Craft Mats for Combat Marks

[JobaSet]

3 hours ago, victor said:

Here we go Mr. PVP. And now it's time you get paid with your own coins. 

Becoming a professional shipbuilder in this game with a so low population (and a lot of clan crafters) includes a lot of management of harvesting, buying, moving materials and resources as well as a good knowledge of what ships and fits are good for the customers. Not mentioning the knowledge of prices of ships and materials in trade hubs.

Also being a pro-carebear (as dedicated crafters usually are) requires in fact good PLANNING SKILLS, a fair amount of GOLD to invest and - last but not least - a lot of TIME.

So .... basically ... wanna become a ship builder? OK ... then use your time and GIT GUD at it.

You say you do not wanna waste your precious time in crafting because you are too busy in being sunk by prussians?

Well, it's your choice. But you just can't have it all! Either you are a PVPer or a dedicated crafter. Simple.

So, don't ask an easy way to craft the ships that could fuel your PVP since dedicated crafters do not get PVP or combat marks for crafting the stuff they sell. 

It would not matter what they did this guy would find something to complain about

[Slim McSauce]

49 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Isn't that more out of sheer greed? 

Since the game lacks any sort of incentive for exploration in the OW, sailing about and looking for resources is about the only reason why I move around in the open world (that and combat of course).

I guess it depends how much your time is worth to you. You could probably make a few mill doing trade runs for an hour. You could also sell a consti for 2 mill after hauling mats for it. Does that make the constitution worth 2 million?

Also you say you look for resources on the OW, can you explain? That doesn't add up, this doesn't affect OW.

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

It would not matter what they did this guy would find something to complain about

So you think that people should have to choose between crafting and playing PVP? That a dedicated crafter shouldn't be allowed the time to do anything else because that's what they signed up for?

Did you even read the post? Grow a brain, stop parroting.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[jodgi]

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Compared to the magical poof that is PVP marks, crafting isn't viable

Is grinding pvp marks considered easy now?

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

nor in any way as relevant as it was before

I don't recall crafting ever being relevant. Any ship is has ever just been a blank canvas, upgrades and books is what it's all about. I actually wish crafting was relevant; It'd be a good thing if humans could actually make what other humans truly want.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, jodgi said:

Is grinding pvp marks considered easy now?

Well, think of it like this. Would you rather be PVPing and having fun to get ships or idly hauling mats, clicking through screens, glaring back and forth between charts watching numbers fill up to craft a ship? To each his own but I'd rather be out fighting ships than spending all my time in game mindlessly clicking "craft"

From a gameplay perspective, crafting is a huge chore which is probably why it hasn't been very big. Maybe if we cut out some of the tedium then you'd see enthusiasm for crafting. But until then the ship eco is gonna remain poo.

As for hardcore PVPers who think that this is a carebear suggestion, you literally get your ships from pure magic, you don't craft, you don't eco. You're playing legends and its hilarious watching you grasp at straws to try to keep the game as favored to you as possible. But I guess that's just human nature to pick a stick to it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've been on both sides, so I'm not terribly bias. 

[Sang Noir]

38 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

You could also sell a consti for 2 mill after hauling mats for it. Does that make the constitution worth 2 million?

2 Million doesn't sound too unreasonable for a Constitution. What's the point?

38 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Also you say you look for resources on the OW, can you explain? That doesn't add up, this doesn't affect OW.

Well, I affect the OW insofar as I sail these empty waters, harvesting resources or buying up the occasional rare wood types, goods to produce modules, presenting myself to others players as a target and therefore populating the OW. 

32 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That a dedicated crafter shouldn't be allowed the time to do anything else because that's what they signed up for?

Hum, Yeah. But you didn't sign up for anything, this is not the Navy. It's a game and you chose your career path out of your own free will.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jean de la Rochelle

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Jean de la Rochelle said:

2 Million doesn't sound too unreasonable for a Constitution. What's the point?

Eh, a gauging question. More on that later.

Just now, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Well, I affect the OW insofar as I sail these empty waters, harvesting resources or buying up the occasional rare wood types, goods to produce modules, presenting myself to others players as a target and therefore populating the OW. 

This suggestion doesn't affect OW, you'll still be buying up the rare wood types and trade goods. The difference is you have the option not to haul a bunch of junk mats around.

Just now, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Hum, Yeah. But you didn't sign up for anything, this is not the Navy. It's a game and you chose your career path out of your own free will.

Yes it is a game, yes crafting is a "career" but a line should be drawn. This isn't E.V.E, its not a 2nd job. More ships means more PVP, more crafting means more Player driven eco. This only facilitates accessibility to crafting. People who don't craft won't be affected, people who hunt crafters won't be affected, crafter will have a much better time and new players will have a much better time

[Sang Noir]

1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

This isn't E.V.E, its not a 2nd job.

I totally agree with you.

4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

The difference is you have the option not to haul a bunch of junk mats around.

Ok, I get it. But wouldn't it be easier to just cut out the junk mats entirely and make more materials available in the shops?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Jean de la Rochelle said:

I totally agree with you.

Ok, I get it. But wouldn't it be easier to just cut out the junk mats entirely and make more materials available in the shops?

That was briefly included in the original suggestion. Either way works.

[jodgi]

15 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Would you rather be PVPing and having fun to get ships or idly hauling mats, clicking through screens, glaring back and forth between charts watching numbers fill up to craft a ship?

<shifty eyes> Is this a trick question?

18 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

From a gameplay perspective, crafting is a huge chore which is probably why it hasn't been very big.

But i keep hearing about unknown masses of players that absolutely need this tedium in game, so the game is centered around them and the pve grinders. I've never been able to make any sense of it.

 

16 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

this is not the Navy. It's a game and you chose your career path out of your own free will.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at...

I could argue that ships for pvp marks is a way for players  to use that free will to choose the navy career. Without ships "given to them by the admiralty" they're at the mercy of eco and crafting players.

[Sang Noir]

23 minutes ago, jodgi said:

47 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

this is not the Navy. It's a game and you chose your career path out of your own free will.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at...

I could argue that ships for pvp marks is a way for players  to use that free will to choose the navy career. Without ships "given to them by the admiralty" they're at the mercy of eco and crafting players.

I was just jumping on Slim's expression of "...because that's what they signed up for?" which has military implications to me. 

28 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That was briefly included in the original suggestion. Either way works.

Then excuse me for jumping on your thread without properly reading what you were suggesting. I don't like it that PVP players can spawn their ships too btw. After fixing the RvR the Devs seem to have moved on to PVP fixing. I hope that crafting, trading and exploration are somewhere down their to-do list as well.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jean de la Rochelle

[Sang Noir]

24 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I could argue that ships for pvp marks is a way for players  to use that free will to choose the navy career. Without ships "given to them by the admiralty" they're at the mercy of eco and crafting players.

Yep, and that is bad for people who want to make a living by crafting, because nobody has to buy their ships any more. 

I guess what Slim is trying to say is, that if PvP players now have the option of spawning their ships, crafters should get the option of spawning their materials.

Slim, I am totally getting what you are saying now ... 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jean de la Rochelle

[Slim McSauce]

10 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Yep, and that is bad for people who want to make a living by crafting, because nobody has to buy their ships any more. 

I guess what Slim is trying to say is, that if PvP players now have the option of spawning their ships, crafters should get the option of spawning their materials.

Slim, I am totally getting what you are trying to say now ... 

Pretty much. You can be self sustaining PVPer and get the best ships in the best builds, and pretty good mods while say a PVEr or crafters are still being held to the realistic standard of building their own ships, since capping AI isn't a viable option for proper ships

I could argue that PVP marks aren't needed, that PVPers can already capture the ships they fight, ships from PVP marks are just a bonus. But we're already down the path of marks being a currency to buy ships, so why not give it on the other end with combat marks?

You still have to haul, collect and craft your ships, using combat marks to buy mats is just a bonus for crafter/PVErs, a supplement in the same way PVP marks are for PVPers

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[SKurj]

and the pvp'ers are making gold at the same time, mebbe not much for the gankers...  But as it stands a gank pvp mark is worth the same as a non gank.  - (an under crewed tbrig is worth over 600k in pvp marks? wtf )   So they have the cash as well, and they are selling pvp marks for over 200k each..  they CAN afford ships.  So why give them ships magically spawned...  

Another idea... allow crafters to trade crafted items for combat marks...   

[Sang Noir]

38 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

 But we're already down the path of marks being a currency to buy ships, so why not give it on the other end with combat marks?

I am doing the most boring thing in a forum discussion and just agree with you... 

[Slim McSauce]

23 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

I am doing the most boring thing in a forum discussion and just agree with you... 

Thanks, your efforts are noted!

[Farrago]

The problem in ship crafting is not the time and effort it takes to gather the materials. That's trade and econ and even tho this part of the game is woefully undeveloped, going backwards in game complexity is not the key to success.

The problem: It's the multiclick, multidrag shuffles between screens, warehouses, and storage locations. The UI is awful for the crafter and traders purposes. Hopefully the new UI will fix this.

[Urchin]

I certainly don't build ships for the gold considering amount of time that goes into maintaining sufficient levels of resources. 

Main reward for crafting ships is helping others out, either clans for the right type of ships for Port Battles and raiding, individuals with a much sort after 5th rate or new traders with a free ship and some capital.

Some improvements I'd like to see added however to make crafting even more rewarding.

- Ability to name the ship

- Receive action reports on ships you have crafted. 

- Additional specialty crafting abilities unlocked beyond level 50 which can be added to a ship.

 

[Christendom]

Frankly no ships at all should be purchasable with marks, PVP or Combat.  Having everything player crafted is better for the economy and the game overall.  

[jodgi]

28 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Having everything player crafted is better

How literally should I understand "everything"?

[Christendom]

6 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How literally should I understand "everything"?

EVERYTHING.  

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Christendom said:

EVERYTHING.  

 

[Christendom]

I was thinking of that clip when making the post.  Excellent movie

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

EVERYTHING.  

Arright. How do you feel about pve grindable mods and books in that regard (the game and the player driven economy)?

[jodgi]

20 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

What about "everything" is confusing?

Hehe, the random pve loot "sandbox" has damaged me. I half expect "everything" to mean "many things but not glorious random pve loot drop upgrades and books."