Boring

[Rigge1988]

So. Here's my current opinion and my personal rant about it.

I just realized how boring this game has become.

Now. Going out for OW pvp, you can sail hours on end finding nothing. And this is something directly connected to low server population imo.

So you go back, thinking about doing a mission or two against AI just to not sit and spin ship. So you grab a mission which ends up in enemy territory, a place you might not wanna go solo since your friends that you sailed together with for OW pvp went to play something else. So you cancel  that mission and grab another in hope it will show up closer to where you might feel safe to do it.

After picking and canceling 130 mission you go out and do whatever.

You sink the ship(s) and go for loot. Now you get NOTHING. Nothing of value for a max lvl hero captain. All you get is gold and combat marks. So when you've collected some 5000 combat marks you don't care about combat marks. And when you have 40m gold you don't care about 350k gold.

You feel empty. Hopeless. And you attack an OW AI fleet just for fun and you get basically equally worthless loot. Well, with a 0.000000000001% chance of getting something useful like copper plating or book of five rings BP.

So you, or atleast I. End up in harbour. Jumping around, doing trades earning money that way. Cause it's fun to see numbers increase. Not that it matters but something is happening. All this while waiting for a port battle to happen. So the french attack us, nice you think. You go there. Empty port battle. Fun times entering PB and tabbing out to watch youtube.

If the loot tables don't get more interesting we better pray for a really good UI that might add freshness to the game. But I bet it's for a short period of time.

 

TL;DR

Game has become way more boring since loot tables got changed (or fubar if you like).

 

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

After picking and canceling 130 mission you go out and do whatever.

 So the french attack us, nice you think. You go there. Empty port battle. Fun times entering PB and tabbing out to watch youtube.

 

 

Its boring if all you do is boring missions (judging by the fact that it takes you 130 cancels to find a safe spot)  expecting loot that does not exist in missions (remember the patch in which missions stopped generating rare loot)

Its a sandbox. You pick your goal (preferably conquer the world) and deliver. For fun there is a simple trick. Switch to Prussia or Poland or Russia and capture cartagena. Or maybe join Britain. Use your millions to fund British rookie fleets to conquer the world.

[vazco]

We lack a mechanic that would allow you to do some meaningful PvP within 40 minutes from logging in, regardless of server population and your group size. #raids

We also lack a mechanism that would allow for people to find each other in OW. #raids #regiontrafficindicator

I wonder, what could help with those problems?

[sveno]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Its a sandbox. You pick your goal (preferably conquer the world) and deliver. For fun there is a simple trick. Switch to Prussia or Poland or Russia and capture cartagena. Or maybe join Britain. Use your millions to fund British rookie fleets to conquer the world.

Thats our problem, we did kinda conquer the world.
We went out there and sunk repeatedly full fleets, going for the strongest targets we could find.
Now nobody wants to fight us; even if we attack important ports.

It has gotten so repetitive that the guys organising stuff kinda lost their drive and are playing other stuff until we are attacked again.

For these situations i would really love to have the daily PvP event back.
Ok, it has shown to be a gankfest in the past, but many of us dont mind that, if fight is more or less guaranteed.
The PvP event would retain the PvP players before they bleed off - surely dont mind the event to be cancelled as soon pop goes back to healthy level.

An other theme surfacing itself here, is that there are not effective enough tools to shuffle down a dominating country or clan.
I am sure you devs will be adressing this in due time, but i think i should mention this here, as we dominated the map since last reset.

I would happely accept Sweden to be turned to a hardcore nation, but honestly do not think it will Change anything RvR-wise.
Ok, i guess we get a lot more PvP at Gustavia, would love that.  

Edited December 8, 2017 by sveno

[jodgi]

8 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Do I need to explain more?

You forgot the most important bit:

EVE: Absolute trash fighting mechanics.

NA: Glorious fighting mechanics.

[Archaos]

10 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Better Loot requests were here about year ago and were rejected/ignored.

I do not see how better loot will improve things or bring people back to the game. If there is better loot in PvE people will just grind it till they have so much of it it becomes worthless and if it is better loot in PvP, people will complain that it gives an advantage to PvP players creating an even bigger gap and a barrier to new people entering PvP (unless it is items like paints or items that do not improve performance). But even with loot like paints, once they are regular drops people will farm them till they have so many and then they are back to square one saying they are bored.

Before the wipe when they had the PvE and PvP challenges I used to regularly place in the PvE challenge top ten and I had so many paints and ship notes I was giving them away. I guess what kept me playing that was attempting to improve the timing, but even then it eventually got boring as they kept the opposition the same so once you worked out the tactics and right setup it was wash rinse and repeat, which became quite boring. In the current game it is easy to farm skill books by hitting NPC fleets inside the safe zone, it just becomes a matter of luck to get the rarer ones. I currently still do this a lot as I am grinding up slots on various ships, but once I have the slots unlocked I am sure it will lose its attraction.

So basically I do not think more loot will fix things, what the game needs is to generate some form of accomplishment from the actions you do. If you are a PvE'er and you do missions or hit OW traders or fleets that should have some effect on the world in general rather than just being a method to farm xp and gold. If you are a PvP'er your PvP battle should affect the world to a greater extent than PvE to reflect the greater risk. Even if you are a trader, doing a trade run should have some effect other than just making you gold. In short make people believe their actions are affecting the world to some degree rather than just a farm to generate wealth and amass goodies.

[Corona Lisa]

Just now, vazco said:

We lack a mechanic that would allow you to do some meaningful PvP within 40 minutes from logging in, regardless of server population and your group size. #raids

We also lack a mechanism that would allow for people to find each other in OW. #raids #regiontrafficindicator

I wonder, what could help with those problems?

PvP zone!

[victor]

31 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You forgot the most important bit:

EVE: Absolute trash fighting mechanics.

NA: Glorious fighting mechanics.

And you forgot that, for a lot of us, this is just ONE important thing, not the MOST important one.

Edited December 8, 2017 by victor

[Rigge1988]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

Its boring if all you do is boring missions (judging by the fact that it takes you 130 cancels to find a safe spot) 

Its a sandbox. You pick your goal (preferably conquer the world) and deliver. For fun there is a simple trick. Switch to Prussia or Poland or Russia and capture cartagena. Or maybe join Britain. Use your millions to fund British rookie fleets to conquer the world.

To answer this, in a less butt hurt way as I possibly can.

If im doing boring missions what is a fun mission?

Why would I switch to one of those, excuse general community shame name, cartoonish nations?

Calling it a sandbox and using it as an excuse for poor content is what I would consider unprofessional.

Will we by any chance see any changes to the loot tables soon? Or will there be any content coming soon?

[Archaos]

7 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Then your mindset is not designed to develop games. Try something else. We need unique thinking here to overcome problems that plague NA. I am not going to repeat myself hundred of times and I do not post ideas that have 0 positive effect on game health. 

I have given you examples of how just providing more loot is not a solution and you just dismiss it without giving any reason how providing more or better loot would improve it. Just saying that you need unique thinking is not an answer, tell us how improved loot would improve the game and stop people getting bored?

Like anything in life if something becomes too easy to get it becomes worthless and if it is too hard to get people give up on trying to get it, there is a balance to be achieved with loot so it has value.

[Archaos]

Just now, George Washington said:

I can provide you 10 pages of how loot can work and it's proven by other MMOs to work beautifully, maintain population and invite casuals. 

Well please provide it.

[admin]

1 hour ago, sveno said:

Thats our problem, we did kinda conquer the world.
We went out there and sunk repeatedly full fleets, going for the strongest targets we could find.
Now nobody wants to fight us; even if we attack important ports.

 

all empires fall - you are witnessing the start of the fall of the swedish empire. We have seen empires fall before and we have no plans to change this realistic mechanic (when great generals leave the world empires fall)

[admin]

2 hours ago, Rigge1988 said:

Or will there be any content coming soon?

I doubt you will get much from the tutorial and user interface upgrade. Which are the main content priorities now.

Maybe you should attack danish (BF) or Pirates (Rubli) instead of boring pve missions that give no loot
btw did you know that open world ships loot actually gives good rewards. I have no idea why experienced captains do missions. 

[admin]

TLDR

there is nothing we can do at this stage @Rigge1988
We have 2 programmers and are LASER  focused on the tutorial and user interface. If you are not interested in the tutorial i cant help you with anything until tutorial and UI is done. 
Until then : Maybe re-roll for a harder nation - or help @Bart Smith capture cartagena as a mega challenge that will leave your trace in history. Or join brits to pvp near port royal non stop.
 

Topic locked.

[maturin]

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

You are missing the point here. Conquest is there , but requires organized clan operations. This means if you log in earlier in the day and many people are still not on there is nothing else to do. Fleets are boring and have no variety or loot with achievements and drops. Econ is Clan based and making coin delivering is even worse than sailing looking for pvp. Going to someones capital just to find yourself ganked is no longer in style. This leaves NA with bored player base. There is nothing else to do.

Let's compare EvE to NA I know you like to compare these games a lot. 

EVE:

Industrial Careers

missions cover the basics of mining, refining and manufacturing of goods. Industrial tycoons can create enormous wealth in the EVE universe, but not without a lot of strong competition. Mining is a popular way to make money, too. But manufacturing tends not to generate any real profits until you have learned some highly advanced skills and invested heavily in blueprints. You'll get a free Venture mining frigate for completing the industry starter missions.
Business Careers

 missions introduce players to EVE's open and comprehensive market system. With good trading skills, EVE players can earn substantial ISK without ever undocking from a station. You can also earn a good income from hauling goods between trade hubs, buying low in one location and then selling high in another. The business missions reward you with a basic industrial ship for free.
Exploration Careers

 missions cover the most obvious way of playing EVE - shooting stuff for loot and salvage. Initially, you have the skills to fly a frigate of your race. You'll be awarded a good Tech I combat frigate for selecting the military starter missions.
Military Careers

 missions cover the discovery of valuable sites in EVE space - wormholes, deadspace pockets, and undiscovered archaeology sites, among others. These missions show you how to use the scanner and probes, and how to identify and exploit the sites you discover. Great way to make lot's of ISK.
Outlaw Careers

missions will introduce you to the finer details of EVE combat. These missions are more difficult than those of in the Military career track, and as a result, these should be taken after the other track is completed. This more advanced track will teach you how to assist others in order to overcome a threat, as well as the effects of the various weapon damage types. Once finished, you will have all the basic knowledge required to dive head first into the ever-raging war between the factions of EVE Online.
Metagame Careers

-Miner/REfiner

-Hauler

-Manufacture / Research / Invenntor

-Market Trader

-Explorer

-Salvager

-Mission Incursion Runner

-Ratter

-Mercenary

-Bounty hunter

-Faction Warfare Fighter

-CAn Flipper

-Ninja Salvager

-Pirate

-Scammer/Thief

-Suicide Ganker

-Drug Dealer

-Currency Trader

 

NA:

-Trader (not worth it, could make money)

-PvP player (takes too long with little reward, could get pvp marks if lucky)

-Conquest (Might get pvp marks, takes time, social interaction, no real rewards)

-Mission Runner (decent money making, mods)

-Fisherman (makes no money at all, sells meat)

-Ganker (might get pvp marks if lucky, time consuming)

Do I need to explain more?

 

 

 

 

 

War Thunder:

- Tank driver

- Pilot

 

What a terrible, unpopular game that must be.

This isn't meant to be EVE.

[DrZoidberg]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Its boring if all you do is boring missions (judging by the fact that it takes you 130 cancels to find a safe spot)  expecting loot that does not exist in missions (remember the patch in which missions stopped generating rare loot)

Its a sandbox. You pick your goal (preferably conquer the world) and deliver. For fun there is a simple trick. Switch to Prussia or Poland or Russia and capture cartagena. Or maybe join Britain. Use your millions to fund British rookie fleets to conquer the world.

Oh my god, again the superior suggestions :). U should do, what players wants, not they should, what u want :). This attitude became this superior game graveyard.

[George Washington]

1 minute ago, jonnysweden said:

You are probably just a loser who can only gank 25 to 1.
I see non stop pvp on streams for Rubli and BF.  You have to search for pvp. You also left the game on the 27th. So shut up and leave like a man 

rofl, everyone watching 2 clans fight and call it pvp and look there is action! ... pathetic. 

[maturin]

20 minutes ago, George Washington said:

You are comparing a potato with a steel ball. 

Yeah, and you're genuflecting to a pumpkin.

[George Washington]

25 minutes ago, maturin said:

War Thunder:

- Tank driver

- Pilot

 

What a terrible, unpopular game that must be.

This isn't meant to be EVE.

You are comparing a potato with a steel ball. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[DrZoidberg]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

I doubt you will get much from the tutorial and user interface upgrade. Which are the main content priorities now.

Maybe you should attack danish (BF) or Pirates (Rubli) instead of boring pve missions that give no loot
btw did you know that open world ships loot actually gives good rewards. I have no idea why experienced captains do missions. 

Because u made PVP dead mate :). Thatswhy....

[George Washington]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

btw did you know that open ships loot actually gives good rewards

They do not drop ship notes. Anything you get before that you can't really call a good loot. 1 dura ships, no insurance, no pvp, no action , no people. Simple formula. 

I got 1 Fireship mod from OS fleet few days ago, are you serious? This is good loot? Boring and useless imho. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[George Washington]

27 minutes ago, admin said:

Its boring if all you do is boring missions (judging by the fact that it takes you 130 cancels to find a safe spot)  expecting loot that does not exist in missions (remember the patch in which missions stopped generating rare loot)

Its a sandbox. You pick your goal (preferably conquer the world) and deliver. For fun there is a simple trick. Switch to Prussia or Poland or Russia and capture cartagena. Or maybe join Britain. Use your millions to fund British rookie fleets to conquer the world.

You are missing the point here. Conquest is there , but requires organized clan operations. This means if you log in earlier in the day and many people are still not on there is nothing else to do. Fleets are boring and have no variety or loot with achievements and drops. Econ is Clan based and making coin delivering is even worse than sailing looking for pvp. Going to someones capital just to find yourself ganked is no longer in style. This leaves NA with bored player base. There is nothing else to do.

Let's compare EvE to NA I know you like to compare these games a lot. 

EVE:

Industrial Careers

missions cover the basics of mining, refining and manufacturing of goods. Industrial tycoons can create enormous wealth in the EVE universe, but not without a lot of strong competition. Mining is a popular way to make money, too. But manufacturing tends not to generate any real profits until you have learned some highly advanced skills and invested heavily in blueprints. You'll get a free Venture mining frigate for completing the industry starter missions.
Business Careers

 missions introduce players to EVE's open and comprehensive market system. With good trading skills, EVE players can earn substantial ISK without ever undocking from a station. You can also earn a good income from hauling goods between trade hubs, buying low in one location and then selling high in another. The business missions reward you with a basic industrial ship for free.
Exploration Careers

 missions cover the most obvious way of playing EVE - shooting stuff for loot and salvage. Initially, you have the skills to fly a frigate of your race. You'll be awarded a good Tech I combat frigate for selecting the military starter missions.
Military Careers

 missions cover the discovery of valuable sites in EVE space - wormholes, deadspace pockets, and undiscovered archaeology sites, among others. These missions show you how to use the scanner and probes, and how to identify and exploit the sites you discover. Great way to make lot's of ISK.
Outlaw Careers

missions will introduce you to the finer details of EVE combat. These missions are more difficult than those of in the Military career track, and as a result, these should be taken after the other track is completed. This more advanced track will teach you how to assist others in order to overcome a threat, as well as the effects of the various weapon damage types. Once finished, you will have all the basic knowledge required to dive head first into the ever-raging war between the factions of EVE Online.
Metagame Careers

-Miner/REfiner

-Hauler

-Manufacture / Research / Invenntor

-Market Trader

-Explorer

-Salvager

-Mission Incursion Runner

-Ratter

-Mercenary

-Bounty hunter

-Faction Warfare Fighter

-CAn Flipper

-Ninja Salvager

-Pirate

-Scammer/Thief

-Suicide Ganker

-Drug Dealer

-Currency Trader

 

NA:

-Trader (not worth it, could make money)

-PvP player (takes too long with little reward, could get pvp marks if lucky)

-Conquest (Might get pvp marks, takes time, social interaction, no real rewards)

-Mission Runner (decent money making, mods)

-Fisherman (makes no money at all, sells meat)

-Ganker (might get pvp marks if lucky, time consuming)

Do I need to explain more?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[George Washington]

4 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

 

If im doing boring missions what is a fun mission?

 

That content is absent in NA. Missions do not drop ship notes, loot or other content that could make them fun. They are flat as they could be.

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[George Washington]

1 minute ago, Archaos said:

I have given you examples of how just providing more loot is not a solution and you just dismiss it without giving any reason how providing more or better loot would improve it. Just saying that you need unique thinking is not an answer, tell us how improved loot would improve the game and stop people getting bored?

Like anything in life if something becomes too easy to get it becomes worthless and if it is too hard to get people give up on trying to get it, there is a balance to be achieved with loot so it has value.

I can provide you 10 pages of how loot can work and it's proven by other MMOs to work beautifully, maintain population and invite casuals. 

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You forgot the most important bit:

EVE: Absolute trash fighting mechanics.

NA: Glorious fighting mechanics.

Oh I am sorry, they have 30 000 players and we have 600. Wow, what an achievement. Guy tells you he is bored and explains why, but you still barking with your glorious mechanics. Game Mechanics alone won't work. Do you think new sailing mechanics add players? think again. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Well please provide it.

With what effect? Developers refuse to implement it and they do not believe in that Content. I will save it for someone who will be serious about real Naval MMO. 

If you want examples there are multiple posts in suggestions that if combined can create a product world never witnessed before.  All whats missing is a group of brains that can realize it. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington