Well it's happening....(huge port exploit)

[Batman]

Why does the US not leave that black hole area and capture some ports elsewhere on the map? I don't understand.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Batman said:

Why does the US not leave that black hole area and capture some ports elsewhere on the map? I don't understand.

You're missing the point.

[Batman]

Your point is, that some ex US guys have a personal vendetta against the US and that you could lose a port or two due to that.

I think I already told in the past that GB had similar issues with KBEAR clan, who went to pirates and removed everybody from friends list, so that nobody could defend the ports.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Explain this.

 

US civil war was after the timeframe and the point remains. In neither civil wars did the colonies participate. France did loose Saint Domingue during their revolution but that was a slave rebellion and not due to the civil war.. More of an opportunitic move when france was weak.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

You're missing the point.

If RvR and PvP is a problem there's always the PvE server...

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Bearwall said:

US civil war was after the timeframe and the point remains. In neither civil wars did the colonies participate. France did loose Saint Domingue during their revolution but that was a slave rebellion and not due to the civil war.. More of an opportunitic move when france was weak.

So historically, there was infighting inside nations. Rebellions were quelled. Why can't we have that in game? I don't understand how you wouldn't want this ability when it's almost a given in any context of war or nations. This IS pvp server after all.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Maybe join Poland. Get out from the political nightmare and civil war state that is the United States? These sort of issues seem to be a constant thing with you guys.

[Kloothommel]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

Spain-Russia allied

US-Spain allied

Russia-US hostile

trololol

Russia - US friendly. ROGUE are dicks.

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

Maybe join Poland. Get out from the political nightmare and civil war state that is the United States? These sort of issues seem to be a constant thing with you guys.

True, but it just shows the flaws of the game. Maybe if we had the ability to quell these rebellions, settle these differences within our nation, then we could come out better. 
I think that's as profound as gameplay can get and really reflects on history and humanity. Yet it isn't possible. We've seem to adopted the modern trend of sending proxy armies to fight our enemies instead of facing them ourselves. Even AGAINST ourselves.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Big problem. Who are you, or me, or another player, to define some clan as Rebels ?

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

True, but it just shows the flaws of the game. Maybe if we had the ability to quell these rebellions, settle these differences within our nation, then we could come out better. 
I think that's as profound as gameplay can get and really reflects on history and humanity. Yet it isn't possible. We've seem to adopted the modern trend of sending proxy armies to fight our enemies instead of facing them ourselves.

On US server people have already seen what happens when another faction quells their rebellious counterparts in an internal nation dispute and it wasn't pretty. Lost a lot of players to the server that way. The United States will always be a faction is very split and creates its own internal strife. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

Big problem. Who are you, or me, or another player, to define some clan as Rebels ?

 

Good question, how are they defined in history?

Also, in this case here? Are TDY/ROGUE the rebels, or is the rest of the US nation the rebels?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Davos Seasworth said:

On US server people have already seen what happens when another faction quells their rebellious counterparts in an internal nation dispute and it wasn't pretty. Lost a lot of players to the server that way. The United States will always be a faction is very split and creates its own internal strife. 

If you are talking about the pirates, they were very strong on global with outlaw battles. Best in the server actually.

Point is if there is war, there's civil war. They're two sides of the same coin. To deny that is to deny reality and there's no reason to not have it in game.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

So historically, there was infighting inside nations. Rebellions were quelled. Why can't we have that in game? I don't understand how you wouldn't want this ability when it's almost a given in any context of war or nations. This IS pvp server after all.

Because the ports in the carribean was colonies. Most of them had barely the ressources to survive (historically) without the aid of their homelands.. Most produced cash crops and were entirely dependant on the goods they could get from Europe. And it was in a period of increasing centralization of power and institutionalizing both armies, navies and justicial departments. Interestingly tho - even during the british civilwars where Oliver Cromwell took off the head of Charles I the colonies at no point rebelled against the central authority stemming from Europe - even when that authority was in turmoil.

In short - Civil wars was just not possible.

Solution: Remove all national factions, redo the map (33% of the map is atm not used - atlantic and pacific oceans) and since we've already given up on the notion of any historical pretense with the introduction of Prussia, Russia and Poland-Lithuania (I'm holding my breath for China and Japan - I'd love to sail under the flag of the Tokugawa-Shogunate), we might as well remove all reminiscence of historical pretext.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Bearwall said:

In short - Civil wars was just not possible.

As a self admitted history buff, I have to disagree. Even if it didn't happen as perfectly as two even sides fighting for absolute power, it still happened and should be possible in game.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

5 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Good question, how are they defined in history?

Also, in this case here? Are TDY/ROGUE the rebels, or is the rest of the US nation the rebels?

Given that a Major colonial power is moving in to intervene and establish control and order over the area...

... no idea. Tories and Patriots games ?

[Odol]

Isn't that port in the middle of the US safe zone?   Not like anyone attacking can do anything to anyone without reinforcements being called in.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

As a self admitted history buff, I have to disagree. Even if it didn't happen as perfectly as two even sides fighting for absolute power, it still happened.

Not in the colonies. Mainland England, France, Spain, Denmark-Norway all experienced civilwars - but not in the colonies.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

Given that a Major colonial power is moving in to intervene and establish control and order over the area...

... no idea. Tories and Patriots games ?

So if it's possible for outside intervention, why not inside? Isn't that kind of the prerequisite?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

So if it's possible for outside intervention, why not inside? Isn't that kind of the prerequisite?

Er... external intervention = Other Nation taking the ports.

You'll be pushed to valley forge situation.

What you gnona do about it !? Claim exploit or fight ?

[Slim McSauce]

So it's already been a problem for multiple nations.

I don't really know what more to say. Pretty much every game I've played that is trying to emulate war knows the importance of civil war/rebellion on the grand scheme of things. It's not even arguable whether we should have it or not. It's a basic fundamental.

I think its crazy to think we don't need or want this.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

Nations don't work, make it a clan-based game. 

Nations CAN work. Look at E.V.E, there are factions but they don't mean too much, just a label for the ships/lore surrounding them.

 Let us ally any clan, and war any clan. Remove the current limitations of nations. Make nations just the backdrop so players have the freedom to do what they want.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Vintorius]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That's not a solution. We knew this prior and we couldn't do anything about it because the game doesn't let us.

This is intentional manipulation of mechanics, the same as alt abuse. It will only get worse from here as more people catch wind that that a single clan who holds 2-3 ports can completely screw over their nation without reprisal.

THIS is why clan wars are necessary. For this exact reason here.

I don't think clan wars are the answer.  I think that would only invite more mayhem.  I could easily see players and alts forming clans in another nation just to invite chaos and in-fighting.  But the nation leadership should have the ability to relinquish ownership of clans that have gone rogue.

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

Sure, nation means ports and flag. But we need clan diplomacy, mercenary system, inter-nations diplomacy of clans etc.

I agree. These are all things that should find their way into the game.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Vintorius said:

I don't think clan wars are the answer.  I think that would only invite more mayhem.  I could easily see players and alts forming clans in another nation just to invite chaos and in-fighting.  But the nation leadership should have the ability to relinquish ownership of clans that have gone rogue.

Well, what stops alts from joining a nation now and causing mayhem? You can't kill an alt in your nation. Even if you 100% know they're an alt you can't do anything against them. I'd rather have the control in my hands to STOP the mayhem than let it run rampant un-touchable. 

Look at all the alt abuse we've seen so far. All the spies. Maybe if we could kill these people they'd realize that they don't have their alt-armor anymore and stick to their mains to keep control of their own nation.