Sella Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, admin said: i know it could be 2 in the OW. he said that the Agamemnon is faster in the instance at the same angle (which is impossible) So yeah basically its the same. Btw currently it feels too good when you get the hang of it. I dare to say that it reaches "frigate-like" maneuvaribility. Need to test it more Edited November 16, 2017 by Sella22 1
RedNeckMilkMan Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 Newest patch is hype. I hope the ships get more diverse in their sailing patterns.
maturin Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Hodo said: I fear what this is going to do to ships like the Prince and Pickle if they arent given the option of dropping the square sails and running on the Jibs and fore-aft rigged sails. I just tested the Aggie, and with braced-up yards you need to get very high into the wind before you can make more than a knot of sternway. So not likely to be a problem. Since there's no sail blanketing or leeway in the game, both vessels already get the full benefit of doing what you describe, without actually changing the sailplan. On a reasonably free point of sail, anyway. By the time the square are creating meaningful negative thrust, the fore/aft canvas wouldn't realistically be doing much anyhow. 1
z4ys Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) I like it. Feels more like it should be. Now we just missing better sail area control and maybe every mast with independent control Edited November 16, 2017 by z4ys 4
Landsman Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Intrepido said: And with a big ship is not very easy to avoid being raked. Try to rake a SOL without any masts on your ship.
admin Posted November 16, 2017 Author Posted November 16, 2017 2 hours ago, maturin said: I just tested the Aggie, and with braced-up yards you need to get very high into the wind before you can make more than a knot of sternway. So not likely to be a problem. Since there's no sail blanketing or leeway in the game, both vessels already get the full benefit of doing what you describe, without actually changing the sailplan. On a reasonably free point of sail, anyway. By the time the square are creating meaningful negative thrust, the fore/aft canvas wouldn't realistically be doing much anyhow. Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards?
admin Posted November 16, 2017 Author Posted November 16, 2017 to everyone Individual sails are awesome but hard to control in a multiplayer game (they will work great in a single player game though where everything can be slower)
z4ys Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, admin said: Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Quote Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards? maybe it solves a part of the question
Hodo Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 35 minutes ago, admin said: Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards? I was understanding that stay sails, and jibs were shaped the way they are to act like a wing in the wind. Where they do best into the wind, well closer to the eye of the wind. As they would create a high pressure and a low pressure thus "pull" the sail into the wind.
z4ys Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 I guess the drag of the mainsails will counter all forward movement
z4ys Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 44 minutes ago, admin said: to everyone Individual sails are awesome but hard to control in a multiplayer game (they will work great in a single player game though where everything can be slower) Can we get at least the option to just raise staysails without putting mainsails up as well? 6
Jarlath Morrow Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 minute ago, z4ys said: Can we get at least the option to just raise staysails without putting mainsails up as well? That is the million dollar question right now. Maybe it could work like a inverse depower - a button that when hit, orders the sailing crew to begin reefing all square sails. 4
Suppenkelle Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, admin said: Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards? what do you mean by "open"? All sheets of the staysails loose? If so, there will only be resistance no force forward. So, the ship will slowly loose speed and eventually start drifting more or less backwards. The exact direction of the drift depends on many variables incl. for example the shape of the hull, wind resistance of the mast and rigging, length of the bowsprit, overall balance of the ship, distribution of displacement, etc. but roughly the drift will be in leeward direction and not directly over the stern.
NavalActionPlayer Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 3 hours ago, z4ys said: I like it. Feels more like it should be. Now we just missing better sail area control and maybe every mast with independent control Being stupid or not paying attention here.....what are you doing differently now to what you would have done before? I am a bear of little brain so spell it out for me please
z4ys Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, NavalActionPlayer said: Being stupid or not paying attention here.....what are you doing differently now to what you would have done before? I am a bear of little brain so spell it out for me please The moment of sail movement and the depowering. Maybe you did it right before. But i know many players that just pressed double "E" , "Q" , "C" or "Z" Edited November 16, 2017 by z4ys
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, admin said: Individual sails (...) will work great in a single player game though where everything can be slower They "will" like 'in a future SP game made by Games-lab' ? or they "will' work great in PvE in the current NA ? or they "would" work great in a SP game ? Edited November 16, 2017 by LeBoiteux
Salty Dog. Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, admin said: Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards? No, If you have sailed, the staysails do not work the way your diagram is drawn.(1d in a 3d world) only the head of the sail (the part attached to the "stay") remains fore and aft, the leech of the sail creates a airfoil that provides forward thrust. Think how the jib sails work, staysails work the same way. Edited November 16, 2017 by Salty Dog on Global
GrubbyZebra Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said: @Christendom @Coraline Vodka @The Red Duke @Wraith Here is a good example of macro for manual sailing: Well, that was a lot to watch.....don't see what the macro is doing tho....
DeRuyter Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 5 hours ago, z4ys said: I guess the drag of the mainsails will counter all forward movement It was a limitation based on the rigging. You can only brace up square sails so far - 6 points at best. Even with a fore and aft rigged vessel it is 4 pts off the wind. So yes ultimately your sails are taken aback. 5 hours ago, z4ys said: Can we get at least the option to just raise staysails without putting mainsails up as well? Interesting point here. My question would be why wasn't this a sail plan for square rigged ships sailing close hauled, I have not read about it or seen modern tall ships with just staysails set(other than in a storm or under power). Maybe there was insufficient sail area with just those set? Also having different sails set balanced a ship in different ways which could upset the sailing qualities. Keep in mind that IRL the Aggy made 6 knts close hauled (sailing report 1797) which was no closer than 60 degrees to the wind and likely more. For game play reasons ships can sail much closer to the wind than IRL of course but I see no problem with a change in the curve and a reduction in speed close to the wind - at 20 degrees none of the sails should be providing forward movement, so 2 knts is a gift. 1
Landsman Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Intrepido said: We have multiple repairs. And some ships can dance a tango at the stern of one big ship without receiving any damage. Just stack turnrate buffs and get a good tag.
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) @admin found a bug with the Agamemnon. If you run aground with the wind, you cannot tack off. Actually tacking at all is abit of a chore. Also it suffers from the capsize bug Edited November 17, 2017 by Malachy
maturin Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 7 hours ago, admin said: Here is a theoretical question for you What would be the speed in this situation? All sails are open Would not speed be negative due to wind pushing the ship staysails backwards? Why would the staysails push the ship backwards? They are creating lift, like a wing. Delete the square yards and imagine that the diagram shows a three-masted schooner. It's sailing close-hauled. BUT, quadrilateral staysails on a square rigger are not very good. They are creating lift, but not nearly enough to be useful. So that ship in the diagram might be making a few knots under staysails alone, while the square sails luff and uselessly flog all over the place. Meanwhile it's probably sailing sideways because of enormous amounts of leeway. Large quadrilateral staysails contain a lot of excess canvas that just increases leeway. When very close to the wind, less and less of the canvas is doing anything useful (creating lift), and the result is leeway. So that ship's actual course may be like 300 degrees.
maturin Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, DeRuyter said: Interesting point here. My question would be why wasn't this a sail plan for square rigged ships sailing close hauled, I have not read about it or seen modern tall ships with just staysails set(other than in a storm or under power). Maybe there was insufficient sail area with just those set? Also having different sails set balanced a ship in different ways which could upset the sailing qualities. Lack of sufficient sail area must be the main reason. And low speed upwind = lots of leeway. So you might as well go faster and hold your wind with the squares set. Because they never sailed like that. Harland says that references to ships sailing under staysails alone referred to maneuvers just after weighing anchor. And yet, to be the devil's advocate, a full suit of staysails could be a lot of canvas. I guess they just weren't well-designed. Many captains regarded them as practically useless generators of leeway. You don't have much fine control over the shape of the sail, and I imagine that controlling the tack and sheet would be risky in heavy air, compared to the durable components of a square sail and its yard. Later in the 1800s all the staysails became triangular, which everyone agreed was a big improvement. Less superfluous canvas, better airfoil shapes and less leeway. It would be interesting to ask the crews of 20th century windjammers whether they could work upwind with staysails alone. 1
maturin Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 10 hours ago, z4ys said: I like it. Feels more like it should be. Now we just missing better sail area control and maybe every mast with independent control Just a reminder that this isn't the historical method of tacking. It was generally detrimental to depower the fore yards, and in the video the rotation of the after yards occurs way too soon. And the gamey method offers a big advantage over the historical method. When I try to tack authentically, I always make a bit of sternway. I'm really not sure how this could be fixed without scripted solutions, though. 3
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, maturin said: Just a reminder that this isn't the historical method of tacking. It was generally detrimental to depower the fore yards, and in the video the rotation of the after yards occurs way too soon. And the gamey method offers a big advantage over the historical method. When I try to tack authentically, I always make a bit of sternway. I'm really not sure how this could be fixed without scripted solutions, though. Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering.
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