WASSA

[King of Crowns]

okay devs I get that the wassa has been nerfed some but help me to understand something about yalls mindset.... you took the chasers and stern guns off the Essex cuz you thought it would be to OP. yet when it comes to the wassa. you made a ship with the same gun load out as a Bellona, but gave it the BR of a 4th rate, then on top of that  you made her fast enough to be speed capped. then on top of that you give her 6 bow guns and 4 but guns... also you gave her the turn rate better than a trinc... which is a 5th rate..... so tell me in what world would you ever think that ship was balanced?

even with the speed nerf there still isn't a ship of her class or below her class that can solo her. so the nerf on the speed was good step in the right direction but there needs to be more steps taken. especially considering she is basically free. you wanna leave her like she is than make her cost 200 pvp marks. 

[Slim McSauce]

Wasa is such a neck of a ship. It should be the slowest and slowest turning of all the 4th rates to balance its MASSIVE payload. The Ingermanland is slower, slower turning, less armor, less thickness, less mast thickness, and less broadside weight than the Wasa, the only thing it had going for it was its 32pders. Wasa does everything better and its not balanced

What I don't get is that we already have what, 5 4th rates? All pretty unique and only 2 3rd rates, 1 that isn't even relevant in the game. Yet they add a 3rd rate but class it as a 4th rate with 4th rate stats. Why does that make sense?

Edited December 14, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Fluffy Fishy]

Wasa should really just lose 4 of her broadside guns and have them reduced to 24lbs then she would be fine. There is really no reason to have her as a 64 or have her loading 32lbs, I can't find any evidence for the 64 guns and the 32lb guns are as far as I can make out because they were outfitted onto one of her sister ships for a period, although her sistership was upscaled slightly so is a fair bit larger than wasa herself.

Realistically the Wasa in game seems to model a slightly optimistic sailing characteristic while maintaining the heavy hitting of a sluggish bigger sister, its not good for historical accuracy or gameplay. 64s pretty much all had poor sailing ratios too, so they shouldn't outperform the 74s

Please nerf her.

[Christendom]

I hate the fact that the wasa is in the game.  Upgrade it to a 3rd rate, adjust the BR and make it not a redeemable note.  OR nerf it's speed and armament.  

[Teutonic]

17 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I hate the fact that the wasa is in the game.  Upgrade it to a 3rd rate, adjust the BR and make it not a redeemable note.  OR nerf it's speed and armament.  

Pretty much this

[Odol]

Quite frankly all of the ships need to be adjusted.

 

Pirate frigate is the same BR as an Essex... yet the Essex is nerfed to no end...

Constitution is a joke compared to the real life version...

Noticing a trend here of nerfing American ships....

Navy Brig/Brig (Fair American) is a joke when sailed next to the Snow.

Niagara is an over rated row boat with those low hull sides.

The Lynx... is about the only one that is correct.

[Malachi]

28 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Wasa should really just lose 4 of her broadside guns and have them reduced to 24lbs then she would be fine. There is really no reason to have her as a 64 or have her loading 32lbs, I can't find any evidence for the 64 guns and the 32lb guns are as far as I can make out because they were outfitted onto one of her sister ships for a period, although her sistership was upscaled slightly so is a fair bit larger than wasa herself.

Realistically the Wasa in game seems to model a slightly optimistic sailing characteristic while maintaining the heavy hitting of a sluggish bigger sister, its not good for historical accuracy or gameplay. 64s pretty much all had poor sailing ratios too, so they shouldn't outperform the 74s

Please nerf her.

You can nerf the Wasa to oblivion for gameplay reasons, Im fine with that. But she sailed 10 3/4 knots close hauled, 13 running and pretty much turned on a dime, there are sailing reports to prove that.

She carried the same armament as her two feet larger sisters of the 62-gun Gustav Adolph - class, at least when sufficient 24- and 32-pounders for the ships were available in the mid -to late 1780s.

But all that doesn't make much sense in gameplay terms, that's for sure. 18/24-pounders might be better, especially considering the swedish pound was somewhat lighter than the British.

 

[SteelSandwich]

2 hours ago, Malachi said:

You can nerf the Wasa to oblivion for gameplay reasons, Im fine with that. But she sailed 10 3/4 knots close hauled, 13 running and pretty much turned on a dime, there are sailing reports to prove that.

She carried the same armament as her two feet larger sisters of the 62-gun Gustav Adolph - class, at least when sufficient 24- and 32-pounders for the ships were available in the mid -to late 1780s.

But all that doesn't make much sense in gameplay terms, that's for sure. 18/24-pounders might be better, especially considering the swedish pound was somewhat lighter than the British.

 

out of curiosity, what armament was carried when the reports where written?

If, and im asking since i dont know, those speeds where recorded with 24/18, would it not be the perfect balance to reduce her manouverabilities/sailing characteristics when someone opting for a heavier loadout (32/24)?

Faster and lighter armament, slower and heavier armament. Sounds exactly right for 4th configuration in my ears atleast..

[Aster]

I'm pretty sure the wasa had 36 pound guns on the main deck

[Valentine Karrde]

5 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

okay devs I get that the wassa has been nerfed some but help me to understand something about yalls mindset.... you took the chasers and stern guns off the Essex cuz you thought it would be to OP. yet when it comes to the wassa. you made a ship with the same gun load out as a Bellona, but gave it the BR of a 4th rate, then on top of that  you made her fast enough to be speed capped. then on top of that you give her 6 bow guns and 4 but guns... also you gave her the turn rate better than a trinc... which is a 5th rate..... so tell me in what world would you ever think that ship was balanced?

even with the speed nerf there still isn't a ship of her class or below her class that can solo her. so the nerf on the speed was good step in the right direction but there needs to be more steps taken. especially considering she is basically free. you wanna leave her like she is than make her cost 200 pvp marks. 

Liquicity soloed one in a surprise tonight. And I soloed one in a trincomalee yesterday.... perhaps you need to practice some mate  Most good pvpers won't touch her, only reason I claimed one was I didn't have a shipyard and lost my bellona to poor game stability.  It's a much better deal to buy the mods with pvp marks. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Valentine Karrde]

54 minutes ago, Aster said:

I'm pretty sure the wasa had 36 pound guns on the main deck

32s

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Liquidity soloed one in a surprise tonight. And I soloed one in a trincomalee yesterday.... perhaps you need to practice some mate  and she costs 200 pvp marks. Just redeemed one last night.

You mean 200 CM right?   Though I have to agree with you guys if you get the right captian that knows it weakness and uses that it's not hard to beat them.  While not a small ship like ya'll I solo one in my board fit Aggy (he turned out board fit too).  Had no issues with him even with the more crew/marines (though I had barricades and he didn't).  And any one that knows me I suck at most 1 vs 1 unless it's in shallow water ships lol

Edited December 15, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[King of Crowns]

4 hours ago, Christendom said:

I hate the fact that the wasa is in the game.  Upgrade it to a 3rd rate, adjust the BR and make it not a redeemable note.  OR nerf it's speed and armament.  

the speed has been nerfed....... its slowed down a lot. but I'm not sure that's enough.

[Valentine Karrde]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You mean 200 CM right?   Though I have to agree with you guys if you get the right captian that knows it weakness and uses that it's not heard to beat them.  While not a small ship like ya'll I solo one in my board fit Aggy (he turned out board fit too).  Had no issues with him even with the more crew/marines (though I had barricades and he didn't).  And any one that knows me I suck at most 1 vs 1 unless it's in shallow water ships lol

Yeah I was thinking combat marks. I'd say make her 500 combat marks and lower her guns to 24s and 18s and she'd be about right 

[King of Crowns]

9 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Liquicity soloed one in a surprise tonight. And I soloed one in a trincomalee yesterday.... perhaps you need to practice some mate  Most good pvpers won't touch her, only reason I claimed one was I didn't have a shipyard and lost my bellona to poor game stability.  It's a much better deal to buy the mods with pvp marks. 

I assure you if the WASSA captains woulda known what they heck they were doing neither of you woulda taken down a wassa in either of those 2 ships. 

[Christendom]

6 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

the speed has been nerfed....... its slowed down a lot. but I'm not sure that's enough.

I was cleaning up yesterday in a fir fir one, seemed about normal on speed.  Doesn't matter because I can demast anything with those 36lbers.

[King of Crowns]

Just now, Christendom said:

I was cleaning up yesterday in a fir fir one, seemed about normal on speed.  Doesn't matter because I can demast anything with those 36lbers.

............... its impossible to get one to 15.5 now. and its 32lbers. not 36s

[Aster]

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronprins_Gustaf_Adolf_(1782)

This is the ship we have in game. It had 36 pound guns irl.

[Valentine Karrde]

1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

I assure you if the WASSA captains woulda known what they heck they were doing neither of you woulda taken down a wassa in either of those 2 ships. 

The guy I killed was one of the better swede captains who is all over the combat leaderboards. I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing. I've killed over 100 wasa since it was released, mainly with trincomalee and Connie. It has weaknessses you just need to find them.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

My biggest gripe about the Wasa, amongst the other disbalances, is that no vessel should be generated from thin air, with no wood nor iron nor canvas to complete her.

[Valentine Karrde]

3 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

My biggest gripe about the Wasa, amongst the other disbalances, is that no vessel should be generated from thin air, with no wood nor iron nor canvas to complete her.

I think they consider it taking command of an already constructed vessel. No one owned warships IRL, captains were appointed command of one. Hence the note 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I understand that.  However, it takes merchants out of the water.

[King of Crowns]

7 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

My biggest gripe about the Wasa, amongst the other disbalances, is that no vessel should be generated from thin air, with no wood nor iron nor canvas to complete her.

JUST MAKE it pvp marks so that they are hard to get. that's a good step 

[Valentine Karrde]

12 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I understand that.  However, it takes merchants out of the water.

Merchants and ship builders have never been able to keep up with demand. I hate trading and crafting but I had to craft just to keep myself in ships. Hardly any ships for sale are worth sailing. 

[Valentine Karrde]

1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

JUST MAKE it pvp marks so that they are hard to get. that's a good step 

No one buys any of the pvp marks ships. Wasa only appeals to second string pvpers and those won't ever earn enough to buy one. Nerfing the guns and charging more combat marks is more than enough.