Change shipmodels of 1st rates

[Corona Lisa]

Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat game immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history - when sailing ships ruled the seas.

In order to keep the realistic part I think first rates with thickness above 90 should change their model to something like this (with sails ofc):

 

It will help new players understand that its pointless shooting at the hull because every shot will bounce unless they are melee range, even if you use the biggest cannons in the game.

 

The new upcoming Tutorial should also include the 2 ways of killing a 1st rate with thickness mods:

1. Rageboard him with boarding mods and tell your teammates to grape

2. Demast the ship and use mortars to sink it

 

Lastest PB show how those tactics work (video by @Christendom):

TLDW: In this PB 12 1st rates were used, 6 of them got killed during the fight. Every single kill happened through either boarding or mortar kills, even tho all of them immediately went into close range brawl with each other. You will rarely see 1st rates shooting at hull, its more efficient to demast them because shooting hull is pointless.

 

Also change the names and pictures of the following mods:

Cartagena Caulking Refit to Cartagena massive steel

Navy Structure Refit to Even more steel

 

[Slim McSauce]

Prussia v US outside cton, 4 US 1st rates v 1 Prussian L'Ocean. Literally impossible to pen with any cannon outside of 50m, even 42s.

Thickness and/or penetration needs to be looked at.

[z4ys]

Yeah some ships are useless because of their max gun caliber. Its better to fireship and dont put guns on them than actually fight with them.

[jodgi]

Huh! Whodathunk?! Upgrades being detrimental to gameplay?!

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Huh! Whodathunk?! Upgrades being detrimental to gameplay?!

Really its only a thickness upgrades. Just making them have some downside and making them not stackable would go a long way.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Just making them have some downside and making them not stackable would go a long way.

True.

I'm a knucklehead who prefers to go all the way, but I'll support "a long way" too.

[Vernon Merrill]

Its the stacking thats making things get wacky...  Instead of the "Elite" refit being the end all/be all, it's really the fact that it cam be supper-stacked to make things get ridiculous...

[RaimundoJoe]

The issues raised here are valid and it would be nice if they get fixed.

Mortar Brig is allso another thing that needs fixing allong with the Wasa.

Thats why, i belive the devs will tweek the sailing profile, coz its great, just not perfect...

[Batman]

Its not just thickness on 1st rates

- pushing ships into the wind for boarding? Ramming other ships (either on purpose or not) should cause severe damage  + maybe crew shock and rigging shock due to heavy impact (sudden loss of speed ect)

- mortar brig is Op af. Firing 4 Mortar Balls every what - 5, 10 seconds? lolwut why can a mortar be loaded so fast while it takes 71 seconds to load a much smaller ball into a 42 pd cannon

[Christendom]

If you watch throughout the video I'm taking multiple broadsides consistently and giving them out, not much in the way of damage on the sides.  I'm gonna assume the swedes were in a similar double thickness mod ship as I was.  It's stupid.  I roll board fit because sinking another 1st is far more difficult.  There is even a point in there that I think I land an entire broadside on a wasa and it basically does nothing.  While the leeway and variable wind was an interesting addition to the game, it wasn't needed.  What is needed is a balance to the wasa and a nerf or removal of thickness mods.  The BR balance is long overdue and much needed.  The wind changing 6x in 30mins is not.

Quite frankly I really dislike the current system of seemingly magical mods that don't really have any real world relevance.  British gunners on a French ship?  I can almost buy the navy refits, but I still dislike them.  I much prefer the old system where you crafted all the mods you wanted on the ship.  @admin has stated multiple times that he wants losing a ship mean something, but then introduces a PVP mark system where you HAVE to sink the ships to get your hands on the most OP ship in the game and mods that help you compete.  It's honestly the dumbest hello kittying system I've ever seen.  

I miss the PBs we used to have in the Western Alliance vs Eastern Alliance.  Ships were expendable but the battles were more intense and far more interesting.  It's now turned into a circle jerk of kiting and demasting.  I'd gladly throw away multiple ships a day in fights if it means I didn't have to just sail around barely doing damage and repair masts for an hour and a half.

[Corona Lisa]

Hey its nice, we all have the same opinion

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

thickness mods are o.p it's the aggie meta of the old days maybe your 42's will pen but demasting is way easier (also something that makes no sense) and then just board there is no real fighting anymore it's just full thickness mods and some repair and boom you'll never die unless you get boarded and mortar brigged you won't sink by the broadsides of other first rates this was must like the aggie back in the day where the 24 would only pen at a good angle and everyone just went in full boarding and it was just no fun in a pb now it's the same but for first rates you get wasa's with full pen mods they easily demast the enemy and then the mortar brigs blast them while other first rates board them. this is a bad mechanic and makes the pb's way less fun

 

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

Just now, Jon Snow lets go said:

Hey its nice, we all have the same opinion

indeed on this issue most people are in agreement

[Christendom]

Just now, rediii said:

of  sweden does it too. Its the meta atm and it sucks.

BR rebalance

Hoetilityfleet rebalance (10 1st for a 2400BR port)

Thickness balance

Thats the most important fixes for RvR. Orc there is a lot more work to do before release in my oppinion:

- buycontracts on ships

- internal wars for ports

Is just some of it.

I'm not complaining sweden does it.  I'm just tired of every fight, RVR or just regular PVP being a demast fest.

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

except I post it

uhm ok?

[Christendom]

Just kiss and get it over with

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

take shallow battles for example they are great fun easy to replace and don't suffer from the same thickness b*llsh*t maybe the devs can use them as an example for the rest of the port battles

[z4ys]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

 

Making RvR meaningful does not have to include Victory Marks. Fix the economy, make ports and their econ the RvR goal, and make ships and the mods to support them a product of an interesting and meaningful econ/trade/crafting system that even small nations and crafters can participate in and you'll have a much more rich and rewarding game world.

I rather sail limited rates of ship than no ships

Edited January 8, 2018 by z4ys

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Then buy them custom-built from crafters or stock from the ship yard.

How do you can craft ships with no ports? When rvr gets meaningful by resources then its even worse than the VM for the permit. I can tell you out of first hand not able to craft is even worse than having to pay VM for ships.

Edited January 8, 2018 by z4ys

[z4ys]

Just now, Wraith said:

 "Impossible" for a reason.

True. But how can you make RvR meanigful regarding resources when 8 nations already have everything? Changing that is against the purpose of carezones.

[Slim McSauce]

12 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm in full support of removing stacking of mods and making all mods craftable. But we should also make sure that Victory and PvP Marks for anything that's not superficial or game changing goes away as well, since these interact immensely.  If first rates and the best line ships (I'm looking at you Wasa, even though you're a 4th) are hidden behind Victory Marks smaller nations and clans will continue to hemorrhage players especially if those ships are easier and easier to sink.

Making RvR meaningful does not have to include Victory Marks. Fix the economy, make ports and their econ the RvR goal, and make ships and the mods to support them a product of an interesting and meaningful econ/trade/crafting system that even small nations and crafters can participate in and you'll have a much more rich and rewarding game world.

What if we took the non meta ships, the ones that are rarely used like the Essex, Hermie, and 3rd Rate, and made them very easy to get with maybe construction sets notes that need to be crafted? This gives purpose to non meta ships as mass produced ships of war than can compete with more powerful nations and their decked out meta ships.

[Stepp636]

5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

True. But how can you make RvR meanigful regarding resources when 8 nations already have everything? Changing that is against the purpose of carezones.

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Stepp636 said:

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

In my opinion VM are a good feature to keep RvR going. The changes demanded unbalance OW pvp to much.

[RaimundoJoe]

9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

In my opinion VM are a good feature to keep RvR going. The changes demanded unbalance OW pvp to much.

Then ppl will keep beating an allready beaten nation.

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

Then ppl will keep beating an allready beaten nation.

Everyone will always fight the weak because its easy.