NethrosDefectus Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 A theme I have noticed from a fair few players since the last couple of changes is that they are complaining that they are having to mothball their wasas because its harder to replace them if they get lost. Well.........Is that not EXACTLY as it should be with any ship? There should be that element of risk every time you you engage someone in combat. I personally thinks this highlights a problem with the wasa that I had not previously noticed. People have become reliant on it, the fact that it is so powerful and so cheap to replace meant that it became the only many would go out of port in and it's almost as if they've forgotten how to sail anything else. In my opinion they have made the perfect argument themselves as to why its a good thing the wasa (although still VERY cheap in my opinion) has an increased cost lately. 1
NethrosDefectus Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, PenguPirate said: His issue is he's a casual player, the changes that catered towards more ambitious/aggressive PvP'ers and leave casual PvP'ers or PvE/PvP hybrids in a position where they might not get to enjoy the game as they used to(Possibly PvE'ing in the wasa). For a game they paid money for it can be annoying. His grief is more towards that unless he starts putting in time that he can't afford he won't be able to even enjoy the casual aspects of the game. Oh and, please ask @admin to balance the wasa if you think it's OP. Inb4 "go play on PvE" If @admin had ANY intentions of balancing the wasa then it would have been done a long time ago. I'll admit they tried to make it so that there was more of a risk to sailing the wasa (in terms of the cost of replacing it) but as soon as the people who sail it complained about it being unfair they buckled almost immediately and made it cheap again. Edited December 28, 2017 by NethrosDefectus
victor Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 7 hours ago, jodgi said: Why bother with books and upgrades if you PVE? because mods and books speed up the grind 2
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, NethrosDefectus said: A theme I have noticed from a fair few players since the last couple of changes is that they are complaining that they are having to mothball their wasas because its harder to replace them if they get lost. Well.........Is that not EXACTLY as it should be with any ship? There should be that element of risk every time you you engage someone in combat. I personally thinks this highlights a problem with the wasa that I had not previously noticed. People have become reliant on it, the fact that it is so powerful and so cheap to replace meant that it became the only many would go out of port in and it's almost as if they've forgotten how to sail anything else. In my opinion they have made the perfect argument themselves as to why its a good thing the wasa (although still VERY cheap in my opinion) has an increased cost lately. On a PvE note: dude, it's amazing for 4tg rate fleet missions. On a general note: There is risk involved in taking any ships out. Even the 200CM wasa. That aside, everyone's aware of how broken OP it is. I don't think giving it a high price is a good solution, because you merely lock out the casual players who prolly don't even use it for PvP in the first place. There were rumours of it being nerfed even before the merge. The Devs might be working on it with the rest of ship balancing patch. And they're not ignoring the community, they're testing ideas and compensating for any extreme measures On a personal note: There are threads asking Devs if they would fix BR for ships and wasa. Please, I am begging you, every time you make a post about how OP the wasa is and the non-solution of increasing its price is the right way to go, please make a thread asking Devs to balance it. With you being this passionate about how broken the wasa is I'm sure you're more likely to spot issues with the current wasa than most of us. Edited December 28, 2017 by PenguPirate
Jesters-Ink Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 2 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said: A theme I have noticed from a fair few players since the last couple of changes is that they are complaining that they are having to mothball their wasas because its harder to replace them if they get lost. Well.........Is that not EXACTLY as it should be with any ship? There should be that element of risk every time you you engage someone in combat. I personally thinks this highlights a problem with the wasa that I had not previously noticed. People have become reliant on it, the fact that it is so powerful and so cheap to replace meant that it became the only many would go out of port in and it's almost as if they've forgotten how to sail anything else. In my opinion they have made the perfect argument themselves as to why its a good thing the wasa (although still VERY cheap in my opinion) has an increased cost lately. You have the answer, lets make every ship but one require PvP marks
Palatinose Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 Approval to PenguPirate on the price matter. Not the way to go. This ship should just not be the only option on the OW (except for those that refuse to go with this meta anyways). Let's see how todays fixes turn out on OW and in combat.
Odol Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 16 hours ago, PenguPirate said: Don't all the ship on eve costs isk only? And you just need to train the skills needed to fly them? I mean a crazy ba$tard can just buy a couple hundred Plex with real money, sell that for isk, and buy the ships, while the skills needed takes real time to learn. Or has the system changed that much after I left? Also, I believe he COULD afford to have them replace, but since the patch he can't and now he has to mothball them. No... some ships in Eve are only available in limited quantities due to being special ships... like the first alliance tournament winner prize ship. That ship is worth an estimated 15k USD real life. Because it can not be rebuilt, and all of its kill marks are unique. There are a few ships in Eve that are like that. There was a whole article about a theft in EVE where someone stole one of these rare/unique ships. VM, PVP Marks, and Combat Marks, are a form of payment, no different than the gold coin system or ISK in Eve. You can gain money in NA by just running missions, killing NPCs, killing players, or just trade. You can buy VM, PVP marks, and Combat marks for gold. So if a ship changes value from one tier of payment, combat marks to Victory Marks, then it just increased in value. So start working towards earning VM either through trade or conquest. If not you are breaking rule number 1... dont sail what you cant afford. Not rocket science. 1
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 Thanks for clarification @Odol Question, how are the commanders of the "titans" elected ? Given it is a collaborative effort, who gets to "sail" it ?
Odol Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Hethwill said: Thanks for clarification @Odol Question, how are the commanders of the "titans" elected ? Given it is a collaborative effort, who gets to "sail" it ? To answer your question... The first Titan was flown by the leader of the corp that made it. Leadership has its perks. Many of the other titans are flown by the best skilled individual for that ship. Others are passed around in the corps higher echelon of pilots with the skills as needed. Most Titans are only brought out when they need it for major wars... or to swing the tide of a battle. They are rare.. VERY rare.. far rarer than anything we have in game. I can count the number of Titans I have seen personally on one hand, over my 10+ years in Eve. In the case of the ship I was talking about, it wasnt a Titan... it was just a frigate, which is one of the most common ship classes in Eve... akin to a 6th rate here. Its estimated value was 300bil ISK, not including the kill marks... which only increased its value. Of which it had over 400 kill marks. Seeing as at that time 1bil isk was roughly 20USD.. it came out to 6000USD before the kill mark inflation. Which easily triples its value. No other ship in Eve had 400 kill marks, let alone a frigate.
Peiper Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 Wonderful. Now my clan is talking about dissolving. We need victory marks to get the big ships. To get the big ships, we need to be in port battles. Of course, that leaves me hanging. I play to play with my friends, and previous to the VM/PVP patch, we could be a self-sufficient clan. Now, we have to suck hind tit to do what we could do just fine a couple weeks ago? Yeah, that's really great. This discussion is what I logged onto today. Thanks a lot, Devs. Thanks for taking the wind out of our sails.
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 You can acquire VMs with PvP marks, which can be acquired not only in port battles. VMs are given to top 3 nations by Conquest points.
Peiper Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Hethwill said: You can acquire VMs with PvP marks, which can be acquired not only in port battles. VMs are given to top 3 nations by Conquest points. I don't have time to PVP. I have time to maybe run a mission or two each day or hunt down a fleet. Other than that, I am a master crafter. I can no longer replace my favorite ships, nor can I build them for the clan. I won't beg or ask my guildies to go grind stuff for me. I am here to help, not take. So, tell me, oh wise Hethwill: what am I to do? Quit my job to play during the day when the Euro folks play and join them in activities that I find stressful (like getting into a big group of egotists and play in big port battles, or sail all over looking for players I don't want to sink and sink them in order to do what I used to do every day?). I don't PVP, but I play on the PVP server because my friends are here. There SHOULD be space for all of us. But the Devs have limited my ability to have fun in order to force a certain play style upon the whole server. I won't bend over for them. There are better things I can do with my time than play their game / jump through their hoops. I am not the only one who feels this way, but they just bitch on teamspeak and give up. I'm fighting here for them too. Edited December 28, 2017 by Peiper spelling
TheLoneWolf Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 Most of you seem to be missing the point here. What we need are players. I understand the style of game play Peiper wishes to play and it should be his choosing. Anyone believing that you can realistically purchase pvp marks or VM at a reasonable price are clearly delusional. Just look at the prices in the market. Also, for nations like Poland, Prussia and Russia, there is no real capital and no real shop where to buy these. I play mostly during north American times and there are basically two options for pvp. 1. join the gank at Tortue, where if you are not part of a group of 7-8 players you are an easy kill or sail endlessly to maybe find a lone trader or player to attack (which is becoming futile since most persons in nations like usa, gb etc.) stay in the reinforcement zones. The end result is that I most often get bored sailing around and finding nothing, I do 1 ow fleet and then do something else. Most of my friends that used to play this game no longer do for these reasons as well, so forming a group is very difficult. The lack of players for pvp killed global and it is happening here. Alienating players or being unrealistic in what they have to do to keep playing will keep alienating them until a select few remain. Clearly this is not the way to go. Instead of trying to impose a style of play, the focus should be put on fixing game mechanics that are broken such as the ability to wait in port and then exit to join a battle right. At Tortue, you tag a player, enter battle and then 6-7 join after. This is ridiculous and clearly broken game mechanic. You should be fighting those who are outside in ow and visible, not the hordes lurking in port. 2
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Odol said: No... some ships in Eve are only available in limited quantities due to being special ships... like the first alliance tournament winner prize ship. That ship is worth an estimated 15k USD real life. Because it can not be rebuilt, and all of its kill marks are unique. There are a few ships in Eve that are like that. There was a whole article about a theft in EVE where someone stole one of these rare/unique ships. VM, PVP Marks, and Combat Marks, are a form of payment, no different than the gold coin system or ISK in Eve. You can gain money in NA by just running missions, killing NPCs, killing players, or just trade. You can buy VM, PVP marks, and Combat marks for gold. So if a ship changes value from one tier of payment, combat marks to Victory Marks, then it just increased in value. So start working towards earning VM either through trade or conquest. If not you are breaking rule number 1... dont sail what you cant afford. Not rocket science. I see people have been pointing out that PvP marks can be bought, but I've never seen any sold. I always assume they were too "precious" to be sold. As for the limited quantity ships, how is the limit set? Is there a hard-cap? Is it a function based on population? As for the prize ships how many were given out and are they still obtainable? These are serious questions that I'd like you to explain. I am not aware of these facts and would like to know. Pleasr and Thank you As for the number 1 rule, I'm sure that's why peiper and the rest said they've mothball the wasa. Essentially preventing from risking it whether it be against player or AIs. In essence we're not breaking the don't sail what you can't replace rule, but when others are more likely to be able to sail what is considered OP while the rest can't it's a bit of an issue. It's a no-brainer. If you're forced to race Kimmie Raikkonen in his F1 on a F1 track using a 1996 Corolla, you'd be wondering if somewhere along the line some decisions were bungled. As for some of the outrage, it might be the sudden change from combat to PvP marks, so players who lost the wasa the day before and had planned to work to get another one was distraught at seeing the new price. It's quite simple to see, really. Edited December 28, 2017 by PenguPirate
Palatinose Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, PenguPirate said: I see people have been pointing out that PvP marks can be bought, but I've never seen any sold. I always assume they were too "precious" to be sold. I sold mine for 200-250k. I only pvp, therefore this is my only income. Check capitals (in a traders lynx) or crowded freetowns like La Tortue, Tumbado or Aves perhaps. Not sure about ppl selling them now, after the Wasa is pvp mark achievable only as well as 1st rates. Could be prices have risen. 1
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Palatinose said: I sold mine for 200-250k. I only pvp, therefore this is my only income. Check capitals (in a traders lynx) or crowded freetowns like La Tortue, Tumbado or Aves perhaps. Not sure about ppl selling them now, after the Wasa is pvp mark achievable only as well as 1st rates. Could be prices have risen. Seen a few contract to buy, never contract for sale. I'll put one up for 300k and see, thanks. Are you tripping over PvP marks at this point? Edited December 28, 2017 by PenguPirate
Niagara Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 On 2017-12-27 at 12:55 PM, Ctulhu74 said: 1." 2nd and 1st rates should be the reward for the better players and since it is a PvP server it should be going to the better PvP players. " 2. " To be honest if you take the time to PvP and RvR your reward should be a bit bigger then that. " 3. " Still many things are lacking in the game and one is something for the casual sailor to do. Missions do get boring after a while and i find the trading missions really lacking in substance or reward " 1. Okies, Here comes the usual Its a PvP server and hence PvE oriented players are less worth and should be quiet and just sail around and be targets for the PvP players but other then that be quiet argument Its a load of smelling bull manure and it should have been left in the manure pile where it belongs. Its a PvP server but that does not prohibit nor does it stop anyone from doing PvE stuff. If that was the case the OW would be much more empty. But you know what I hope Admin removes everything that is seen as PvE and see how much you have left on the server other then the ports and few other PvP players looking for each other cause that would surely stop that backward argument to be ever seen on this forum or in the game. The more players that are out there the better it is for all players that takes part in all activities on the server, PERIOD. 2. If you think that you deserve a reward for the time spent doing PvP, the same argument can be used for PvE players. PvE also takes time so..... 3. Here we agree, Traders are a group that have had little or no content or rewards added and they also sink time into this game and should be rewarded, I want that 6% Open world Skill book that can only be bought by using Traders Mark and other rewards that balance out the playing field between players hunting traders and traders trying to avoid being caught while trading. Yet I see little or No progress being discussed about that. On 2017-12-27 at 1:11 PM, PenguPirate said: 1. "The issue with PvP marks is that for casual players, they don't see it as a probable item to be gotten. It is not a "if I spend 30mins per day for 3 weeks, I'd have a first rate." It's more of a " I need all these factors to be true to get some PvP marks"." 2. " Personally, I picked PvP because at the time I found out I could do both PvE and PvP and have access to all the ships. I am not ashamed to admit that the prospect of sailing a Victory and engaging in ships of the line engagement was the main reason for me to even look into naval action. However, given the recent changes and the more vocal PvP'er cry of "This is PvP. You want fun, go play PvE", I'd not be surprised if others would take the PvE route this time around. It's a game. People want to relax. They can't maintain a state of ruthless competitiveness everytime they log on. It's not being soft/a carebear, wanting to be given everything, it's just we have different levels of commitment we can put into this game. " 1. I agree, the tone and communication here does little to promote players to select to play on the PvP server unless they are 100% pure PvP interested and dont care about the game itself... Not all but a few forum PvP warriors here really do shame the entire PvP community with the vocal views and posts about how PvP is so great and screw the rest of the player types that exist on the server. The more players playing the better it is for all player types. Why don't more players and @Admin get that instead of this focus on pure PvP content in the hope that that will fix everything. 2. I would describe myself as a Crafter, Trader and a little bit of PvP player. Just as you describe there are times where players/people do PvP and other times when they just log in and craft a ship for a friend/clan mate. We need to cater to casuals and hardcore players otherwise this game will lose players and be a very empty Open World to be sailing in, in the end. 4
Liq Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Palatinose said: I sold mine for 200-250k. I only pvp, therefore this is my only income. Check capitals (in a traders lynx) or crowded freetowns like La Tortue, Tumbado or Aves perhaps. Not sure about ppl selling them now, after the Wasa is pvp mark achievable only as well as 1st rates. Could be prices have risen. same, sold 50 at 225k each.. good income, no more pve needed if you dont want to 2
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Niagara said: 1. Okies, Here comes the usual Its a PvP server and hence PvE oriented players are less worth and should be quiet and just sail around and be targets for the PvP players but other then that be quiet argument Its a load of smelling bull manure and it should have been left in the manure pile where it belongs. Its a PvP server but that does not prohibit nor does it stop anyone from doing PvE stuff. If that was the case the OW would be much more empty. But you know what I hope Admin removes everything that is seen as PvE and see how much you have left on the server other then the ports and few other PvP players looking for each other cause that would surely stop that backward argument to be ever seen on this forum or in the game. The more players that are out there the better it is for all players that takes part in all activities on the server, PERIOD. 2. If you think that you deserve a reward for the time spent doing PvP, the same argument can be used for PvE players. PvE also takes time so..... 3. Here we agree, Traders are a group that have had little or no content or rewards added and they also sink time into this game and should be rewarded, I want that 6% Open world Skill book that can only be bought by using Traders Mark and other rewards that balance out the playing field between players hunting traders and traders trying to avoid being caught while trading. Yet I see little or No progress being discussed about that. 1. I agree, the tone and communication here does little to promote players to select to play on the PvP server unless they are 100% pure PvP interested and dont care about the game itself... Not all but a few forum PvP warriors here really do shame the entire PvP community with the vocal views and posts about how PvP is so great and screw the rest of the player types that exist on the server. The more players playing the better it is for all player types. Why don't more players and @Admin get that instead of this focus on pure PvP content in the hope that that will fix everything. 2. I would describe myself as a Crafter, Trader and a little bit of PvP player. Just as you describe there are times where players/people do PvP and other times when they just log in and craft a ship for a friend/clan mate. We need to cater to casuals and hardcore players otherwise this game will lose players and be a very empty Open World to be sailing in, in the end. It's almost like you're saying the economy benefits from people doing different things, so we can enjoy doing things we like more, sort of like the real world where different jobs mean we get to enjoy different services and still do our own things instead of everyone farming for food for their family? What a strange concept. 4
Niagara Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, PenguPirate said: It's almost like you're saying the economy benefits from people doing different things, so we can enjoy doing things we like more, sort of like the real world where different jobs mean we get to enjoy different services and still do our own things instead of everyone farming for food for their family? What a strange concept. Yes, I know. Must be such a strange concept to grasp right.... 2
Niagara Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Hethwill said: You can acquire VMs with PvP marks, which can be acquired not only in port battles. VMs are given to top 3 nations by Conquest points. Where are my Traders marks that can only be acquired by trading over long distances and gives special benefits that can only be bought using these and gives just as good ingame benefits as PvP marks can purchase.... Just asking if you seen them cause they are missing from my inventory... 1
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Niagara said: Where are my Traders marks that can only be acquired by trading over long distances and gives special benefits that can only be bought using these and gives just as good ingame benefits as PvP marks can purchase.... Just asking if you seen them cause they are missing from my inventory... Nope. I see 3 victory marks in my inventory for being a swede tho. Just being a swede. 150 PvP marks worth. Oh man. This alpha test is still so far in its infancy it's annoying Edited December 28, 2017 by PenguPirate 1
Niagara Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, PenguPirate said: Nope. I see 3 victory marks in my inventory for being a swede tho. Just being a swede. 150 PvP marks worth. Oh man. This alpha test is still so far in its infancy it's annoying Actually, not all Swedes get the Victory marks, you need to have participated in PB at some point I assume or all the new players would have gotten them also.
PenguPirate Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Niagara said: Actually, not all Swedes get the Victory marks, you need to have participated in PB at some point I assume or all the new players would have gotten them also. Rank of post captain or higher Will get it for free. I haven't done any RvR since the merge. 1
blademage Posted December 29, 2017 Posted December 29, 2017 On 7.12.2017 at 7:54 PM, admin said: we will have paints We will have to wipe ships to add them back (because paints will be added as ship knowledges (that can be used on that ship forever). And this will require ship wipe because it will change structure of the database making all old ships obsolete and unusuable Will it then require a knowledge slot? Do the ships get one more? Btw. Thank you for the "xmas-paints"!
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