Hotfix for patch 13. Le Gros Ventre Refit + Swivels!!!

[Landsman]

3 hours ago, maturin said:

That wouldn't happen except when suddenly caught aback at considerable speed in rough weather. Every time you tack the main yards are momentarily squared and flat aback.

On the other hand, a sort of rigging shock for doing this might be in order. It would prevent abusive tacking tactics of flipping the main yards 30 degrees too early.

What do you think about multiple repairs ( Hull, Masts / Sails and Crew ) during battle regarding the balance of realism and enjoyable gameplay?

[Jesters-Ink]

22 minutes ago, Landsman said:

What do you think about multiple repairs ( Hull, Masts / Sails and Crew ) during battle regarding the balance of realism and enjoyable gameplay?

I don't think we should have repairs at all in battle. As for demasting square on, I was only asking if it was going to be added or not, not saying it should or should not.

[Landsman]

1 minute ago, Jesters-Ink said:

I don't think we should have repairs at all in battle.

That would definitely be interesting but not sure how it would work out with the chain and demast spam...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

4 hours ago, maturin said:

 

On the other hand, a sort of rigging shock for doing this might be in order. It would prevent abusive tacking tactics of flipping the main yards 30 degrees too early.

Hmmm... guess the potential speed versus the flip of the yards might be a interesting thing. Those sharpest turns into the eye of wind always looked freaky.

[admin]

On 19.11.2017 at 4:38 AM, maturin said:

Conversely, if you back the main and mizzen yards, the powerful rotation effect spins the ship into the wind, no matter what you do. Because 2 masts > 1 mast. This isn't a problem IRL because the jibs can be used to control rotation. But in the game we only have the rudder, and the rudder is helpless.

Therefore, a major part of historical sailing is now impossible. It's a big loss to the game's realism.

I think we should just ignore the center mast in the calculations of the bow and stern wind push (unless it is located closer to stern or bow). If the mast is in the center of the ship it should not provide significant rotational force due to its location.

[Edward J Kenway]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

I think we should just ignore the center mast in the calculations of the bow and stern wind push (unless it is located closer to stern or bow). If the mast is in the center of the ship it should not provide significant rotational force due to its location.

That not a bad suggestion honestly I think whats killing it for me is the rough deceleration when tacking i guess I think a ship should have more momentum or give the rudder enough kick so you dont have sternway. Personally I say hello kitty it make all the ships with this profile of sailing and watch the chaos. Its hard to get a grasp on how a ship performs when you can be run down so easily by the old system.

[maturin]

2 hours ago, admin said:

I think we should just ignore the center mast in the calculations of the bow and stern wind push (unless it is located closer to stern or bow). If the mast is in the center of the ship it should not provide significant rotational force due to its location.

Strictly speaking the mainmast is abaft of the center of rotation. So it creates rotational force to windward.

But it isn't very far aft. So the force is not necessarily very great.

It would solve very many problems if the fore and mizzen masts provided roughly similar rotational force. At least close enough so that the rudder could balance them out. Bonus points if the amount of rotational force varies among different ships.

Of course, then we run into problems if people lose their mizzen masts and fly out of control.

I haven't had much time to think about other drawbacks.

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, admin said:

I think we should just ignore the center mast in the calculations of the bow and stern wind push (unless it is located closer to stern or bow). If the mast is in the center of the ship it should not provide significant rotational force due to its location.

This will dial back the (imo) excessive downwind rate of turn of the Agamemnon, all good.

________________________________

Aus der reihe:

 

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, maturin said:

Of course, then we run into problems if people lose their mizzen masts and fly out of control.

Wouldn't that be fantastic!?

I mean, doesn't this offend you?

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Oh... possible to have the Hull being affected by wind...  ?

[IndianaGeoff]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:12 PM, Christendom said:

If you're going to remove outlaw battles forever, it's time to give us another forged papers.  As @Peter Goldman mentioned above, outlaw battles were one of the primary reasons my clan also went from Brit to Pirate.  We were tired of the bickering in nation chat and not being able to do anything about it.  Now that option is off the table, and it doesn't look like you're implementing clan wars anytime soon.....we really have no reason to be pirate anymore.  

Issue another round of forged papers please.  

How can you not have extra forged papers?  They have been handed out like candy.

Secondly, Pirates have been a Nation for a long time.  Sailing in 25 man custom 1st rate fleets (something the old rules did not allow).  Removing outlaws just removed a mechanic that was being abused for in game advantage.  Pirates had unique advantages and limits for quite a while.  Rather than accept them and be something different, they were used for advantage or bypassed through alts and then they marching across the map like a national.

Human nature is what it is.

If Pirates are going to be different, then the changes will have to be drastic and hard coded.  Absent that (and the state for the past six months), they are just another national.  The current change just recognizes reality. At least on Global.

[IndianaGeoff]

15 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Can someone please explain to me how outlaw battles were used for exploiting? I still don't get it after so many weeks...

Pirates can fight Pirates.  One way to use it is to sail into enemy waters.  Start an outlaw battle.  Don't fight each other and sit in the fight while another national or an alt watches outside the battle.  Once a good target appears, exit the battle, sail up to them and start the fight.

Profit.

You can "sit" in enemy waters unseen until you are ready to attack.  You can start this mechanic any place or any time.  Yes, you can do similar with AI fleets, but you can't control the timing, placement and you have to actually fight until the AI ships are crippled and still wait to exit the fight if you are keeping the combat active.

The same mechanic can be used to escape.  Two pirates exit a battle and quickly fight each other.  If they are far enough away they can sit for up to an hour and a half safely in an outlaw battle while the defense fleet gets bored and leaves.  Again, you can fully control the timing and location unlike AI fights.

Excuse me if I got something wrong, I am not a pirate.

Edited November 20, 2017 by IndianaGeoff

[Hodo]

Just now, IndianaGeoff said:

Pirates can fight Pirates.  One way to use it is to sail into enemy waters.  Start an outlaw battle.  Don't fight each other and sit in the fight while another national or an alt watches outside the battle.  Once a good target appears, exit the battle, sail up to them and start the fight.

Profit.

You can "sit" in enemy waters unseen until you are ready to attack.  You can start this mechanic any place or any time.  Yes, you can do similar with AI fleets, but you can't control the timing, placement and you have to actually fight until the AI ships are crippled and still wait to exit the fight if you are keeping the combat active.

The same mechanic can be used to escape.  Two pirates exit a battle and quickly fight each other.  If they are far enough away they can sit for up to an hour and a half safely in an outlaw battle while the defense fleet gets bored and leaves.  Again, you can fully control the timing and location unlike AI fights.

Excuse me if I got something wrong, I am not a pirate.

You are wrong.

Outlaw battles stayed open indefinitely.    Which meant, if they started one, anyone could join at any time of the battle.  And because they were free for alls, there was no Friendly Fire rule.  

 

[IndianaGeoff]

Just now, Hodo said:

You are wrong.

Outlaw battles stayed open indefinitely.    Which meant, if they started one, anyone could join at any time of the battle.  And because they were free for alls, there was no Friendly Fire rule.  

 

Was that always the case with outlaw fight?  I seem to remember people popping out and hiding outside Charleston a while back.

[Hodo]

6 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Was that always the case with outlaw fight?  I seem to remember people popping out and hiding outside Charleston a while back.

Always the case. 

Now you can tag an AI ship or an alt in another nation and hide in it for an hour and 45min.  

It is pretty easy to demast an AI trade ship in a couple of passes then just sail out of gun range but keep it in control range. 

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

14 minutes ago, Hodo said:

tag an AI ship (...) and hide  relax away from the pc for a bit in it for an hour and 45min.

This is the "afk" mode since forever if not sitting in port.

[maturin]

2 hours ago, jodgi said:

This will dial back the (imo) excessive downwind rate of turn of the Agamemnon, all good.

________________________________

Aus der reihe:

 

Actually it won't make any difference, or even increase downwind turning. Depending on how it's implemented.

[maturin]

2 hours ago, jodgi said:

Wouldn't that be fantastic!?

I mean, doesn't this offend you?

 

Realistically I'd expect a ship without a mizzen to sail that fine, but maybe not upwind. Likewise, with just a foremast you could sail downwind.

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, Peter Goldman said:

Can someone please explain to me how outlaw battles were used for exploiting? I still don't get it after so many weeks...

Outlaw battles were being used by pirate alts to start outlaw fights with pirate mains in the green zone and then the nationals would all pile in.  King of Crowns in particular was doing this and admitted to it.  See this tribunal.

So instead of punishing the abuses of the mechanics it was deemed easier to just remove them all together.  Frankly the only abuses I saw from pirate mechanics were national players with alts using them to their advantage.  

[Sir Texas Sir]

17 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Was that always the case with outlaw fight?  I seem to remember people popping out and hiding outside Charleston a while back.

Maybe just maybe they tagged an AI or killed some poor smuck that was solo out there.  See this is exactly the problem with this game is folks that have no CLUE try to say what is going on.  It's why we laughed when ya'll bitch about us using them for port battles before the BR Battle groups changed things.  You could join any time you want.  We never left the join area, like ya'll keep saying we did.  If you had the balls to send in a scout you would of found this out.  The British have figured this out and have joined our battles when we used them or was doing other things.  US never had the balls to try.   Maybe fore you speak of things learn them.  Oh and Pirates never was restricted from 1st Rates (other than buying permits and BP) so I don't know what old rules you say we use to have.  Dude really learn the game mechanics before you start judging them.

As for abused of fights I never really say the Pirates Battles abused other than to avoid tags around La Tort by keeping your trade ship in fleet since fleet ships didn't enter FFA battles.  Devs fixed that though so that isn't a problem any more.  I thought it was cheesy myself and was glad when they fixed it.   Now what I do see a problem and it's not fixed is SMUGGLER FLAG.  If a player tags a US buddy with Smuggler flag and they are Brit it makes a Brit vs Pirate Smuggler battle.  Well us Pirates can't pick what side we want to join, we can only join the Pirate Smuggler side.  They would do bad tags so it would be impossible to get them most times and when they escape they would have there invisibility and super speed.  This was and is still being constantly abused by the Nationals.  Way more than any Pirate vs Pirate taggins to avoid fights.  Those battles also close and they are not positional join so you have to turn and go back to a join circle loosing more time and bad battle placement.

To fix this they should make all OW battles that are PvP and not in a safe zone Positional join and bring back the second big join circle.  If your in the big circle and some one is tagged you get the option to join at that spot if you wish.  Though only the folks that are in that circle get the position join option.  Any one out side the big circle has to join the old fasion way up to the 2.5. min timer.  

This will also stop the putting join circles in land to prevent others from joining.

[admin]

topic locked due to new patch

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, admin said:

topic locked due to new patch

*whispers* It's not locked......lol  sorry just had to.  Interesting new patch though should be fun to test out.