OW and repairs

[Landsman]

Check out the first battle in this stream on moscalbs twitch. He outplays the dude in Agamemnon and clearly plays better but due to the stupid repair system with endless repairs the battle goes on forever and in the end he basically outrepairs moscalbs skill and the other guy gets away with basically constantly repairing. The other guy couldn't even handle the boarding game... then after the battle he could have picked another fight with palatinose but due to the other tosser wasting all his reps, he couldn't pick another fight and had to sail all the way back to port to get new reps.... anyone else thinking the OW game wasn't even half as much of a timewaste back when we had only 1 repair for everything per battle?

 

EDIT: Not sure why it double postet... please delete one. Thanks.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Landsman

[Milkman van Swallows]

Something something, a taste of their own medicine.

But I agree, the old repair system was much more competitive. The new system also destroyed boarding as a tactic for fighting. Right now there is only very few scenario's where boarding is the way to go. You need to finish someone as crippling your enemy wont matter because of infinite amounts of rum. With all that being said, the only reason I would want the old system back is to speed up battles and stop the infinite chain game that usually ends in everyone escaping. A decent tag used to be a guaranteed fight whilst with the current system it can be 1,5 hours of chaining without ever being able to get close enough for a real engagement.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Lord Bomgordel

[admin]

agree on rum 

 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

A nice idea that's been tossed around my clan is diminishing returns on your repair. i.e. when you pop your first repair it will only get you to 90% then on your next repair you get 90% of 90% and so on.

if you had 1000 health it you look like this:

Start:1000, 1st: 900, 2nd: 810, 3rd: 729. 

You do run into what will be everyone spamming chain or shooting masts like it currently is but with more permanent consequences. So that could be annoying. 

 

[Havelock]

I dont think Rum is OP if you use it in the flow of battle. 25% Crew is not that much if you already sternraked your opponent to like 40%. However i think that using Rum while boarding favors the big ship too much. (But thinking about it, Rum was introduced to favor big ships, right?)

Regarding instance repairs: Infinite repairs are the only thing keeping demasting and chaining from taking over the meta completely. Every fight vs decent players no matter the numbers starts with shooting off top and mid mast sections recently. Also having a very strong repair means you have to sacrifice knowledge slots for other upgrades like boarding, reload or speed. Another thing: Before introduction, i thougt that infinite repairs would favor gankers as they can repair more. But (being in that situation multiple times) ive changed my mind and actually think now that they give me a better chance of winning or escaping a gank if i use my repairs wisely.

Regarding OW repairs: Its kinda annoying having to sail back and get new reps after each battle. Sure, i could take enough for 2 battles, but speed matters too much for that. It would be cool if we could choose to load 2,3,4 charges of hull reps which would replenish after battle. Of course that kills the thougt of repair kits being the main moneysink for ship maintenance, but maybe we can figure something out there.

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

agree on rum 

 

Remember the press gang perk?  Kinda wish Rum worked more like that but after a battle you got a percentage of your crew back when you used the rum instead being able to pop it any time.  I like the multi repairs and being able to stock up, but I think in battle they should be limited on times of use.  We have limits on Double Ball and Double charge but can continue to use them over and over in new battles.  Maybe something like that need to return to repairs.  Limited number that can be used while battle is active, but at end of battle or OW you can repair up as much as you can until your pulled into another battle.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

9 minutes ago, Havelock said:

Regarding OW repairs: Its kinda annoying having to sail back and get new reps after each battle. Sure, i could take enough for 2 battles, but speed matters too much for that. It would be cool if we could choose to load 2,3,4 charges of hull reps which would replenish after battle. Of course that kills the thougt of repair kits being the main moneysink for ship maintenance, but maybe we can figure something out there.

Total revamp to Navy Board abstract system.

"Pay" to put the ship in the water. ( navies cut down expenses in peace time... Peace of Amiens for example ).

Have infinite repairs but keep the cooldowns as we have them, increasingly higher per use and diminishing returns.

 

[Raf Van Boom]

So the problem is not the mast sniping but repairs? This sure looks nothing like 18th century naval combat.

[Powderhorn]

What is discussed, as near as I can tell, is an imbalance between repairs and the damage causing them.  One or both might be out of whack.  Please stop being jerks to one another just because one says half a dozen and the other says six.

[Valentine Karrde]

Boarding has been virtually destroyed by patch 14. Its infinitely harder to board someone now than it used to be. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's a lot harder, especially in 1 v 1. If you have half a clue you can keep from being effectively raked in any ship. And the new profiles make it very hard to turn even a low sail ship. Was in a trinc vs indef and had him at 50 percent sails the other night and could not grapple him. Ended up just decrewing him standing off and killing him with dps. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[RedNeckMilkMan]

9 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

And the new profiles make it very hard to turn even a low sail ship. 

Are you manual sailing? Rudders do less now but manual sailing makes ships turn on a dime. 

[Valentine Karrde]

20 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Are you manual sailing? Rudders do less now but manual sailing makes ships turn on a dime. 

Which is why it makes it hard to grapple them if they are sailing to prevent boarding. I'm confident it would take either a much larger ship or two or more ships to grapple me in pvp now. It's so easy to use the enemies momentum to push through the wind now. If you have your foremast, you can prevent boarding completely. And yes, I am manual sailing. Been playing this game once day 1. 

I was talking turning an enemy ship to slow it down, not turning my own ship.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[RedNeckMilkMan]

5 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Which is why it makes it hard to grapple them if they are sailing to prevent boarding. I'm confident it would take either a much larger ship or two or more ships to grapple me in pvp now. It's so easy to use the enemies momentum to push through the wind now. If you have your foremast, you can prevent boarding completely. And yes, I am manual sailing. Been playing this game once day 1. 

I was talking turning an enemy ship to slow it down, not turning my own ship.

I read your comment wrong. Thought you mean you were having trouble turning your ship not the enemies.

[Valentine Karrde]

27 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

I read your comment wrong. Thought you mean you were having trouble turning your ship not the enemies.

Yeah np... I figured that after I typed my post hence the edit lol

[HachiRoku]

4 hours ago, admin said:

agree on rum 

 

And not with repairs? Getting half a ship back every 15 min with proper upgrades is nonsense. 3 repairs in total would be nice again. Player can choose rig or hull. But for that to work mid and top sections need a buff in hp and small bit of thickness. Tell me. When in naval warfare did ships fight for the downwind position(I know about few battles) I love demasting but it needs tweaking.

Sorry slightly off topic but tweaks NEED to be made if repairs would be limited to. 

[Quineloe]

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if there was enough PVP  going on.

[vazco]

System in NAL is good. No hull repairs in battle, only sail repairs. Repairs could work after the battle, between engagements.

[Capn Rocko]

I think it should be limited to 2 repairs in battle. Ex: 1 hull and 1 sail, or 2 sail, etc.

It adds more strategy this way and keeps battles from lasting 1.5 hours when they were over in the first 5 minutes.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Capn Rocko

[HachiRoku]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:14 PM, Havelock said:

I dont think Rum is OP if you use it in the flow of battle. 25% Crew is not that much if you already sternraked your opponent to like 40%. However i think that using Rum while boarding favors the big ship too much. (But thinking about it, Rum was introduced to favor big ships, right?)

Regarding instance repairs: Infinite repairs are the only thing keeping demasting and chaining from taking over the meta completely. Every fight vs decent players no matter the numbers starts with shooting off top and mid mast sections recently. Also having a very strong repair means you have to sacrifice knowledge slots for other upgrades like boarding, reload or speed. Another thing: Before introduction, i thougt that infinite repairs would favor gankers as they can repair more. But (being in that situation multiple times) ive changed my mind and actually think now that they give me a better chance of winning or escaping a gank if i use my repairs wisely.

Regarding OW repairs: Its kinda annoying having to sail back and get new reps after each battle. Sure, i could take enough for 2 battles, but speed matters too much for that. It would be cool if we could choose to load 2,3,4 charges of hull reps which would replenish after battle. Of course that kills the thougt of repair kits being the main moneysink for ship maintenance, but maybe we can figure something out there.

It does favor ganking. 1 player can make 3 ships combat ineffective with 1 repair and escape. With multiple repairs its a repair average of 5min vs 15 in a 3v1. Keep in mind you're a better player vs those ganking trash but what could you do with 3 havelocks ganking yourself? With 1 repair you can have the range advantage being downwind and by the time the 3ships catch up they would have repaired if done right and you have a chance. With multi repairs you only postpone the inevitable. 

[Havelock]

6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

It does favor ganking. 1 player can make 3 ships combat ineffective with 1 repair and escape. With multiple repairs its a repair average of 5min vs 15 in a 3v1. Keep in mind you're a better player vs those ganking trash but what could you do with 3 havelocks ganking yourself? With 1 repair you can have the range advantage being downwind and by the time the 3ships catch up they would have repaired if done right and you have a chance. With multi repairs you only postpone the inevitable. 

 

With 3 Havelocks ganking me id be dead in either situation! But i got killed less in ganking with new reps (think so at least)

[Landsman]

11 hours ago, Capn Rocko said:

keeps battles from lasting 1.5 hours when they were over in the first 5 minutes

Agreed, that's the new unlimited repair system in a nutshell...

[Landsman]

24 minutes ago, Havelock said:

But i got killed less in ganking with new reps

Then you're probably the exception... the new multiple repairs only multiply the numerical advantage of gankers further. If you fight 3 vs 1 for example, they will take turns with repairing and taking / dealing damage ( if they aren't complete idiots ), thus reducing your chances of winning even more. If you instead choose to run away, you now have 3x endless repairs vs 1x for sails but you all have the cd on repair so even if you are a good shot and demast 2 of them or something, they just will all keep repairing, wear your sails down and catch up, if your ship isn't significantly faster...

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, Havelock said:

 

With 3 Havelocks ganking me id be dead in either situation! But i got killed less in ganking with new reps (think so at least)

I dont want you to take this as an insult. Ive heard youre a really good player now. Maybe you were not as good pre wipe?

[CTC_ClanLeader]

On 19.12.2017 at 12:25 PM, Landsman said:

Check out the first battle in this stream on moscalbs twitch. He outplays the dude in Agamemnon and clearly plays better but due to the stupid repair system with endless repairs the battle goes on forever and in the end he basically outrepairs moscalbs skill and the other guy gets away with basically constantly repairing. The other guy couldn't even handle the boarding game... then after the battle he could have picked another fight with palatinose but due to the other tosser wasting all his reps, he couldn't pick another fight and had to sail all the way back to port to get new reps.... anyone else thinking the OW game wasn't even half as much of a timewaste back when we had only 1 repair for everything per battle?

 

EDIT: Not sure why it double postet... please delete one. Thanks.

I took a look at the video, in my opionin moscalbs could have finished him by shooting at hull, instead of demasting and try to board him (amazing shooting skill btw), against ur opinion i think it was a good move to disengage and repair crew after boarding. At the end he had more sails, more crew... 

[Havelock]

20 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I dont want you to take this as an insult. Ive heard youre a really good player now. Maybe you were not as good pre wipe?

Nono i didnt take it as that But maybe youre right, i spend more time on the OW these days...