Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[Hawkwood]

12 hours ago, Liq said:

Manual sailing is one of the first things you learn though when going into pvp

This should be a simple sentence introducing a chapter on a new tutorial.

[Hawkwood]

11 hours ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

There are also players that are okay at manual sailing

No such thing being "okay". You CAN sail manually or you CAN`T.

 

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, Cortez said:

No such thing being "okay". You CAN sail manually or you CAN`T.

 

Some just double tap the yards and dont move them parallel to the wind as the ship is turning.. this may help downwind but when coming in on a beam reach / close hauled turn, it will actually be worse than no yard managing, now even more with this update

[Cmdr RideZ]

Almost like in real life...

 

[admin]

38 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Almost like in real life...

 

we are confident that the new tools given to players sailing ships can be tuned to perfection now.. 

 

[Jean Ribault]

Why did the LGV OW sailing profile get so bad?  Why is it so slow now upwind?  Literally 50% or more slower.  Was that just to throw an insult or is there a purpose, or is that set to be tuned?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Landsman]

1 hour ago, Ink said:

Spanker and spirit sail are not listed in the table

Why isn't base speed listed either? Would be rather interesting...

Edited December 8, 2017 by Landsman

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Almost like in real life...

 

 

Just faster....  WAY faster.

[maturin]

Anyone done this yet? Heaviest ship I've got is an Agamemnon.

 

[Jack Jones]

Has anyone noticed the OW sailing profiles upwind??

[Cabral]

2 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

Has anyone noticed the OW sailing profiles upwind??

 I think you are not playing the same game we are playing.

[Malachy]

With limited testing last night here are my impressions: acceleration seems to be king, followed by sail force then rudder turning. I was a little put off by the low rudder turn rate on the Connie compared to other 4ths but she turns better than the others In the limited testing I. Was able to do last night. When I started looking at acceleration values, I understood why, she recovers speed much quicker than the others, allowing for Better sail handling. 

The structure speed reduction seems irrelevant. The Agamemnon vs Agamemnon pvp battle I had, I sank the guy before he had any time to try to flee. With the easily damaged structure we have, younobly need a single broadside in larger ships to start it sinking after the armor is gone. Not a mechanic that adds anything to the game in my opinion.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Malachy

[vazco]

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

we are confident that the new tools given to players sailing ships can be tuned to perfection now.. 

That's true. I have a few questions to the current sail model (which finally starts to feel "real"):

1. is there a reason why didn't you add leeway? Is there a chance to add it in the future? We could make some interesting maneuvering with a leeway.
2. is it possible to remove "magic" from autoskipper, so that he corrects course either through rudder or sails, rather than invisible rails? (which is a feeling right now it seems)

Some additional nice-to-have remarks:

1. could be great to be able to change trimming to optimize for speed/maneuverability in-battle.
   • maybe it would be already an improvement if battle sails were optimized for maneuverability

 

6 hours ago, rediii said:

Because Liq knows a tiny bit more than how to turn 2 masts

Yeah, I saw him turn 3 masts once. I believe he turned them to shredds.

[vazco]

39 minutes ago, Malachy said:

The structure speed reduction seems irrelevant. (...) Not a mechanic that adds anything to the game in my opinion.

...until you get hit by a mortar brig...

[admin]

1 hour ago, maturin said:

Anyone done this yet? Heaviest ship I've got is an Agamemnon.

 

try tacking in bellona or aga at 3 knots you can get completely stuck 

[George Washington]

@admin tested Constitution yesterday. Problems could be true for all other ships. Few problems here:

1. When ship hits the wave (going up/down) , motion is not smooth it feels like it's jumping up and down. Very choppy motion with constant jerks. Checked ping and FPS all normal. 

2. When 2 ships hit each other near land, they freeze for some time and then they use turbo boost and sail away with x10 the normal speed for a bout 2 seconds. It must be separation code or something, ships don't act natural. Imagine balloon with someone applying pressure to it and then it pops, but all that pressure and object is moving forward. That is what you get with these NPCs. 

3. Prevent ships from entering shallow / land. Draw invisible wall (about 10 meters from the land) where they can spin and stop. NPCs in my 2 battles got stuck on land an were just sitting there with sails down. 

All this was tested around Nipe port in that small island opening. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by George Washington

[Malachy]

1 minute ago, admin said:

try tacking in bellona or aga at 3 knots you can get completely stuck 

Who does that???

[maturin]

Quote

is it possible to remove "magic" from autoskipper, so that he corrects course either through rudder or sails, rather than invisible rails? (which is a feeling right now it seems)

The only result of this complicated new feature would be a very slight speed reduction on autoskipper (which would have to be exhaustively tested for all ships anytime a patch changes something), plus a whole barrel of UI confusion.

Better just to pretend that the master is making small rudder adjustments and trimming the jibs/spanker.

 

Quote

maybe it would be already an improvement if battle sails were optimized for maneuverability

Yeah, maybe lower sail settings should have a multiplier to rudder effectiveness and sail side force, just so it's a viable option.

As it stands, I NEVER go less than 100%, unless I am hounding a damaged enemy who is completely in my power.

[Jean Ribault]

1 hour ago, Cabral said:

 I think you are not playing the same game we are playing.

Perhaps you are not?   They've changed.

[Malachy]

5 minutes ago, maturin said:

The only result of this complicated new feature would be a very slight speed reduction on autoskipper (which would have to be exhaustively tested for all ships anytime a patch changes something), plus a whole barrel of UI confusion.

Better just to pretend that the master is making small rudder adjustments and trimming the jibs/spanker.

 

Yeah, maybe lower sail settings should have a multiplier to rudder effectiveness and sail side force, just so it's a viable option.

As it stands, I NEVER go less than 100%, unless I am hounding a damaged enemy who is completely in my power.

You should try it, you can't effectively stern camp someone without lowering sails lol

[Malachy]

24 minutes ago, vazco said:

...until you get hit by a mortar brig...

Why would I get hit by a mortar brig? I got hit one time when I was a noob and learned how to sail to prevent them getting an aiming solution

i doubt ill ever encounter one anyhow, with RVR a failed mechanic, it holds very little value to me, and I rarely participate in port battles. Being a pirate, I'm set up in free ports, only keep one national port to buy pvp mods lol.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Malachy

[Malachy]

11 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Do you think that is good for game health? Unless you can provide detailed tutorial that teaches all the sailing techniques it will work, but sailing is too complex for new guys right now. I sail in my turn fitted Constitution and can still do 3:1 broadsides, but not as effectively as before with so much work involved. For hardcore players it's a dream come true, but new guys are doomed. 

You should be able to tack properly by the time you acquire those ships. If you haven't, you deserve to lose them imho.

[vazco]

@admin is there a chance I'll get an answer to my questions? Or should I just stop asking? It's my third approach now, even "I won't answer" answer would be nice.

49 minutes ago, vazco said:

I have a few questions to the current sail model:

1. is there a reason why didn't you add leeway? Is there a chance to add it in the future? We could make some interesting maneuvering with a leeway.
2. is it possible to remove "magic" from autoskipper, so that he corrects course either through rudder or sails, rather than invisible rails? (which is a feeling right now it seems)

Some additional nice-to-have remarks:

1. could be great to be able to change trimming to optimize for speed/maneuverability in-battle.
   • maybe it would be already an improvement if battle sails were optimized for maneuverability

 

[Capn Rocko]

First thoughts:

I am a little bummed about the way some of my favorite frigates turned out, but I am also really excited about some of the frigates that I rarely sailed in the past. 

I am very excited about the tacking difficulty as it really makes you think about going through the wind and makes fighting for wind advantage very important. For those who are upset with this change, there are dozens of tacking tutorials on youtube. The developers will make an in-game tutorial soon, but there are plenty of player-made tutorials that are likely better than anything that will implemented in-game (imo). Every time I help a new player, I make them watch several tutorial videos before I show them anything and they always thank me for it. 

I haven't tested it, but I read the Wasa got a turning buff... I honestly wish they would take the rudder off this ship lol. Wasa's are free ships and have lots of firepower, stop buffing them. 

Overall, I think these last few patches have moved the game in the right direction. Some players will always complain no matter what is changed. More thoughts soon. 

[Quineloe]

Has anything been done about first / second rates handling like frigates, ie being able to turn through the wind from a full stop in under a minute?

That's my feedback: Wind matters very little now with good jib sailers.