How, and why, did L'Ocean end up the worst of 1st Rates?

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

In its current state it is, putting it mildly, unappealing.

Victory is tankier and more agile.

Santi hits harder (by a wide margin) and turns better.

It used to be a very nice ship, why was it nerfed? It's not historically accurate either - L'O and its sister ships were considered among the best designed first rates.

[maturin]

Who the heck made Santi turn well? That should be Ocean's deal.

[PG Monkey]

I still like mine

 

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

My LO/WO Santi with Rum Rations turns better than a WO/WO L'Ocean with Rum, Optimized Rudder and Combat Sailing Reports (or whatever that mod is called).

And not just by a little bit.

That is rather... indigestible.

[Kloothommel]

Ocean is still better. Santi gets penned by everything, ocean bounces a lot. Tip: make it out of teak-white oak.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

Not sure if serious. Teak/WO is indeed a lovely build for a resilient speed demon frigate... But for a first rate, would wo/wo be the appropriate compromise between speed and tankiness?

[Teutonic]

7 minutes ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

Not sure if serious. Teak/WO is indeed a lovely build for a resilient speed demon frigate... But for a first rate, would wo/wo be the appropriate compromise between speed and tankiness?

teak/WO is superior due to manueverability and a balance of tank

Tank is very important, we don't disagree there - but a number of us have looked at the numbers and put the ships into practice. teak/WO is the leader in Port Battle fights.

You get more thickness than wo/wo, faster than wo/wo, and when it comes to hitpoints - there are enough hp mods in the game to cover up the downside since there is a bonus cap at 30% anyway.

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Teutonic

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

Maybe I will try it, but if it ends up being a failship, I will haunt your damn dreams. 

This doesn't change the fact that Lotion needs a buff tho...

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

So, small update: I built it, finally, on the recommendation from here with Teak/WO. With Cartagena Caulk upgrade, I got thickness of 93.6 and the most all-around HP of all of my first rates, speed of 9.90 (before cannons) and turn rate, holy christ, of 1.97. (compare: Santi 2.23, Vic 2.51)

Visually, L'O is beautiful. There is no arguing about that.

In a fight however it was less than impressive. The usual tactic of broadside on opposite headings, turn and another broadside is severely hampered by the fact that the turn takes you far from the opponent, precluding efficient usage of carronades. Also, due to lousy maneuverability (and I do know how to manually sail), speed kind of becomes a liability at some point - you can certainly out-RUN your opponent, but cannot out-TURN them, which exposes the ship to stern raking. A lot.

I think its turn rate should be on a par with Santi, at least. I hope this gets changed eventually as I would love to sail the L'Ocean, but just can't see myself enjoying it in its current state when better alternatives are available.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

Alright, so... an update to an update, not sure if anyone GAF, but I like hearing myself talk.

I have to completely reverse my previous opinion on the L'O I built, and "this crow is delicious!" In fact, for the moment, I think I accidentally built a perfect first rate.

My build, strictly for PvE, ended up being: Teak/WO, Cartagena Tar, Kirimati Masts, Navy Structure Refit, Optimized Rudder and Rum Rations. End result: same 97.6 thickness as my LO/WO ships (but with better hull shape), 2.25 turn rate, 9.45 speed with cannons and repairs on board. More HP than either Vic or Santi, better turn than Santi, bigger crew than Vic. The remaining three knowledge slots will go to Combat Sailing Reports, Hammocks and Powder Monkeys. If I ever manage to craft an Elite British Rig Refit, I'll replace Kirimati Masts with it and gain a speed boost at the expense of 2% turn rate (at that point I think I should be able to handle it just fine). And if I also manage to craft Art of Ship Handling, I might replace Combat Sailing Reports with it.

By the way, does anyone know if you can run an Elite British Rig refit and a Navy Structure Refit at the same time?

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

You've (re)discovered the current meta..  WIth the rudder/turn mods you have the key here. 

Nah, no discovery whatsoever (since I just did what yall told me in this thread, heh)... I did phrase it badly though...

I guess as one of the PvE hermits who isn't steeped in the meta and optimization of the PvP server I was just surprised that this upgrade combo pushed the Lotion from "decidedly mediocre" to "hey, this boat is pretty damn cool".

[jodgi]

4 hours ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

My build, strictly for PvE, ended up being: ... Kirimati Masts...

Have you been demasted by bots?

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

24 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Have you been demasted by bots?

No, I put them on for the 10% turn bonus. The speed penalty sucks, but I'll put up with it until I can craft an Elite British Refit. Which may be never, because the goddam skillbooks just won't drop.

[jodgi]

11 hours ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

10% turn bonus.

ah, yes. forgot.

[IndianaGeoff]

17 hours ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

No, I put them on for the 10% turn bonus. The speed penalty sucks, but I'll put up with it until I can craft an Elite British Refit. Which may be never, because the goddam skillbooks just won't drop.

Weeks and weeks of playing and I did not see an elite book.  3 of them since the wipe total.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

On PvE in C-ton, we have a guy offering 2 mil for a copy of the book that goes into the Elite British Refit, for over a week now. I asked in Global the other day when was the last time someone saw it drop... crickets...

I guess in the age of sail you can't go into a bookstore and buy a book, LOL. I wish they just put books in the admiralty. Charge a kittenton of marks for them, I wouldn't mind.

As for the masts, I'm debating whether to drop them for Katherine once I have a slot unlocked to put the Combat Sailing Reports in or just sacrifice that half a knot of speed for agility.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Ahoy H.R. Matey

[maturin]

Why would you even care about stat on PvE?

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

3 hours ago, maturin said:

Why would you even care about stat on PvE?

Cause stats are shiny, and we likes shiny.

 

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Isn't that very cheap on PvE?  I assumed most PvE players are sailing around with 100s of millions at this point...

I don't think the matter is with the amount offered but with the fact that it isn't dropping in sufficient quantities to even consider selling. I know he could offer two billion for it, and if I got it as a drop, I sure as hell still wouldn't sell. And if I had it drop twice, the other copy would go to the clan members. Considering the minuscule chances of it dropping, I don't know if one would ever come on the market no matter what the offer is. The only way I'd see anyone putting it up for sale is if 1) they are a clueless newbie or 2) somehow have a whole bunch of those books on hand, in which case they are either a dev, or a hacker, or should be playing lottery...

What's worse is that on a good day there's only 100 or so of us on the PvE server, spread across all nations, and not everyone is fighting, and a lot of those who are fighting don't bother with the new daft looting system...

Gawd... I do so wish they put the books in the admiralty. Charge 1000 marks for them, it would still be better than this because at least people would be making tangible progress instead of being RNG slaves.

[jnovotny6]

13 hours ago, maturin said:

Why would you even care about stat on PvE?

My thought exactly, I play on PVE and dont really care  about mods because against AI they largely make no difference. They may help with boarding, some. AI needs to get better, at least shoot at masts and sails.