modern times. Somalian pirates zoom up and board in a dingy. could you imagine a frigate? 10 knots is not that fast, the coast guard boards speed boats all the time going way faster than this if anything the game for boarding is no where near historically accurate and its a good thing. if the game was historically accurate for boarding, you could board at any speed with crew risk, and multiple ships could board one ship. I don't think you want that do ya?

10 knts was very fast for a sailing warship in battle. It is also faster than you think when you are on a collision course with another boat too. Normally it was not like in game where everyone is at full sails most of the time. Unless the wind was very light (Trafalgar) ships reduced sail for maneuvering reducing the speed at which the battles were fought. Additionally a collision at 10 knts would do considerable damage to both ships rigging. 

Comparing modern speed boats is really apples and oranges since they are much faster and more maneuverable, it is possible to zoom up and stop etc.  I always thought that the coast guard hailed for you to stop first anyway. I am sure you have a video  of a cutter boarding a drug runner at 20 knts then? 

 

[Sea Fox]

7 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

yes, actually blackbeard was known to board one ship with 3-4 different ships at the same time. there was never a rule of "cant board with 3 knot minimum" lol being boarded by multiple small nimble ships at any speed was a danger to any ship. yes it wasn't done in a minute and a half but yes, boarding is done this way just like in modern times. Somalian pirates zoom up and board in a dingy. could you imagine a frigate? 10 knots is not that fast, the coast guard boards speed boats all the time going way faster than this if anything the game for boarding is no where near historically accurate and its a good thing. if the game was historically accurate for boarding, you could board at any speed with crew risk, and multiple ships could board one ship. I don't think you want that do ya?

Nice, but did Blackbeard do this to warships hunting him or just traders he bushwacked?

I can't imagine him zooming up to a frigate loaded and ready to sink him with full crew compliment ready for him

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

Nice, but did Blackbeard do this to warships hunting him or just traders he bushwacked?

I can't imagine him zooming up to a frigate loaded and ready to sink him with full crew compliment ready for him

 

A problem was surely pirates rarely sailing anything bigger than a schooner...

[GrubbyZebra]

On 2/2/2018 at 5:49 PM, Sea Fox said:

From what I'm seeing in all these pictures all of the ships have had the hell beat out of them so my question is, from historical standpoint is not boarding a 4th or 5th or final step in the battle? 

Boarding is historically accurate and I'm glad it's in the game, but I don't think it should be a first and only step in the battle. 

Was there ever a battle in history where a ship zoomed up to another ship and boarded them and the battle was over in a minute and a half without a single Cannon shot being fired by the attacker? 

Yes:

HMS Shannon v. USS Chesapeake. It lasted 10-15 minutes. After the Shannon killed most of the quarterdeck officers and crew early in the battle, the Shannon was able to take advantage of the confusion on board Chesapeake and board her, quickly moving through what crew remained on deck to fight, and then was able to force a surrender as there was no way for those that took refuge below to fight their way out.

Edited February 4, 2018 by BPHick
Because typing at 3AM with no sleep is never a good idea....

[GrubbyZebra]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:17 PM, maturin said:

Sure, Surcouf vs Kent, Speedy vs El Gamo mostly meet that description.

Speedy v El Gamo was an incredible feat. I don't think that could happen in the game.

[Bristol Fashion]

11 hours ago, BPHick said:

Yes:

HMS Java v. USS Chesapeake. It lasted 10-15 minutes. After the Java killed most of the quarterdeck officers and crew early in the battle, the Java was able to take advantage of the confusion on board Chesapeake and board her, quickly moving through what crew remained on deck to fight, and then was able to force a surrender as there was no way for those that took refuge below to fight their way out.

First of all, it wasn't Java. It was Shannon. Second, you should read the post you are replying to before commenting. Sea Fox asked if a boarding action could happen so fast WITHOUT the attacker firing her cannons.

In the example you tried to give, Shannon and Chesapeake exchanged point blank broadsides in which Chesapeake suffered heavily. One of the shots caused the crew to lose control of her and she was turned into the wind and blown backwards, her stern striking Shannon, whose crew could then rake the deck with grape shot. The boarding action occurred after most of Chesapeake's top side crew was devastated and her officers wounded or killed.

[Malachi]

7 minutes ago, Bristol Fashion said:

In the example you tried to give, Shannon and Chesapeake exchanged point blank broadsides in which Chesapeake suffered heavily

By the way, Shannon was a 'fir' ship, Chesapeake LO.

[GrubbyZebra]

14 minutes ago, Bristol Fashion said:

First of all, it wasn't Java. It was Shannon. Second, you should read the post you are replying to before commenting. Sea Fox asked if a boarding action could happen so fast WITHOUT the attacker firing her cannons.

In the example you tried to give, Shannon and Chesapeake exchanged point blank broadsides in which Chesapeake suffered heavily. One of the shots caused the crew to lose control of her and she was turned into the wind and blown backwards, her stern striking Shannon, whose crew could then rake the deck with grape shot. The boarding action occurred after most of Chesapeake's top side crew was devastated and her officers wounded or killed.

Your right, I was busy thinking of recreating the java and connie fight in game, and confounded the two. Apologies for typing at 3am.

As for what Sea Fox was asking, I took it a little less literally. Sue me.

Edited February 4, 2018 by BPHick

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Give me a few days, will find you a handful of examples all within NA timeframe.

But the Isabella, commander Hornsby, against the Brancas, captain André, comes to mind although the boarding action lasted very long ( they always do ) the numbers are stuff of legend.

[Malachi]

Didn't Tordenskjold rage-board a SoL with a frigate during the Great Northern War? Could have happened in an harbour, though, it's been a while since I read the story.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Malachi