Anti-gank rewards nerf!

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Malachy said:

That's actually not true. The Endymion, renomee, and 5 or 6 of the 6 th rates can. It's mainly 4th and 3rd that need sail force. Maybe half the frigates.

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking.

Ships rebalance needs to come soon before speed/upgrade solutions can be talked about.

[Malachy]

Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking.

Ships rebalance needs to come soon before speed/upgrade solutions can be talked about.

That I can get behind!

[Lz3]

yes yes yes please! This is something the game needs!

[Fargo]

On 20.11.2017 at 8:08 PM, Malachy said:

I'd like to go come out and pvp with me so that you can learn the error of your statements. Even if two ships have the same speed, they have different points of sail which adds quite abit of variety. A Connie and trinc could always take on a surprise. Speed will always be king because the main point of combat in this game is to secure the wind advantage. As long as some ships are neutered and unable to keep up, they will never be competitive. Watch the aloha vs  exile battle on liquicitys stream. That demonstrates completely how speed controls a fight. Our two indes were much heavier and slower and their little frigates won pretty easily by controlling the fight. Slow ships will never have an advantage no matter how tough or maneuverable you make them. Fast ships will jockey for position, obtain the position and take down sails. Once they have your sails down, a heavy ship is a setting duck. Why do you think it's so easy to take a first rate out with a 4th or 5th rate? It's speed. 

Ow pvp is working better now than it has ever worked. Bringing back 17 knot endymions and surprises would set this game back months and ruin all the positive progress we have made. 

I would be more than willing to demonstrate the flaws in your argument in person, either opposing you or sailing with you. Sounds like you need to spend more time pvping under new mechanics instead of rehashing old flawed arguments about why some ships should be more powerful than others. Speed is king and always will be. Now pvp is more about recognizing and understandings how to defeat your opponents sailing profile. No more ships avoid battle now than they did in the past. The difference is with the caps, more ships are viable now and the previously overpowered ones are in line with everything else. A surprise can still escape upwind, but it's not gonna chase down a Connie downwind too. That's the most important change the speedcaps bring. Anyone who wants speed caps removed wants to bring back the old meta and an artificial advantage they lost. Ships are on a much more even footing now than they have ever been. Pvp abit more. Sail with some good folks. It helps.

You probably dont get my point and im not willing to continue discussion once again about obvious nonesense. Its disgusting that players even defend stuff like this. Im not saying that it was much better before, and just removing speedcap alone wont fix the gank meta. Defensive tagging is there since i can think for example, the same level of nonesense.

"The difference is with the caps, more ships are viable now and the previously overpowered ones are in line with everything else." -  I explained why this has nothing to do with variety, this is not a valid answer.

Ofcourse speed is currently controlling the fight, thats why im trying to tell you how this can be changed. Think out of your box. And im not talking about slow heavy ships. How efficient you can take down sails on distance is also just a variable, you dont win the fight this way, and i can do the same with your sails. I could just sit there, turn my sails 90° and wait for you, because you are the aggressor. Fixing defensive tagging also means that ships spawn closer to each other. Control instead of tagging means you cant sail on max distance and use heel to shoot me while i cant shoot you.

Sailing profiles just became messed up with all ships speedcapped. The surprise with 12.3 base speed is not a very fast ship, but it has a superior sailing profile. Speedcap takes away the downwind disadvantage, ships with good upwind profiles became OP. The surprise can escape everything upwind, and nothing can catch anything downwind, thats what speedcap brings. 

As i told you, the reason its much better again is that many ships arent speedcapped anymore since they nerved upgrades and raised the cap. Ships not able to reach speedcap equals removing speedcap. 

[Malachy]

27 minutes ago, Fargo said:

You probably dont get my point and im not willing to continue discussion once again about obvious nonesense. Its disgusting that players even defend stuff like this. Im not saying that it was much better before, and just removing speedcap alone wont fix the gank meta. Defensive tagging is there since i can think for example, the same level of nonesense.

"The difference is with the caps, more ships are viable now and the previously overpowered ones are in line with everything else." -  I explained why this has nothing to do with variety, this is not a valid answer.

Ofcourse speed is currently controlling the fight, thats why im trying to tell you how this can be changed. Think out of your box. And im not talking about slow heavy ships. How efficient you can take down sails on distance is also just a variable, you dont win the fight this way, and i can do the same with your sails. I could just sit there, turn my sails 90° and wait for you, because you are the aggressor. Fixing defensive tagging also means that ships spawn closer to each other. Control instead of tagging means you cant sail on max distance and use heel to shoot me while i cant shoot you.

Sailing profiles just became messed up with all ships speedcapped. The surprise with 12.3 base speed is not a very fast ship, but it has a superior sailing profile. Speedcap takes away the downwind disadvantage, ships with good upwind profiles became OP. The surprise can escape everything upwind, and nothing can catch anything downwind, thats what speedcap brings. 

As i told you, the reason its much better again is that many ships arent speedcapped anymore since they nerved upgrades and raised the cap. Ships not able to reach speedcap equals removing speedcap. 

You are so wrong, I don't know where to start, so I won't. The only statement I'll address is your last one. almost every professional pvper on the server is speed capped and most of the carebears who play at pvp are too. You need to get out more.

[Fargo]

4 minutes ago, Malachy said:

You are so wrong, I don't know where to start, so I won't. The only statement I'll address is your last one. almost every professional pvper on the server is speed capped and most of the carebears who play at pvp are too. You need to get out more.

I dont claim to know this, i just read what people say, i have tools to calculate speeds, i looks whats likely. It became definitely pretty hard to reach speedcap for many vessels without upgrades and specific books. I think liq said hes not using speedcapped ships anymore. You just told me that most wasas arent speedcapped. Slim just said this.

On 20.11.2017 at 8:30 PM, Slim Jimmerson said:

No ship will even reach 15.5 knts without stacking sail force bonus mods. That's what we should be looking at

Im using simple logic, therefore it should be pretty simple to point out flaws. And im not the one going defense claiming to know what youre arguing for.

[Malachy]

1 hour ago, Fargo said:

I dont claim to know this, i just read what people say, i have tools to calculate speeds, i looks whats likely. It became definitely pretty hard to reach speedcap for many vessels without upgrades and specific books. I think liq said hes not using speedcapped ships anymore. You just told me that most wasas arent speedcapped. Slim just said this.

Im using simple logic, therefore it should be pretty simple to point out flaws. And im not the one going defense claiming to know what youre arguing for.

And if you weren't cherry picking to suit your outdated opinions, I listed several ships you could exceed the speed cap with with just one or two mods. And slim amended his assertion after I posted multiple ships that could exceed the cap off the top of my head. 

 And books and mods aren't terribly difficult to obtain these days. I've got every speed book and dozens of spares of the mods and i barely do any carebear play.

Some folks don't play by the meta, but the vast majority do. Liq has always been a rogue when it comes to pvp. He's one of the few who still sail a surprise. 

If you read what I said about the wasa instead of what you wanted to hear, I said it is very hard to speed cap a wasa without sacrificing everything that makes a wasa good to use (the 32 lb guns). The heavy guns make it hard to speed cap it. 

Removing the speed cap will make all the heavier ships we use in pvp useless again because they don't have the speed to catch anything and seal the deal, and lack the maneuverability that comes with high speeds. You will be right back to surprises, renomees and endymions being the only viable pvp ships, the surprise because of its upwind abilities and the other two because they can hit 17 plus knots barely trying. 

I don't know a single real pvper that wants to go from what we have now, back to extremely limited ship selection. If you advocate removing speed caps you are ignorantly requesting a return to the dark ages of naval action where most ships are disused.

fortunately, based on the new profile changes, I think the developers are totally ignoring you lol. 

By the way, the reason the speed meta may change and Asmara of today some folks may be looking at heavier builds is not the removaL of the speed cap, but sailing profiles and the new handling of ships may be changing  the stern rake meta, which ultimately may lead to more broadside action, and you will want more armor for that. 

There is a lot more testing to do, but pvp will be changing one way or another here very shortly. I suggest again that you get out and do some pvp rather than base your conclusions and suggestions on what you read here. Most of what you read here is heavily biased and not representative of the current reality of pvp. Im usually involved in at least half a dozen fights every day. Don't take my word for it, go out and do something yourself. You can't come here advocating a change to a really bad meta that the community and developers discarded months ago based only on what you read. If you didn't do any testing, you do not have a valid opinion and shouldn't be spouting off what you think needs to change. That's like a blind man asking for the sky to be turned hot pink because he likes the color.