Patch 14: Part 1 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[victor]

Just now, admin said:

I think you are looking for intent  where it does not exist. 
Speed curves were adjusted and it might affect ow speeds. OW speeds will be adjusted later to bring them up to reasonable numbers.

Well I can judge intent just from the facts. What it will come later, I cannot tell now. And you will agree that 2 knots (if not in irons) in OS is a huge impact on the possibility to use properly a ship.

Edited November 21, 2017 by victor

[George Washington]

You have a chance to increase OS speeds, so do it now. Nice patch BTW. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

9 minutes ago, victor said:

Well I can judge intent just from the facts. What it will come later, I cannot tell now. And you will agree that 2 knots (if not in irons) in OS is a huge impact on the possibility to use properly a ship.

You probably will sue your surgeon for cutting you with the knife judging his intent by the facts (ignoring the fact that he will patch you up later) 

[George Washington]

With this new system, can we drift from side to side like shown on image? 11 --> 12. BTW this image shows river downstream sailing. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by George Washington

[Yngvarr]

16 minutes ago, victor said:

I'd say just another unnecesary (and not requested by the community) change to make our game experience a pain in the ....

Just take a breath, test the changes, reports any bugs and exercise patience until the dev's balance everything out.

Yes, it might be annoying, it might take time until all the pieces fall into place, but this is the way games are developed, tested and adjusted.

 

 

[Pagan Pete]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Hello Captains

While programmers are working on the tutorial and the user interface we will address the long overdue Battle ratings, combat performance and sailing performance of the vessels in the series of patches.

This patch is first part of the final ship performance rebalance and addresses sailing performance of ships of the line (from 4th rates to 1st rates). The goal is to bring more realism into sail curves and yard power. 1000-1200 square meters of sail of the fore mast on the first rate should provide enough side force, allowing amazing realistic maneuvers and more options in combat.

Maneuvers like this become possible (to an certain degree):

 

Changes done (4th rates, 3rd rates, 2nd rates, 1st rates)
1) Exact (better) Balance between staysails and square sails
2) Exact (better) Balance between front mast and stern mast + spanker
3) Yard powers was reduced (based on agamemnon testing from 4 to 3) for better more realistic performance. Rudder power slightly increased for Aga based on the testing. 

Speed changes example 4th rates (ignoring indiaman)

• 4th rates are split into 3 groups
• Downwind sailers - excellent performance downwind due to more square sails area
  • Agamemnon (67% square sails area)
  • Ingermanland (68% square sails area)
• Universal sailers - ok performance downwind but great performance upwind
  • Constitution (60% square sails area)
  • Wasa (61% square sails area)
• Good turnrate brawlers (ok performance everywhere, but great turning)
  • Wapen

Implications

• Damage model will improve drastically due to exact calculations of square areas of sails 
• Constitution has more square sails per mast it will get an additional buff to yard power (effect on rotational force)
• Some ships will get lee on bow (bow will turn better)
• Some ships will get lee on stern (stern will turn better)
• Main mast role will be significantly reduced for turning for all ships due to mast position

Example of main gameplay change

• Constitution/Wasa will not catch Agamemnon downwind
• Agamemnon/Inger will never catch Constitution upwind

Open world speed will be slightly relaxed to give more flexibility and will be adjusted more if needed 

Remember that this is a first draft of changes and they WILL require tuning. But its a great start for finalization of the sailing model and making every ship unique

Some ships might require additional tuning based on our additional testing and research and your feedback

Known issues: 

Bots are affected and might need rebalance (especially making sternway). Bots in epic events are also affected and became dumber.
OW speeds might go down for some ships at angles closer to wind - we will monitor situation and adjust it if needed)
 

 

While you are at it, can you PLEASE return the Privateers sail controls to the old version? Its a fore and aft rigged, raked-mast schooner, not a sloop of war! =oO
Giving it the same sail control options as the Cutter and the Prince and a… Brig??? Just isn't how that boat is sailed.
[_]p
Pagan Pete

[victor]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

You probably will sue your surgeon for cutting you with the knife judging his intent by the facts (ignoring the fact that he will patch you up later) 

Well, then let's see how long will this surgeon take to patch (in both senses).

Edited November 21, 2017 by victor

[victor]

Just now, Yngvarr said:

Just take a breath, test the changes, reports any bugs and exercise patience until the dev's balance everything out.

Yes, it might be annoying, it might take time until all the pieces fall into place, but this is the way games are developed, tested and adjusted.

 

 

2knots anyway upwind (not in irons) does not require much testing. Please read what I was referring to.

Edited November 21, 2017 by victor

[Jean Ribault]

Nice well thought out patch IMO.  I enjoy the tunings more than the major overhaul patches, so this will provide a lot of fun for the community over the next few weeks and hopefully highlight the strengths of ships more.

[Musculb]

always dreamed of drifting on santisima 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Moscalb

[Yngvarr]

21 minutes ago, admin said:

OW speeds will be adjusted later to bring them up to reasonable numbers.

@victor It will get sorted out, patience is a virtue mate

[Jean Ribault]

1 minute ago, victor said:

2knots anyway upwind (not in irons) does not require much testing. Please read what I was referring to.

If you're talking about the Aggy, it's now 3, both sides upwind to about 40 degrees off bow.  Just took it for a spin.  Could use another boost in future.  Seems to react the same alone or fleeted with a Connie as lead or lag.

[victor]

Just now, Yngvarr said:

@victor It will get sorted out, patience is a virtue mate

after 2800 hours in this game, indeed.

I add it's not eternal.

PS: my question is - since there were no pressure of the community for this change - why just not wait a week more and putting the whole thing in game, including reasonable OS speeds?

Edited November 21, 2017 by victor

[qw569😳]

2 hours ago, admin said:

While programmers are working on the tutorial

The best manual from programmers is code with comments

2 hours ago, admin said:

Maneuvers like this become possible (to an certain degree):

 

I see maneuver 20, 21 use anchor. Are we can use anchor?

Edited November 21, 2017 by qw569

[Cmdr RideZ]

You are not really saying it so going to ask.  Draft affects how ship sails after this or not?

[Busterbloodvessel]

EU have now decreed that all Agge's are to be fitted with a mandatory 'through the wind' reversing claxon. Due to demand Admiralty shops are suffering from a supply shortage.

Buster (ear defenders everyone, Buster's going to curse) 

[Busterbloodvessel]

4 go opposite direction to fleet (5 & 6)

7, 8, 9, 10, 11 cluster f*ck

12 manual sails wrong

13, 14 in irons

16 long way behind everyone else

17 Ramming speed

20 demasted

24 hit sail repairs and exit control circle backwards

 

This is how I normally sail in port battles. What's the patch for?

 

Buster (quizzical look)

Edited November 22, 2017 by Busterbloodvessel

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Moscalb said:

always dreamed of drifting on santisima 

Снос (или как вы называете дрифт) был элементом который отсутствовал в кораблях - его надо только дотюнить
Sideforce or as you call it drift was a key element of ship behavior which was lacking in the game - we only have to tune it

 

here is an example of properly working side force

[CaptainCaveMan]

1 hour ago, Lord Bomgordel said:

Ok, what realism is next? Reinforcement zones gone/shrinked/or only protecting players up to a certain rank?

YES PLS

PS. Love this patch, GJ

Lets just kill off any hope of getting new players.

[Yngvarr]

Just now, admin said:

Снос (или как вы называете дрифт) был элементом который отсутствовал в кораблях - его надо только дотюнить
Sideforce or as you call it drift was a key element of ship behavior which was lacking in the game - we only have to tune it

 

here is an example of properly working side force

So we can use sidewards drift to get closed to a sunk vessel to loot it (if the situation requires it)

[Teutonic]

Looks good.

Again, the OW speed for these ships is agonizingly slow when sailing upwind. Where previously we were sailing at 8-10knts the ship now sails at 2knts.

I really do like these sail wind changes in a battle instance, but I really dislike them in the OW. That is my conclusion from testing this.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Teutonic

[George Washington]

Something like this. It's actually very close. You can see how it's being pulled back , drift and forward. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Leeway. ... mmmhmmmm

Can the hull be coded to be affected by wind also ?

[Hodo]

Can we get gun accuracy addressed next after this... right now the guns being hyper accurate is the reason for the mast issues.

[Rigge1988]

1 hour ago, qw569 said:

The best manual from programmers is code with comments

SHIP_OPENWORLD_MAX_SPEED: 2kn

/* this will upset people */

?