Masts made of glass?

[Sea Fox]

Hats off to the Developers for wind and leeway mechanics. I think this has helped to slow down rage boarding that would end a battle in 90 seconds. All recent changes have been great improvements to the realism of the game and gameplay mechanics!

Sometime ago the developers introduced demasting which was very easy. It was unpopular and unrealistic and and so they made necessary tweaks which perfected it. But for some reason we went back to the old system of "Toothpick thin masts". I don't understand why we went back. Is there a better solution than keeping the current mechanic?. Would it be possible to cause the sales to stick in a tacked position (like a damaged rudder)?

There are very few flaws left in the game PVP wise but this is definitely one of them in my opinion

[Powderhorn]

Have you tried using any of the mast thickness modules or skills?  You may find that this helps significantly.

[Sea Fox]

53 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Have you tried using any of the mast thickness modules or skills?  You may find that this helps significantly.

I don't want to give up speed though

[Odol]

9 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

I don't want to give up speed though

Well there is your trade off.  Go fast and be fragile, or go slower and survivable. 

Life is full of choices.... 

[Barbancourt]

21 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

I don't want to give up speed though

There is no winning.  Only ganking (doesn't count as winning) and losing.  You're just choosing the method of your losing. 

 

[Sea Fox]

19 minutes ago, Odol said:

Well there is your trade off.  Go fast and be fragile, or go slower and survivable. 

Life is full of choices.... 

It's not about survivability. It's about a game of demasting you don't have to sink, grape ,chain or board you just demast then do whatever from there. Was in a battle the other night in an oak frigate and got demasted by a fir endy before I could sink it. Now I did have his hull down to nothing.... That was through skill his demasting is through flawed game mechanic. He didn't even try to cover his Stern. He did not even try to avoid getting broadsided. He sailed without a care in the world because he knew he could take out my masts. 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Sea Fox

[Batman]

1 hour ago, Sea Fox said:

I don't want to give up speed though

Elite French Rig + Winged Out Ballast gives you 25% thickness + 36% Mast HP without any speed penalty.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Maybe not optimal game design if it is mandatory to have a specific upgrade or two.

[Sea Fox]

10 minutes ago, Batman said:

Elite French Rig + Winged Out Ballast gives you 25% thickness + 36% Mast HP without any speed penalty.

Thank you. I have winged out ballast book (although I'm not sure if it's available on all ships) and as far as mods go, I like them. I'm all for mods. But they should be there to help in one way or another they shouldn't be nessecary to overcome a broken mechanic...(also they are rediculously over priced and way too hard to get)

[Cmdr RideZ]

What I have understood meta is still charged shot and mast sniping.

Realistic they say.

Sea Fox, there is no easy way to handle that atm.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Cmdr RideZ

[AeRoTR]

I do not think it as realistic. Imagine 6 vs 6 ship combat, everyone shooting at the masts  . I do not think this would be the real deal back in time.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Stacking of multiples of the same type can be an issue.

I suggested a while ago specific slots for type of refit/tweak.

[BallsOfSteel]

Ships never had sex with each other like we could do previously, boarding took skill and determination, not slowing down and turning into them.,

Edited January 10, 2018 by BallsOfSteel

[admin]

2 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

I do not think it as realistic. Imagine 6 vs 6 ship combat, everyone shooting at the masts  . I do not think this would be the real deal back in time.

When we are growing up we accumulate brain patterns. Patterns that we like and recognize and if something does not fit the pattern we think that something is wrong.

But in this case your brain pattern is wrong. Somewhere in the past you read something or played something where ships only shot at hull and that was it. Maybe it was total war or age of sail 2 where they had minimal demasting due to old tech and conservation of fps. That pattern stays and its hard to defeat it. But with time it will change. Like accepting the fact that age of sail ships could sail backwards. Or accepting demasting as one of the key tactics (which could be countered)

Demasting was one of the main tactics
from small action 


to large 50-60 ship battles

 

We have no desire to fight with your brain pattern, but please STOP posting your ideals as facts.

• Say it as it is: you hate (dont like) demasting, 
• dont say its unrealistic and it never happened.

ps

You can counter demasting making it impossible, but you dont want it, because of that brain pattern. Learn to overcome it Captain and you will do better. Equip upgrades to masts, speed does not matter since couple of last patches. 4 mast upgrades slow you down but make demasting impossible, you will enjoy those battles immensely - laughing when enemies spend half an hour trying to get your masts down while you sink them all. 

[Slim McSauce]

Gotta agree with admin here. Yes 32s and 42s and deadly against most ships mast, but frigate v frigate a few buffs will render your mast pretty sturdy. Demasting only goes so far, I'd like to see an example of someone getting canoe'd in an even fight before having any chance to respond. Until then demasting is in a pretty good place imo.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Dear @admin,

15-20 charged shots is enough to take a mast atm.  Less than a full deck.

For example Bellona:

Has 2 decks of cannons that can penetrate bottom section of 4th rates mast.

56 cannons, charged damage 45 on average?

Miss rate 33% = 40 cannons will hit.

40*45 = 1800 mast sniping damage from one broadside.

Miss rate 50% = 28 * 45 =  1260 dmg

A good mast sniper will take 2 masts with one broadside of charged shots?  Am I calculating this correctly?  (Are good snipers even better?)

This kind of accuracy has been achieved in your pictures?  Were they shooting more than one broadside?  Were they sniping?

With hull you took more arcade point of view, we have all protecting hull sides.  You are not balancing the rest with this.  If masts go down in 5-10 minutes and shooting at hull does nothing...  I really dont know what the F you are thinking?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Cmdr RideZ said:

 

Hull is notoriously tough, nerfing thicknesses all around would relieve some of the stress of demasting when you can counter demasters by slugging them in the mouth going hull v hull

Edited January 10, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Dear @admin,

15-20 charged shots is enough to take a mast atm.  Less than a full deck.

 

we are not saying demasting is fully balanced. In previous post we just responded to captains who claimed that demasting is unrealistic and not historical (never happened)

[Cmdr RideZ]

Remember what happened when we had crew & cannon damage from hull side hits?  It did not really matter were you stern raking or sniping masts, it was deadly to sail a side and have a faster reload time than your enemy.  Then just hammer s out from your enemy.  Sounds like a war winning tactic?

Doubling is a real naval tactic if I remember correctly.  This does not really work like it did IRL.  Hard to make working with 0 "internal" damage. Side internal damage will make community unhappy, so probably making masts to have equally arcade damage model than sides would be better.  Stern crew damage should follow the same arcadeness btw.

Accuracy and mast hp have similar effect btw.  Also not sure how big hit box ball and masts have, are those realistic? If you make hitboxes smaller you basically decrease accuracy and may fix everything by just doing that.

You could also consider this..  Further from mast hitbox center balls hit, less damage those do.

[TommyShelby]

Feel free to check out the spreadsheet linked in this topic; 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, admin said:

You can counter demasting making it impossible, but you dont want it, because of that brain pattern. Learn to overcome it Captain and you will do better. Equip upgrades to masts, speed does not matter since couple of last patches. 4 mast upgrades slow you down but make demasting impossible, you will enjoy those battles immensely - laughing when enemies spend half an hour trying to get your masts down while you sink them all. 

Fantasy. With a ship that slow (all 4 mast mods), you lose most maneuverability. A nimble surprise wont need to crack your mast. It can just stern camp and kill crew. Boom...mast upgrade become worthless. I really think masts need to be strengthened a bit where 1, maybe 2 mast mods are sufficient - instead of needing 4.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Guest

[Tac]

1 hour ago, admin said:

When we are growing up we accumulate brain patterns. Patterns that we like and recognize and if something does not fit the pattern we think that something is wrong.

But in this case your brain pattern is wrong. Somewhere in the past you read something or played something where ships only shot at hull and that was it. Maybe it was total war or age of sail 2 where they had minimal demasting due to old tech and conservation of fps. That pattern stays and its hard to defeat it. But with time it will change. Like accepting the fact that age of sail ships could sail backwards. Or accepting demasting as one of the key tactics (which could be countered)

Demasting was one of the main tactics
from small action 


to large 50-60 ship battles

 

We have no desire to fight with your brain pattern, but please STOP posting your ideals as facts.

• Say it as it is: you hate (dont like) demasting, 
• dont say its unrealistic and it never happened.

ps

You can counter demasting making it impossible, but you dont want it, because of that brain pattern. Learn to overcome it Captain and you will do better. Equip upgrades to masts, speed does not matter since couple of last patches. 4 mast upgrades slow you down but make demasting impossible, you will enjoy those battles immensely - laughing when enemies spend half an hour trying to get your masts down while you sink them all. 

Although I feel I must add that speed does matter because otherwise you will never catch anyone to have a battle with.

Or you sit outside a capital in your big fat mast modded, pen modded , carta equipped ship and wait and hope.

Just sayin.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Tac

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Tac said:

Although I feel I must add that speed does matter because otherwise you will never catch anyone to have a battle with.

 

It is different now - you can debuff the speed through structure, its easier and more effective than mast shooting. Lose half structure and you lose up to 70% speed

[Odol]

As someone else said in another thread, gun accuracy is the issue, not the damage they do or the thickness of masts.  Right now we have guns that can be fired like they are being shot out of a gun on the Leopard 2E tank.

 

Most masts fell back in the day due to stays and lines being shot out, not to direct mast hits.   Hence why chain and bar shot was so dangerous.   The French would intentionally give up the wind t get elevation to fire into the masts and rigging of the enemy ship.   

Right now you dont need to give up the wind to shoot up into the rigging of another ship.  You you dont have to use battle sails because ships are to stable at full sails and the damage done to the masts under full sail is the same as the damage done under battle sails. 

 

My suggestion is reduced damage to masts or increased resistance to masts while at battle sails.

[HachiRoku]

People that know me know I love demasting but mid and tops need a hp buff in my honest oppinion. Im sick of people doing the downwind kiting top section demasting.....