Poll on limited use of repairs in battles

[Quineloe]

Just now, neogiuliani said:

For me:

2 repairs kits, for use as you want in the battle  (sails or hull)

1 repair crew kit. (this kit repair the 60% or 70% crew)

That means you could grape a Santi down to 50 crew and then he heals up to 700 as you board him. Makes it impossible to capture a Santi with any ship other than at least a second rate

[Riparian]

Could we do repairs without single or multiple use "healing potions"?

There was already a proposal to make repairs more continuous process.

You would assign men to repairs the same way as to other activities (loading, sailing...). This activity repairs hull and rigging slowly if you have men assigned and repairs left. Little hull damage would need only few men, but if you have lots of damage and "critical hits" (pump, leaks or missing mast) you might need to use most of you crew to repair then reasonably fast. And during repairs the crew is very vulnerable to damage (like boarding or even more).

[Morgane Drake]

i'm for dont change the repair system 

having a lot in ship or not must be a choice and/or a strategy ; focus repairing with or without module etc 

 

if you are in 1 VS 2 the repairs can save you or give you a kill, or more if goodly played,  but i agree for gankers thats not fun , if the guy repair, you loose time....and maybe a ship// sade gankers life 

and the system of 2 repair... 3 gankers have 2 repair = 6 repair in team possibilit to dodge fight for the mostly damaged etc  vs one guy with 2 repair ? for me thats a no no 

 

in 1V1 thats can make very fun fights but long i agree , but the guys with a  lot of repair take the choice to loose speed etc 

 

but maybe add a feature, = repair only armor or sail and no structure and mast  in exemple ,

with time the structure finish at 0 and a mast destroyed stay destroyed 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Morgane Drake

[neogiuliani]

15 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

That means you could grape a Santi down to 50 crew and then he heals up to 700 as you board him. Makes it impossible to capture a Santi with any ship other than at least a second rate

ok, the use of repair crew kit in the boarding is not allowed

[VCNT de Velasco]

22 hours ago, Intrepido said:

A joke is losing 230 guys in a first rate with the rake of a surprise.

Totally agree.

It is completely absurd the level of damage that a simple frigate can currently cause by taking a first class vessel through the stern. It's ridiculous.

At the Battle of Trafalgar, the Santísima Trinidad (with a crew of 1,048 men) suffered 205 casualties and 108 wounded, after struggling for hours with half a dozen ships.

In N.A., a simple Surprise can kill 80% of the crew of a line ship doing a couple of volleys.

I said: it's totally ridiculous.

Edited November 2, 2017 by VCNT de Velasco

[Hodo]

53 minutes ago, VCNT de Velasco said:

Totally agree.

It is completely absurd the level of damage that a simple frigate can currently cause by taking a first class vessel through the stern. It's ridiculous.

At the Battle of Trafalgar, the Santísima Trinidad (with a crew of 1,048 men) suffered 205 casualties and 108 wounded, after struggling for hours with half a dozen ships.

In N.A., a simple Surprise can kill 80% of the crew of a line ship doing a couple of volleys.

I said: it's totally ridiculous.

On the other side of that coin...

If a 1st rate like the Santi fired a broadside at a Surprise in real life, the surprise would be drift wood after the first salvo.  

In game now, the Surprise can take the hit sail off, magically replace all of the damaged sections and come back and fight as if it had never been shot at all.

[Thonys]

voted no ,but

i do believe it is not the repairs what is the biggest issue 

but more the chain shot is an issue

1-time sail repair and 3 times hull is fair enough 

the chain should be limited  to a max into the hold 

just like double shot and charge 

make it  (limited chain) a perk

 

this poll is probably not the greatest choice to make and address the issue of the repairs, ist more balance between chain and repairs what gives trouble

Edited November 2, 2017 by Thonys

[Cmdr RideZ]

5 hours ago, Morgane Drake said:

if you are in 1 VS 2 the repairs can save you or give you a kill, or more if goodly played,  but i agree for gankers thats not fun , if the guy repair, you loose time....and maybe a ship// sade gankers life 

and the system of 2 repair... 3 gankers have 2 repair = 6 repair in team possibilit to dodge fight for the mostly damaged etc  vs one guy with 2 repair ? for me thats a no no 

This is probably a common misunderstanding.

You look this battle from perspective of this one guy and you already assume that he lost the fight.  It was not that uncommon that 1 guy won 2 in Naval Action.  Even without abusing mast meta.

If you start to think how this one guy could win this 1vs2, you will notice that the ability to repair all the time is actually making it harder.  If this one guy is able to get one of the enemies in a bad shape, the wrecked one can start playing time while repairing.  At the same time let his friend take responsibility from the battle.

Creating advantage to win 1vs2 needs more skill than knowing when and which repair kit to use.  All skill and advantage this one guy is able to create is "skillfully" countered with 2nd dimension healing potions.

[Forbin]

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Do you use hold optimization perk? Give it a try.

If you use Hold optimisation, you have to NOT use other perks. That's balancing

Each on is own...

[Farrago]

THIS would be a totally different way at looking at repairs but I know that many have advocated for more flexible or dynamic ways to assign crew than just On and Off.

What if there was an additional crew assignment “Repairs” or it could just be a function or replace the Survival button. We’d have to experiment with percentages and the speed each crew does but wouldn’t it be cool if you could devote more and more men to Damage Control but it would be at the expense of everything else?

[George Washington]

7 hours ago, neogiuliani said:

For me:

2 repairs kits, for use as you want in the battle  (sails or hull)

1 repair crew kit. (this kit repair the 60% or 70% crew)

How will it help you if I start to kite you in a more maneuverable ship, with faster sails up/down mod , sail structure etc... You are going down with 2 reps and nothing will save you. This is due to my damage output and sail defense, speed is higher vs yours. I can go into battle sail faster and maneuver away faster , so your shots will miss and do less damage to my sails. Now you take forever to do the same and I make double damage to your sails, all whats left is time and you are dead. Do you like it? please vote Yes. 2 reps, 4 reps, 6 reps.. makes no difference... it will take longer , but my numbers always higher and you will loose after 1 - 2 hours in battle. 

Question is, will you go back to pvp knowing I just exhausted you from all your reps and now you are an easy prey. You will be watching your sails fall 1st, then your stern and crew and then you will die after 1-2 hours in battle trying to survive. 

That is what limited repairs bring. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by George Washington

[Voronius]

1. Provided  the change doesn't affect the pve server, i don't care.

2.If you intend the change to affect the pve server then make 2 polls and every forum member should only vote in one of them

cause what you're doing here is deciding upon the pve gameplay on the pve sever with your hardcore pvp player. That's unfair.

Better close the pve server completely and sell your game as very pvp oriented. Some ppl got the game to play something like Sid Meiers Pirates or like AOP

(where you can also boast about your bravery and loot on a global chat ) and it's not the 1st time when you don't care about those ppl.

A lot of "balance" fixes to ships came from a pvp only perspective. Realy if you want bigger reach on the market with your game you should start

caring about both servers, not try to cheat your way with almost the same server under 2 names.

3. For pve i find the current system to be ok. There's the timer and hull repairs are expensive like hell especially for new players (0-4 weeks).

Edited November 2, 2017 by Voronius

[Morgane Drake]

5 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

This is probably a common misunderstanding.

You look this battle from perspective of this one guy and you already assume that he lost the fight.  It was not that uncommon that 1 guy won 2 in Naval Action.  Even without abusing mast meta.

If you start to think how this one guy could win this 1vs2, you will notice that the ability to repair all the time is actually making it harder.  If this one guy is able to get one of the enemies in a bad shape, the wrecked one can start playing time while repairing.  At the same time let his friend take responsibility from the battle.

Creating advantage to win 1vs2 needs more skill than knowing when and which repair kit to use.  All skill and advantage this one guy is able to create is "skillfully" countered with 2nd dimension healing potions.

totaly agree you for thats but i dont have answered for 1 V2 Advantage ( sorry i thing thats the language problem to perfectly explain what i thing )

but for the possibility of carry and use the repair stay a choice, not an obligation, same of world of warship = 1 or 2 repair and an emerengy kit 

for the skills, knowing using Wind for avoid damages , use repair comeback to fight etc its skill too and if the opponement has take choice for carry one or two repair he has take choice for thats too, 

my answer for have only 2 repair its no because i like having the choice and  possibility, but i agree a lot of time its impossible using all  the repairs before the fight end  

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Morgane Drake

[Jef]

Voted NO, you are limited by the amount you bring... so this is a mute point

[Christendom]

The new repair meta / speed cap has basically killed the role of smaller frigates in PVP.  At 14knt Wasa with unlimited repairs makes for very uninteresting PVP.  

Bring back the old system.  1 Hull / 1 Rig.  There used to be strategy in working down an opponents sails or hull or when to pop repairs.  Taking down a mast used to be a knockout punch.  Not to mention it's incredibly unrealistic.  I'm pretty sure Nelson wasn't repairing masts in the middle of Trafalgar........

[z4ys]

An other idea:

After first repair 18min cd.

After 2nd repair  28 cd.

After 3nd reapair 38cd

[Corona Lisa]

15 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The new repair meta / speed cap has basically killed the role of smaller frigates in PVP.  At 14knt Wasa with unlimited repairs makes for very uninteresting PVP.  

Bring back the old system.  1 Hull / 1 Rig.  There used to be strategy in working down an opponents sails or hull or when to pop repairs.  Taking down a mast used to be a knockout punch.  Not to mention it's incredibly unrealistic.  I'm pretty sure Nelson wasn't repairing masts in the middle of Trafalgar........

Thats mah boi

[Aster]

If repairs do get limited I would like to see repair mods maybe increase the cap by 1 or so per mod.

[Morgane Drake]

43 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The % loss of speed with lots of repairs is ridiculous compared with the advantages of being able to repair so many times in one battle.

a random Trincomalee in my docks ; hull repaire 8 //  rig 10 // rum 81 

 

empty = 14 kn  //   16 hullrepair = 13.94  // 38 hull repeair = 13.88 // 64 = 13.75  

add rig repair in  = 20 = 13.67 //    40 = 13.60

add rum in = 162  = 13.56  //   224 = 13.53

 

start at 14 kn finish at 13.53 kn , total speed loose  = 0.47 kn

 

and in repair crews are used = loss speed , turn rate , reload etc 

[Blackjack Morgan]

My theory is they introduced multiple repairs as nothing more than an economy tweak. A way to help spur the production and consumption of raw materials into finished goods needed in combat. The game had been around and tested for years with minimal repair kits.....nobody was asking or complaining about the repair kit situation. This was another classic move by the developers trying to "fix" something that never was viewed as an issue needing to be addressed. It's just one of many terrible decisions they made on their own initiative to "improve" the game. 90% of these changes have been utter disasters. It is a mix of humor and sadness watching alot of these changes being debated now. Old testers had already warned about most of this stuff being a bad idea....because a lot of it had been tested.....but they went ahead and did it anyways. They had a great combat system for a few years.....then decided to introduce a bunch of crap nobody was asking for....and now you have this....a crap product. Just admit the mistakes and go back to what you had when you know you had really good reviews and people loved your game. 

[VCNT de Velasco]

4 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

My theory is they introduced multiple repairs as nothing more than an economy tweak. A way to help spur the production and consumption of raw materials into finished goods needed in combat. The game had been around and tested for years with minimal repair kits.....nobody was asking or complaining about the repair kit situation. This was another classic move by the developers trying to "fix" something that never was viewed as an issue needing to be addressed. It's just one of many terrible decisions they made on their own initiative to "improve" the game. 90% of these changes have been utter disasters. It is a mix of humor and sadness watching alot of these changes being debated now. Old testers had already warned about most of this stuff being a bad idea....because a lot of it had been tested.....but they went ahead and did it anyways. They had a great combat system for a few years.....then decided to introduce a bunch of crap nobody was asking for....and now you have this....a crap product. Just admit the mistakes and go back to what you had when you know you had really good reviews and people loved your game. 

 

Absolutely agree with BlackJack. Okay, this game is in the "alpha" phase and, as such, you have to try new things. But if nobody asked them to change the reparations system it is because the community did not think it necessary. The dysfunctions created by this system are multiple and have been successfully exposed by many people in this thread of the forum, so I will not insist on it.

The impression that I have, to see the lurches that the developers give, testing first a system and then the opposite, is that they are not clear about their final objective. And this is, in my opinion, a serious problem.

The first thing you should be clear about is where you want to go. Do you want to make a game of arcade ships, or do you want to do something similar to an 18th century naval simulator?

If you want an arcade game, then you are on the right track. Unlimited repairs, magic cards, absurd speeds, unreal damages, etc. But in this case, Naval Action will only be one more game of the many that already exist of this type.

But if you want to make a game that, without losing the gameplay, try to reproduce the golden age of sailing, then go the wrong way.

My advice would be that, when they have to consider what to do with some aspect of the game (for example, the repairs being addressed in this topic) stop a moment to think and ask themselves what was it like at that time ?. That is: e.g. Is it credible that, in the middle of battle, half the crew abandoned their weapons to repair a mast, or change all the sails, or that the surgeon (when he was) could resuscitate hundreds of wounded sailors, or that a boat have enough materials in her warehouse to rebuild the ship completely? And in another order of things, is it believable that a small frigate (like the Surprise) could survive an accurate broadside of a 1-2-3 class in a conditions to continue fighting?

So, if the answer is no, it is better to stop and do not add something or change something that goes in the opposite direction of the objective pursued.

First you have to draw a well-defined plan, and then put the means to get it. The opposite is "sticking blind" to end nowhere.

A greeting.

Edited November 3, 2017 by VCNT de Velasco

[Hodo]

Here is a tale of my Renomee last night and sail repairs.

I jumped a lone Frigate captained by a newer captain.  I figured easy kill, he was sitting there sails down, and made no attempt to avoid me.   I jumped him, fired a few chain broadsides into his sails, brought him down to 80%.  And began to work his stern.  As I was moving to get my first rake into his stern 3 other frigates jumped into the fight.   I realized I had fallen in a trap.  

I came under fire from a Herminie, and a Cerberus.   The Indefatigable and the Frigate I had been fighting were out of position to fire on me.   I set my direction to my best point of sail and fired chain into the Herm, as I went by.   They worked my sails down to 90%, I popped my sail repair to put distance between us.   The chase lasted about 30min till I was far enough away that his bow chasers couldnt hit me accurately anymore.   

If I had 1 sail repair and 1 hull repair, the fight would have went the same way for me.   But had they had a faster ship in the fight, it would have been different.  My combat load for the Reno, is 4 complete sail repairs, and 4 extra individual for OW touchups.   And I have 3 complete hull repairs and 2 complete rum runs.

[George Washington]

6 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Here is a tale of my Renomee last night and sail repairs.

I jumped a lone Frigate captained by a newer captain.  I figured easy kill, he was sitting there sails down, and made no attempt to avoid me.   I jumped him, fired a few chain broadsides into his sails, brought him down to 80%.  And began to work his stern.  As I was moving to get my first rake into his stern 3 other frigates jumped into the fight.   I realized I had fallen in a trap.  

I came under fire from a Herminie, and a Cerberus.   The Indefatigable and the Frigate I had been fighting were out of position to fire on me.   I set my direction to my best point of sail and fired chain into the Herm, as I went by.   They worked my sails down to 90%, I popped my sail repair to put distance between us.   The chase lasted about 30min till I was far enough away that his bow chasers couldnt hit me accurately anymore.   

If I had 1 sail repair and 1 hull repair, the fight would have went the same way for me.   But had they had a faster ship in the fight, it would have been different.  My combat load for the Reno, is 4 complete sail repairs, and 4 extra individual for OW touchups.   And I have 3 complete hull repairs and 2 complete rum runs.

1 repair / 1 sail repair is suicide. 

[Gregory Rainsborough]

I for one see this as not much of a problem. It's rare anyone gets a broadside off on me and certainly not enough to fully hinder. Just imagine the fun I could have with my enemies unable to repair their sails?!

[Hodo]

50 minutes ago, George Washington said:

1 repair / 1 sail repair is suicide. 

I  rarely use more than 1 repair of either type in any PVP encounter.  Maybe because I am really picky on my targets, or I dont like taking damage.