Lack of chasers severly limits gameplay

[Liq]

Ill get right to the point

Why is it that certain 5th rates do not have bow / stern chasers? Lack of stern chasers severely limits OW raiding / solo hunting - Trincomalee as example could be a great ship, I would sail it a lot, but what puts me off is the lack of stern chasers. Since I mostly sail alone, there is literally no hope from escaping a super gank. Don't get me wrong, I like a challenging fight, taking a 1v2 1v3 or whatever. But at some point it just becomes impossible (Unless you're Ram Dinark). 

Can't just all 5th rates get at least 2 of each chasers, since from my knowledge, in reality it was not much of a deal to move guns on carriages in place to use them as chasers?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Liq

[Slim McSauce]

I think this should be an upgrade or knowledge for all ships. Even if its just 1 gun, normally if a gun we needed for or aft the crew would put one there, not just go without.

The Essex had slots to mount a side gun on the front, the "saddle gun" which we still don't have.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Spitfire83]

Oh come on Liq your so op I think you should have all stern & bow guns removed...

I think historical accuracy was the answer to this question. But I must admit it would make certain ships a more viable option increasing diversity 

[Malachi]

'Abundance of chasers severly limits gameplay' would have been my topic title. There are too many ships that have those while they shouldn't. 

[IceBurg]

Yah, Liquicity, i think your six or seven alts should start a petition, that should do it

 

[Liq]

3 minutes ago, Gibbralter said:

Yah, Liquicity, i think your six or seven alts should start a petition, that should do it

 

5

and good idea thx

[Odol]

18 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I think this should be an upgrade or knowledge for all ships. Even if its just 1 gun, normally if a gun we needed for or aft the crew would put one there, not just go without.

The Essex had slots to mount a side gun on the front, the "saddle gun" which we still don't have.

It is funny, because the Essex has the space for this gun on the model but yet doesnt have an actual gun there.

But ships like the Prince has "saddle" guns but it actually has chasers in game.

 

Hmmm....

[H2O]

Poor Essex...waste of such a beautiful ship. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by H2O

[Malachi]

Ja, ja...poor Essex. If you're looking for spare chasers for her, Rattle and Surp have them.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Malachi

[Jarlath Morrow]

While we're wishing for things...

During battle, it would be cool if we could assign the crew to move two guns from the broadsides to the stern, for example.

This would be a small job that takes time and reserves a few crew, and when finished your ship would have stern chasers. They could of course be moved back, with the same cost of crew labor.

[z4ys]

Go admin go admin we want chasers for all ships

On 26.4.2016 at 4:41 PM, admin said:

Its an old maturin proposal and we might have time to consider implementing it.

 

Wind strength was important in the age of sail

 

In the very strong wind frigate could be slower than any slowest line ship

In the very light wind any brig could sail faster than trincomalee at any angle

 

To make all ships valuable global wind strength can be implemented as server weather condition 

• Wind strength will change over time and captains will be able to see the weather projection for a couple of days ahead in the lobby
• If light winds are coming there is no point to sail a heavy frigate - well there is a point but you won't be able to catch anyone because any brig will be faster.
• In heavy winds ships of the line will be faster than frigates 

Speed will become a lesser factor and captain will need to adjust and pick more weatherly ships which can universally sail in varied wind conditions. It will allow to differentiate ships more and make unpopular ships - more popular

 

(another gameplay related thing is to remove chasers from all ships or add them to all ships (even if they don't exist on the model)

 

 

 

additional proposals on differentiating ships are

• compacting hp (ships were not so relatively weak and redoubtable was able to withstand fire from 3 british lineships with no problem)
• increasing roles of critical damage and hits
• much stronger ability of the broadside to tank damage.

 

 

Furthermore make that come true as well:

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by z4ys

[Malachi]

Remove all chasers +1 

go admin go!

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Malachi said:

Remove all chasers +1 

go admin go!

nah.. will make running away way too easy, when realizing you messed up, just rep sails and zoom out, enemy will have to constantly turn to get broadsides off and lose a lot of speed.

Id rather have 2 bow / stern casers at least on every 5th rate

[William Death]

Yes. Give all ships bow and stern chasers. Any ship could mount chasers: moving a broadside gun is not hard, but in fact, most ships already had room for a light cannon or two to be installed in the bow or stern (bridle ports in the bow, and cut outs in the taffrail at the stern).

I've made this suggestion before, and the level of dislike it got from a few players was rather surprising: even to the point of "grasping at straws" to come up with "reasons" why you couldn't move a broadside gun to aim forward. The thread eventually shifted to discussing the need to keep tagged, and in my last post in the thread, I detailed a different method of tagging, where control is default and effective to 2000m, with multiple options of escape or keeping a fleeing enemy in battle.

 

[Malachi]

Quote

Any ship could mount chasers: moving a broadside gun is not hard, but in fact, most ships already had room for a light cannon or two to be installed in the bow or stern (bridle ports in the bow, and cut outs in the taffrail at the stern).

Ah, interesting. Given your great understanding of 18th/19th century naval architecture, care to explain where exactly would have been enough room on the main deck to operate bow chasers on e.g. La Renommée (which didn´t even have bridle ports, by the way) or La Belle Poule? Or an even more interesting question: if it was so easy to mount bow chasers IRL, then why didn´t every ship have them?

1 hour ago, Liq said:

nah.. will make running away way too easy, when realizing you messed up, just rep sails and zoom out, enemy will have to constantly turn to get broadsides off and lose a lot of speed.

Id rather have 2 bow / stern casers at least on every 5t

Totally valid gameplay concern. But I´d put historical accuracy before gameplay in this case and I fully realise that I´m in the absolute minority here. I just fail to see a logical pattern in how the devs distributed chasers among the ships (bow chasers on the Rattle? WTF?), so I think it´s better that none have them to avoid that some ships aren´t sailed at all.

And if we absolutely have to have chasers, then they should be shifted from the broadside guns, which has been suggested countless times before.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Malachi

[z4ys]

 

 

 

 

[HachiRoku]

I remember admin asking about adding, removing and keeping chasers realistic in the past. People wanted real, whatever than meant. I solo with the trinco all the time but when you're solo 2 stern chasers will not help you if you get a revenge fleet of fir fir chase ships to get you. The stern chasers were good with 1 sail rep but now if you have 3 ships chasing you, they will have an average repair timer of 5 min vs 15min. You're dead anyway. 10 noobs trying to catch my trinco will turn downwind to chain me so I wont need the chasers. 3 good players chasing me will know how to tag and how to chase. 2 chasers wont help then either. Just give the trinco a chance, you will come to see that she doesn't need stern chasers to escape revenge ganking anyway  There will be an odd battle everyone one in a while were it could make the difference no doubt, but thats no reason not to sail her. 

[Doug Maoz]

2 hours ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

While we're wishing for things...

During battle, it would be cool if we could assign the crew to move two guns from the broadsides to the stern, for example.

This would be a small job that takes time and reserves a few crew, and when finished your ship would have stern chasers. They could of course be moved back, with the same cost of crew labor.

This would be a very cool system. 

I was thinking it might expand gameplay to have a perm or ship knowledge that lets you add (or move from the broadside) X guns to the bow or stern. That way if some ships are balanced to not have chasers, you can sacrifice some other part of your typical build to have them instead.

[Salty Sails]

You can sail ships like reno or essex, but for good battles you have to sail not alone! If you sail in a small mixed fleet every ship can do a great job, depends on players!

 

So, you don’t need chasers on every ship!

And if you sail alone in enemy waters, it’s only a question of time till some players will hunt you down!

Then, it doesn’t matter how many chasers are on your ship! If you can’t escape with sailing, just fight and die! 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sepp Stuart

[maturin]

Neither the lack nor abundance of chasers is the problem.

The problem is that artificial tag mechanics overinflate the importance of chasers, turning them from a useful perk into a necessity.

A single hit to the sails should not 'tag' an opponent. Serious damage should be required. So the ideal design would involve longer exit timers with a high threshold for restarting the clock.

Of course, that means throwing out the somewhat adequate balance that has been struck thus far.

[Nick the cursed]

Why not have an option to choose to remove 2 or4 cannons on side to move them on stern/bow (if the ship was "historically" able to got 2/4 on stern and/or bow)...

For exemple Pickle got stern ports but no cannons, could be nice to move some cannons, with time loading if needed...

Edited January 17, 2018 by Nick the cursed

[William Death]

1 hour ago, Malachi said:

Ah, interesting. Given your great understanding of 18th/19th century naval architecture, care to explain where exactly would have been enough room on the main deck to operate bow chasers on e.g. La Renommée (which didn´t even have bridle ports, by the way) or La Belle Poule? Or an even more interesting question: if it was so easy to mount bow chasers IRL, then why didn´t every ship have them?

Renommee: One or two 4pdrs on the forecastle deck, have the carpenter fabricate a couple of stout posts to run the tackles to and tie them into the ribs and deck timbers. A competent carpenter and his team should have no problem easily completing a small job like that in a day with a hand saw, a few chisels, hammer, nails, bolts, wrenches, screws, and a bit-brace. Before you get concerned about weight, remember, a small-caliber cannon is roughly the same weight as 3-5 sailors. You can't seriously think that 3-5 sailors in a boarding action running around the forecastle deck would cause it to fall in: these ships were not flimsy. Recoil wouldn't be a problem because the posts that the tackles run to are distributing the load through the ribs, forecastle knees, and deck timbers.

I see plenty of room to either side of the Renommee's bowsprit for a single (or two if the crew doesn't mind a harder time maneuvering up there) 4pd bow chaser (the two guns per side on the quarterdeck are long 4pdrs, for reference).

Or you could pierce the hull forward of the anchor for a bridle port to mount a small chase gun: (although adding a single 4pd cannon to the forecastle deck would be the easier option, and would definitely cause less trouble when beating to windward in a heavy sea).

Reason why every ship didn't have them? You didn't need to keep a fleeing enemy tagged every 2 minutes. Not having guns on the deck there leaves more room for the crew to move about.

In a long chase, it wouldn't surprise me if the Belle Poule's forward most weather deck cannon was moved forward to allow it to fire ahead and try to disable a fleeing enemy's rigging. If you look at the following image, you'll see there is plenty of room for a chase gun on the forecastle (those are long 6pd cannons on the foredeck and quarterdeck). A bit more reinforcing of the bow where the eyebolts for the tackles go, and you'd have no problem mounting some 4pdrs there.

[maturin]

Not sure there's room for guns to recoil there. And Renomee has basically nothing for the tackles, with the cathead timbers in the way.

 

By the way, IRL the best place to chase a ship was from the windward quarter, rather than a pure stern chase. Because you didn't have to keep them 'tagged'.

[Nick the cursed]

"Historically" some of ships, not all (some shooners/corvettes and fregates IG are concerned), was able to move some cannons on the stern/bow and it needed some time. Could be nice to see this feature IG. Have to work about it....

@William DeathReno dont need any chasers, like some ships, she's already fast (and dont've any ports to fit any cannons on his bow)...

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Nick the cursed

[OneEyedSnake]

6 hours ago, William Death said:

Yes. Give all ships bow and stern chasers. Any ship could mount chasers: moving a broadside gun is not hard, but in fact, most ships already had room for a light cannon or two to be installed in the bow or stern (bridle ports in the bow, and cut outs in the taffrail at the stern).

I've made this suggestion before, and the level of dislike it got from a few players was rather surprising: even to the point of "grasping at straws" to come up with "reasons" why you couldn't move a broadside gun to aim forward. The thread eventually shifted to discussing the need to keep tagged, and in my last post in the thread, I detailed a different method of tagging, where control is default and effective to 2000m, with multiple options of escape or keeping a fleeing enemy in battle.

 

You know this playerbase is just one big Dutch rudder right?