Searching hours for PVP

[IndianaGeoff]

 A top player who's time to play and skill far exceed mine gets half a Victory in 8 hours of extermely active and successful play.  That means weeks for me to get the marks for a first rate.

Not interested in this game as it is now.

[Sunleader]

Keyword is Population.

The Map is set for an Population of 4000-5000 Players Online.

Not for 400-500 we got.....

[Seraphic Radiance]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

There's only a very select few places where you can find PVP consistently.

1% of the world you mean? oh yeah what a great content opportunity for the rest of 99% of players. It's like I have a bunch of friends on different nations and every night we have planned battles, same place, collect pvp marks, show them to public - 'look you guys we are getting so much action'. You guys don't know **** learn to play this game is awesome. We live in a 1x1 small box of awesomeness and who cares about outside world? Chieftains wake up!

Edited December 27, 2017 by Seraphic Radiance

[Jean Ribault]

13 hours ago, Hethwill said:

...Comparatives about real life choices is moot as each one is free to make own choices about what to do with leisure time.

...

 

I never thought I'd see such a silly statement come from someone as rational.  You apparently haven't got a clue what it is to have 3 small children on hand.  You DO NOT have choices, except whether to start the game for an unknown period.  If they cry, scream, pester, or complain, your battle is likely over.  You are AFK off and on almost constantly.  You cannot be relied upon for any large sail or battle.  It is definitely not moot.  I never know if I can be on for 1 minute, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, or just fall asleep at the keyboard after finally being able to open the game.  Try to put that in perspective when you tell people how easy it is to sail to a busy location, search around a while, find and perform a battle up to 90 minutes and sail back.  It don't work.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I don't turn the game on when such occasion arise.

Hope sharing this little parenting tip answers your personal dilemma.

Plus we were talking about hobby leisure time, not parenting attention time.

Carry on.

[Jean Ribault]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

I don't turn the game on when such occasion arise.

Hope sharing this little parenting tip answers your personal dilemma.

Plus we were talking about hobby leisure time, not parenting attention time.

Carry on.

Again a clueless response.

[Urchin]

3 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

I never thought I'd see such a silly statement come from someone as rational.  You apparently haven't got a clue what it is to have 3 small children on hand.  You DO NOT have choices, except whether to start the game for an unknown period.  If they cry, scream, pester, or complain, your battle is likely over.  You are AFK off and on almost constantly.  You cannot be relied upon for any large sail or battle.  It is definitely not moot.  I never know if I can be on for 1 minute, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, or just fall asleep at the keyboard after finally being able to open the game.  Try to put that in perspective when you tell people how easy it is to sail to a busy location, search around a while, find and perform a battle up to 90 minutes and sail back.  It don't work.

Yes I've lost three Endymions and a Trinc in a row over the last two weeks simply because I've had to quit during battle.  Leisure time doesn't exist when you have small kids, you don't have the choice to turn parenting on or off and if not the kids it's the wife. NA time can be and often is interrupted even when you think it might be safe to venture out.  Add a toddler with disabilities and even an hour without interruption is gold. 

[Sunleader]

7 hours ago, Hethwill said:

I don't turn the game on when such occasion arise.

Hope sharing this little parenting tip answers your personal dilemma.

Plus we were talking about hobby leisure time, not parenting attention time.

Carry on.

 

Mate

No Offense.

But then you would never turn on the Game.

Because if you got Children you never can be sure nothing happens.

Children aint some Side Job. Where once your Shift is over dont need to worry about it anymore.

 

So that "little parenting tip" feels rather insulting to any Parent and might (sorry to put it blunt) throw a very Bad Light on you in case you are a Parent yourself.

Just saying.

 

 

Back to Topic.

The Problem we have in the Game. Is that we have a Giant Map. And very few Players to Fill it.

Thanks to the Griefer and RPK Mob which Cried to the Devs until they removed the Safezones over a year ago. Almost 60% of the Playerbase has left the Game after it became impossible to leave Port without being Ganked all the time.

The Devs by now have reeled back a little. And reintroduced Safezones a few Months ago albeit much smaller.

But while the Population had actually started to Recover. The RPK and Griefer Mob which had nothing left to Pester. Was crying again. And since what little was left of the Palyerbase barely moved out of the Safezones anymore. The Devs decided to Shrink Safezones into such small Bubbles that very often even the Missions Spawn outside the Safezone.

Resulting in the RPKs now Camping the Safezone and Farming New Players that do not know the exact Boundaries and thus Drive out of the Safezone for their Missions.

 

The Server has become a Cesspool of Gankers and Griefers. Were PBs are often Empty or only Filled by Third or Half of the Required Players.

And where Finding PvP now Takes Hours. Because with all the Ganking Squads nobody actually Roams the Sea anymore.

 

 

Lets Face it.

We need to move away from PvP being available everywhere.

We either need to Introduce a proper Karma System and Penalties for Randomly Killing People and for Ganking People which dont even got half your Fighting Power.

Or we need to completely Remove the Idea of PvP being the Standard. And allow Players to Sail the World without being Forced to PvP. For example by Enabling PvP Flags only when having a certain Amount of Trade Goods in your Ship.

 

Unless we do that. The Population will Continue Dropping like Flies. And the PvP will become less and less until it entirely Dissappears together with the remaining Population.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Again. Leisure time.

You have no idea about anyone's leisure time unless they are in NA, in the case of our common game.

Please, just please, stop making assumptions about anyone's leisure time activities to justify your vision

It is way easier to keep focused on what the game is, globally, rather than what it should be to fit own personal needs or lifestyle choices.

It is very interesting that many players of a multiplayer wargame engage in combat. Fascinating even.

But this is interesting...

"Introduce a proper Karma System and Penalties for Randomly Killing People and for Ganking People which dont even got half your Fighting Power."

- define randomly  -  rulebook states that any shipping not from your game nation is enemy.

- ganking - a result of one ship sailing alone as a enemy squadron sails by.

- please explain what penalties should be. We talking a Career system here ? Or simply "please gods, punish that knave, make a sea monster appear out of nowhere" ?

 

Snappy salute.

[Lonar]

When i played active before all the sail-profil patching and merge (decided to stop till its finished and does not change every 2 days) tortuga was a good spot were you almost always found someone la mona had also potential. And if you really find nothing try to raise hostility that can be done fast and will attract defender.

[Palatinose]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Resulting in the RPKs now Camping the Safezone and Farming New Players that do not know the exact Boundaries and thus Drive out of the Safezone for their Missions.

The Server has become a Cesspool of Gankers and Griefers. Were PBs are often Empty or only Filled by Third or Half of the Required Players.

And where Finding PvP now Takes Hours. Because with all the Ganking Squads nobody actually Roams the Sea anymore.

Lets Face it.

We need to move away from PvP being available everywhere.

We either need to Introduce a proper Karma System and Penalties for Randomly Killing People and for Ganking People which dont even got half your Fighting Power.

Or we need to completely Remove the Idea of PvP being the Standard. And allow Players to Sail the World without being Forced to PvP. For example by Enabling PvP Flags only when having a certain Amount of Trade Goods in your Ship.

Unless we do that. The Population will Continue Dropping like Flies. And the PvP will become less and less until it entirely Dissappears together with the remaining Population.

We - the "Federation of Gankers and Griefers" - camp any spot, where there are the most players. This is mainly independent from new players. The mechanics are there and it is the task of each nation to inform every national player to know these mechanics. If one knows the mechs, there's no room for the FOGG to do what you accuse them to do. With the safe zone mechanics alive, your argument of pvp available everywhere is just invalid. If one does it right, you will have the the enemy sail behind you and sadly turning around when you enter the immediatly closing mission. 

Define new player. Becaus thats not what this is about. You can manage to rank up in quite a short time, therefore - it's a guess - 80-90% of the active player base are at max rank. Though this doesn't mean they know much about the game or are good at it, they are not new. 

We will always have a gap between those who play a lot and spent most of their time in pvp and thos that only wnat to shoot AI wanting to sail the big boats because the sound of a 42pd roars like nothing else. Yes you are right there are people sinking Navy Brigs, Snows and so on for the sake of pvp marks. But thats not the majority.

 

Nontheless pvp is found mainly near capitals. Sometimes the capitals' captains sail out to defend their capital, or hunters of different nations attack each other, nationals joining one side for the sake of pvp. 

[Sunleader]

5 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Again. Leisure time.

You have no idea about anyone's leisure time unless they are in NA, in the case of our common game.

Please, just please, stop making assumptions about anyone's leisure time activities to justify your vision

It is way easier to keep focused on what the game is, globally, rather than what it should be to fit own personal needs or lifestyle choices.

It is very interesting that many players of a multiplayer wargame engage in combat. Fascinating even.

But this is interesting...

"Introduce a proper Karma System and Penalties for Randomly Killing People and for Ganking People which dont even got half your Fighting Power."

- define randomly  -  rulebook states that any shipping not from your game nation is enemy.

- ganking - a result of one ship sailing alone as a enemy squadron sails by.

- please explain what penalties should be. We talking a Career system here ? Or simply "please gods, punish that knave, make a sea monster appear out of nowhere" ?

 

Snappy salute.

1.

Given that your the one demanding that others adjust their leisure time for the Game its somehow hilarious how you immediately deny any quedtion of yours.

And thats the thing Mate.

In the Global Picture we lost 60% of the Playerbase. So apparently the Game doesnt work for the vast Majority.

And since People wont adjust themselves to the Game. We either have to adjust the Game or the Game will Die.

As simple as that

 

 

2.

Yes. And thats exactly the Problem.

If the Game places no Restrictions on RPKing. You will deplete the Playerbase very fast.

Which is whats happening here.

So these need to be Changed or the Game will Die.

We know its not against the Rules right now. Thats why we complain.

And thats also why finding PvP has become nearly impossible.

 

3.

NPC Attacks, Higher Prices for Repair and Crew, Lower Reward Gain, Neutral and Freeports denying Dock and Repairs. Rabdom Chance of Enemys getting Reinforcements.

There is alot of Options.

After all. If the Admirality knows that Captain us an Honorable Man killing Enemies that are Powerful Warships. In the Waters around an Contestef Port. They might give him Extra Rewards for his Service.

While that Guy they know is usually only killing smallfry, civillians and Coast Vessels in an area they dont even plan to Attack might get a Paycut on his Rewards.

 

Needless to say. That if Large Patrol Fleets Spot someone who made a Name Harassing your Nation. They might decide to Hunt him down.

A Free Trading Port might not be willing to allow someone everyone hates into the Port *gg*

And Crew might be pretty Unwilling to Hire onto a Ship whose Commander is known to be ruthless

 

 

Enough Options really.

 

 

[IndianaGeoff]

2 hours ago, Palatinose said:

 

 

Nontheless pvp is found mainly near capitals. Sometimes the capitals' captains sail out to defend their capital, or hunters of different nations attack each other, nationals joining one side for the sake of pvp. 

Defense of the capital is a joke.  The 2 min timer makes it impossible to get into the gank.  If you do get in you are so far you won't engage a ship with any speed.  The gank itself can last over an hour with a healthy post fight lag.  This let's the ganker choose the most favorable wind.  You come out at super speed, even up wind, and invisible letting the ganker get distance or join fellows.

Let's see what tools are there for the defense fleet.   Nothing.

Of course a decent gank fleet has an alt in the area calling out targets and defense groups.  When a decent defense fleet comes out, the gankers head off shore, log and play an alt until the defense fleet is bored and leaves.

As someone who has spent hours on defense duty, with no success to speak of, I was done months ago. I will join a defense force anytime, but I have zero expectation of doing anything useful other than sailing around my capital.  Probably being called a carebear the next day on the forums.

Edited December 28, 2017 by IndianaGeoff

[Palatinose]

9 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Defense of the capital is a joke.  The 2 min timer makes it impossible to get into the gank.  If you do get in you are so far you won't engage a ship with any speed.  The gank itself can last over an hour with a healthy post fight lag.  This let's the ganker choose the most favorable wind.  You come out at super speed, even up wind, and invisible letting the ganker get distance or join fellows.

Let's see what tools are there for the defense fleet.   Nothing.

Of course a decent gank fleet has an alt in the area calling out targets and defense groups.  When a decent defense fleet comes out, the gankers head off shore, log and play an alt until the defense fleet is bored and leaves.

As someone who has spent hours on defense duty, with no success to speak of, I was done months ago. I will join a defense force anytime, but I have zero expectation of doing anything useful other than sailing around my capital.  Probably being called a carebear the next day on the forums.

Truely, the harm is done as soon as the enemy gets into a first battle. Though sometimes, imagine it or not, the enemy really wants to fight you. I do coastguarding myself sometimes. The key is: give the enemy the slightest spark of hope they can win and they will fight. If your only intention is to counter-gank, to get your vengeance for the commited gank, you will fail in 90% of the cases. 

Therefore one has to understand, that the so called gankers, mostly are dedicated pvpers, who search for proper fights.* It's not that I do not understand the "they come to our capital - let's show them superiority" -attitude. It just doesn't work. Never has.

*yes there are exceptions!!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

52 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

The 2 min timer

It is 3 minutes.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

So apparently the Game doesnt work for the vast Majority.

Vast majority of.... ?

It is like the joke of the pizza in 8 slices or 12 slices. Someone will godamn swear it is better to be 8 slices because they can't eat 4 slices more.

[IndianaGeoff]

Every mechanic (except for very limited reinforcement zones), is to help the ganker.  Yes, it can help escape as the gankee, but it is there to help the gank squad.

If you let people defend their coasts, there would be more defending.

Instead, it always follows the same pattern.  A capital is camped, defenders get tired of unsuccessful defenses night after night.  They stop aggressive defense, gankers start hitting smaller and smaller ships, new players quit, people stop logging in, and that nations pop drops.  Gankers might go elsewhere, but they get bored too and leave.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

25 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

except for very limited reinforcement zones

[Sunleader]

18 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

It is 3 minutes.

 

Vast majority of.... ?

It is like the joke of the pizza in 8 slices or 12 slices. Someone will godamn swear it is better to be 8 slices because they can't eat 4 slices more.

 

Having 4 Slices would not be so Bad.

You still get 33% of that Pizza. Not the most satisfying Meal. But you still get by with it...

 

But currently this Game is nowhere near having 4 Slices .

We maybe got 10% of the Population we need for the Game to have a Future. And this Population is dropping even further.

We got one Slice Left Mate. And that Slice is becoming smaller and smaller.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Bigger and bigger. 

Still have to have trade wars back though  

[Tac]

Why is it if a ship from Nation A chases a ship from Nation B into the the reinforcement zone of capital of nation C you cannot attack the ship from Nation B? it isn't even like it belongs to that nation and it vexes me,alot.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Defense of the capital is a joke.  The 2 min timer makes it impossible to get into the gank.  If you do get in you are so far you won't engage a ship with any speed.  The gank itself can last over an hour with a healthy post fight lag.  This let's the ganker choose the most favorable wind.  You come out at super speed, even up wind, and invisible letting the ganker get distance or join fellows.

Let's see what tools are there for the defense fleet.   Nothing.

Of course a decent gank fleet has an alt in the area calling out targets and defense groups.  When a decent defense fleet comes out, the gankers head off shore, log and play an alt until the defense fleet is bored and leaves.

As someone who has spent hours on defense duty, with no success to speak of, I was done months ago. I will join a defense force anytime, but I have zero expectation of doing anything useful other than sailing around my capital.  Probably being called a carebear the next day on the forums.

That's the crux of the problem.

Ganking came and went with the patches, but when defending your own homewaters was made into a painful exercise in futility, people simply stopped bothering -> ganking became rampant -> the devs (in their infinite wisdom) slapped on the reinforcement zones, stifling attacks, stifling any desire (or  need) to defend, and compressing 90% of the in-game activities to a few kilometers squared while the rest is a dead wasteland.

And worst of all, I reckon they're gonna call it a done deal and not bother trying any mechanics changes now that it is how it is.

[Vintorius]

There's plenty of PVP to be had. You are just not in the right spot apparently. If you have an OP in La Tortue there is endless amounts of PVP to be had. And the American coast has had some pretty steady PVP as well.

I'd suggest just finding the right areas.

[Palatinose]

@Tac what do you mean? U're saying inside a nations capital zone (not reinforcement but capital area) u cannot attack a foe who is not in this nation?

15 minutes ago, Aegir said:

That's the crux of the problem.

Ganking came and went with the patches, but when defending your own homewaters was made into a painful exercise in futility, people simply stopped bothering -> ganking became rampant -> the devs (in their infinite wisdom) slapped on the reinforcement zones, stifling attacks, stifling any desire (or  need) to defend, and compressing 90% of the in-game activities to a few kilometers squared while the rest is a dead wasteland.

And worst of all, I reckon they're gonna call it a done deal and not bother trying any mechanics changes now that it is how it is.

Well whats your opinion on how to fix it? I often cant argue in a greater context. Would be nice to get some input here.

[Tac]

51 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

@Tac what do you mean? U're saying inside a nations capital zone (not reinforcement but capital area) u cannot attack a foe who is not in this nation?

 

That's exactly what i'm saying, Why? just doesn't make any sense.

[fox2run]

1 hour ago, Vintorius said:

There's plenty of PVP to be had. You are just not in the right spot apparently. If you have an OP in La Tortue there is endless amounts of PVP to be had. And the American coast has had some pretty steady PVP as well.

I'd suggest just finding the right areas.

A game design that creates explanations where blame is placed on the player is a very poor game design. Obviously.