Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 Just now, Peter Goldman said: The idea behind it so the main sails catch more wind force to increase turn rate. It causes slight speed loss but should help with turning speed. I know... but vile and I made the same tack in the same time without depowering. Doesn't seem to affect anything to depower. Was more an FYI in case folks wanted I skip a step.
shaeberle84 Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 12 hours ago, admin said: to everyone Individual sails are awesome but hard to control in a multiplayer game (they will work great in a single player game though where everything can be slower) It would be enough to be able to just set staysails OR square sails. 2
z4ys Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Malachy said: Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering. 3 hours ago, Peter Goldman said: The idea behind it so the main sails catch more wind force to increase turn rate. It causes slight speed loss but should help with turning speed. Yep i noticed that depowering makes the turn radius smaller. Especially when you want to turn into the wind direction (180° to 90°). You suffer speed thats right but it improves turnrate a lot. I dont claim my tack as perfect but at least it was done without reverse distance and I hope i can help some fellow captains who struggle to tack because of the new force model. 3
la Touche-Treville Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) I think this whole thing might need some tuning over time. However I presently see the following Pros and Cons: - PROS Though NA isn't supposed to be a sail simulator strictly speaking, adding more realism to ship sailing patterns makes the experience more immersive. Now in a PB, you better bring some ships with Latin sails to go cap or hunt down the mortar brigs sitting way out. Could be cool to see separate fights occurring in different areas of the battle instance where ships of same sail types regroup. Square sails will no longer have the same radius of action as they have today. Weather gauge will become all the more important. -CONS In OW, this new change really cripples all square sails from getting anywhere unless the destination is downwind and not far out. With wind turning in a clockwise direction on a preset schedule, you know that you're going nowhere for many many minutes at some stage! In OW, even with the time acceleration, moving ships is going to be incredibly painful. Here's where realism hinders the enjoyable aspect of the game. What I'd like to see: Variable wind directions that don't obey a mechanical rule but would be like a couple hours of wind coming from a set direction and variable wind force that further effects ships by size. Probably too complicated but no harm asking Edited November 17, 2017 by la Touche-Treville 4
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, rediii said: hello im new. Can someone tell me where is the difference? It was like that before aswell wasnt it? Against the wind and on 90" not as much but yea ... In the video they depowered to Lower turn radius. You can do the same without depowering was all I was saying. Just have to adjust your sails at the right time. You lose the same amount of speed either way and neither starts a reverse. Edited November 17, 2017 by Malachy
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, rediii said: I just dont know whats the difference at all to the system we had before? More wind in the sails and you are slower upwind? Because you were able to slow down turning your sails against the wind and depower without the new aga too. From what I see (didnt test yet) its the same like before just with more wind? (I also have no idea of real sailing) Basically the new Agamemnon handles more like a real ship. Tacking through the wind is detrimental to speed more so than before. Also it sails backwards if you point your sails right (or wrong) now. Sailing at any point under 90 you may as well not, even on the os. However down wind, it handles like a dream. Combat is going to be a lot different if they move all ships tomthisnsort of model. Basically turning endlessly isn't going to work. People are going to have to work with the wind not against it. Edited November 17, 2017 by Malachy 5
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, z4ys said: Yep i noticed that depowering makes the turn radius smaller. Especially when you want to turn into the wind direction (180° to 90°). You suffer speed thats right but it improves turnrate a lot. I dont claim my tack as perfect but at least it was done without reverse distance and I hope i can help some fellow captains who struggle to tack because of the new force model. The way vile and I did it requires some precise sail and rudder control. I wasn't saying either way was better, just letting folks know it's could be done either way.
maturin Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Malachy said: Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering. I know it's not necessary. But it's a large advantage. The tack goes much faster. Doing it the historical way, it takes nearly a minute just to get your nose in the wind, with -0.5 kts of speed.
Teutonic Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 After some tests, it's going to be some time before I get the hang of the new "wind and sails" in battle. I do like it, but I think the reality of the OW speeds is not good. I know a number of people, including myself, complain about the time it takes to sail places, even more so when you're sailing against the wind. I really do wish OW travel would not be so negatively affected they way it is on the aggie right now. 2
Hodo Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 I think OW speeds should not be as effected by the wind as they are. Or have regional wind directions. Like along the US East coast wind should predominantly travel south to north. Or ideally like the wind in this VERY old MMO.
Jesters-Ink Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 New sailing profile more realistic, but how many more players will drop the game because of it, I dunno. I'll stick around, to see where the journey ends.
Vile Executioner Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 if the way the new Agamemnon handles is a taste of the other ships sailing profiles then I love it. Fighting for wind advantage in combat is extremely useful and would be even more so a necessity with this setup. If you own the wind you own the sea. Though, I would like to see how people would react to the change of how port battles fought. But in my opinion, this is a great change. I would like to see how this will effect certain 5th rates aswell as the 6th rates. 4
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, maturin said: I know it's not necessary. But it's a large advantage. The tack goes much faster. Doing it the historical way, it takes nearly a minute just to get your nose in the wind, with -0.5 kts of speed. You don't need to depower to achieve the same results. Message me in game tonight and I'll show you how.
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Hodo said: I think OW speeds should not be as effected by the wind as they are. Or have regional wind directions. Like along the US East coast wind should predominantly travel south to north. Or ideally like the wind in this VERY old MMO. I agree with this.
Quineloe Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Malachy said: I know... but vile and I made the same tack in the same time without depowering. Doesn't seem to affect anything to depower. Was more an FYI in case folks wanted I skip a step. But you're bleeding speed hard if you depower, so since you're slower with depower but still turn as fast, doesn't that mean that depowering increases the turn rate from the square sails?
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Quineloe said: But you're bleeding speed hard if you depower, so since you're slower with depower but still turn as fast, doesn't that mean that depowering increases the turn rate from the square sails? Doesn't seem to. Tried both ways, neither turn seemed to be any tighter. It's possible that you are bleeding speed so fast anyhow that you can't bleed it any faster by depowering. I will say this though, you don't want to turn through the wind if any enemy is close. Instant rage board lol. On another note, we also noticed that main sail force mods did not affect turning with the new profile. The Agamemnon running full force turned exactly the same as the one that was force free. Have not tested with staysail force yet. Edited November 17, 2017 by Malachy
Quineloe Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Vile Executioner said: if the way the new Agamemnon handles is a taste of the other ships sailing profiles then I love it. Fighting for wind advantage in combat is extremely useful and would be even more so a necessity with this setup. If you own the wind you own the sea. Though, I would like to see how people would react to the change of how port battles fought. But in my opinion, this is a great change. I would like to see how this will effect certain 5th rates aswell as the 6th rates. What exactly is it that the new wind allows that it didn't before? And I don't mean reversing at beam reach.
Slim McSauce Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Quineloe said: What exactly is it that the new wind allows that it didn't before? And I don't mean reversing at beam reach. Not much "new", it just feels more right like how a ship should handle. It's more dynamic, when with the wind it actually feels like you're throwing the wheel around with less resistance, like you could almost tip the ship over because you can turn so hard. The peak performance of the ship is much improved , while against the wind you're fighting a lot harder. Its night and day difference, comparable to the damage model upgrade, this new sailing system is just fantastic. Edited November 17, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: Not much "new", it just feels more right like how a ship should handle. It's more dynamic, when with the wind it actually feels like you're throwing the wheel around with less resistance, like you could almost tip the ship over because you can turn so hard. The peak performance of the ship is much improved , while against the wind you're fighting a lot harder. Its night and day difference, comparable to the damage model upgrade, this new sailing system is just fantastic. 1
Hodo Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Malachy said: And kids this is how an Indefatigable is made. 6
Vile Executioner Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Quineloe said: What exactly is it that the new wind allows that it didn't before? And I don't mean reversing at beam reach. It’s not about what it does now that it “benifits” from its about what it can’t do. Soon all ships will be adjusted just like this one(with their own profile ofcourse). Having the wind on your side will allow you to now control the battle. When your in an aggy and another ship is up wind of you, you can not get to him, therefore the enemy ship will dictate what you can and can’t do in battle. Same goes the other way, if I’m upwind of you, I can control what happens next. If a ship is better than you against the wind, he will be able to control the fight, but it is up to you to keep control. “If you control the wind, you control the sea” This is how you are supposed to fight in ships. It’s not about guns, it’s about killing your foe using superior advantages against his disadvantages.
Malachy Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said: It’s not about what it does now that it “benifits” from its about what it can’t do. Soon all ships will be adjusted just like this one(with their own profile ofcourse). Having the wind on your side will allow you to now control the battle. When your in an aggy and another ship is up wind of you, you can not get to him, therefore the enemy ship will dictate what you can and can’t do in battle. Same goes the other way, if I’m upwind of you, I can control what happens next. If a ship is better than you against the wind, he will be able to control the fight, but it is up to you to keep control. “If you control the wind, you control the sea” This is how you are supposed to fight in ships. It’s not about guns, it’s about killing your foe using superior advantages against his disadvantages. Guns can be a huge equalizer when some little pissant grabs the wind tho
Recommended Posts