Reinforcment Zones - Yay or Nay?

[TommyShelby]

12 minutes ago, Robert said:

Just so I understand, let's summarize, so you are a tester that have left the  once great PvP game a while ago and just came back to forums to criticize the latest patch?

I will continue to follow the development of NA, you know, in case a patch comes out that might make me want to come back? 

It sounds me like you are trying to tell me that your opinion is more important than mine? Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

[Archaos]

 

4 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Keep them but the attacker needs to know they are in it to... 2 of us hit a trader we spotted FAR south of Front Royal a couple nights ago,,.. on both our screens it said we were in the County south of Front Royal.. but as soon as the battle started.. Poof 4 1st Rates appeared.... When we left battle it still said were were NOT in Front Royal

With the safe zones around nation capitals there is no need for the green zone anymore, they should just make the whole safe zone a green zone that shows on all players screens.

[Pada]

3 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

There is reinforcement zones in NA again? 

lol

No worries Tommy, I'll share my NA Legends code with you. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

Are you saying that neutral/capturable ports are in the reinforcement zones?

Road Town/Spanish Town/The Settlement

Oranjestad/Fort Baal/Marigot/ Philipsburg

We found out the first day St Mary's is in the US safe zone as one of our guys lost a Connie tagging a trader there.  

2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I said to reduce the zone's range - but I feel it's largely fine.

But I think what we need are more (and bigger/better) incentives to leave the safe zone. the ports players can capture definitely need more boosts.

There should be no special resources in a safe zone (Spainish has one of the gunpowedrs in one.)  You should get the basic crafting stuff only.  If you want anything else you need to venture out and it's nice now you can boost production of ports owned so they produce more than safe zones ports.  I don't know why they put so much resources in those zones.  When you bring up coal I hear folks say, "Why should I got to Sant Iago when Ocean Brite produces it."  They would prefer to pay the tax's to the port than get it basically free from the clan (cause tax's goes back into clan coffer).  Even with the boosted production and labor cost reduction folks are not wanting to move cause it's safer to just produce them slowly in the safe zone.

[Robert]

32 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I will continue to follow the development of NA, you know, in case a patch comes out that might make me want to come back? 

It sounds me like you are trying to tell me that your opinion is more important than mine? Is that correct or am i reading it wrong?

There is nothing wrong with following.

Regarding the importance of my opinion on the latest patch, yes, it is more important. I am currently playing the game. You are not. 

[Barbancourt]

5 hours ago, Liq said:

The current implemention fully fulfills its function by stopping ganks onto newbs and gives them a place to recover and level up, but at the same times also kills off most of the "good" PvP.

 

"Ganks" and capital camping is not "good PvP".  I haven't had occasion to use reinforcements, myself. 

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Keep them but the attacker needs to know they are in it to... 2 of us hit a trader we spotted FAR south of Front Royal a couple nights ago,,.. on both our screens it said we were in the County south of Front Royal.. but as soon as the battle started.. Poof 4 1st Rates appeared.... When we left battle it still said were were NOT in Front Royal

It's pretty huge.  I was a couple of Neutral ports beyond my national zone yesterday and was puzzled to see that the game still said "reinforcement available". 

[TommyShelby]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

There is nothing wrong with following.

Regarding the importance of my opinion on the latest patch, yes, it is more important. I am currently playing the game. You are not. 

lol

[Apina]

15 hours ago, rediii said:

- too big

- no incentives to leave safezone

I think that's the things that are wrong. Give players nice incentives to leave safezone and make it smaller (too big for sweden and denmark)

from a player (me) that got sank recently, but points still seem valid

Edited September 22, 2017 by Apina

[CaptVonGunn]

3 hours ago, Archaos said:

 

With the safe zones around nation capitals there is no need for the green zone anymore, they should just make the whole safe zone a green zone that shows on all players screens.

true... Hell I would be ok with just a set distance out from each capital instead of the random shape

[CaptVonGunn]

2 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It's pretty huge.  I was a couple of Neutral ports beyond my national zone yesterday and was puzzled to see that the game still said "reinforcement available". 

Yeah which is why I think a set distance in Km from each Capital would make more sense..Big enough to allow for the reduction of baby seal clubing...But I am trying to use logic and history tells me logic and game programming in general seldom get along..:)

Edited September 22, 2017 by CaptVonGunn

[CaptVonGunn]

4 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

 

So trading profits need to be upped aswell

Huh? I do now and then trading maybe spend an hour a game session and make between 300k and 1.5mil profit in that time...

[Skully]

I can understand reinforcements in the 3 puppy zones on the west side.

All the other ones are just bogus.

[Guest]

As bad as it was to have most PvP being PvPers having to hunt PvErs and traders (because of combat mechanics and the ROE making it virtually impossible for players to defend their homewaters or engage roamers - aka PvPers fighting other PvPers), this is even worse by taking that away as well.

At the moment I can just trot around as a solo slowboat 1st rate and run missions (even fleet missions where any player jumping in would be problematic) with absolutely zero risk, and with zero incentive to go anywhere or do anything differently. Same for crafting, 90% of the resources you need are in easy reach and with protection zones all the way to the destination to make trade runs virtually risk-free. And that's as a "very hard" nation with minimal uncapturable port coverage.

Feels like playing on the goddamn PvE server.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Guest

[Bartholomew.E.Dogg]

I've only called for reinforcements on one occasion so far, what I got was 6 1st rates + 1 5th spawn right alongside me  -  way over the top. If that is typical then reinforcment fleets need to be reduced.

[NethrosDefectus]

16 hours ago, rediii said:

- too big

- no incentives to leave safezone

I think that's the things that are wrong. Give players nice incentives to leave safezone and make it smaller (too big for sweden and denmark)

The incentive to leave the safezone will be boredom, and to be fair if someone is in there doing a mission it is usually because they are not interested in a pvp fight at that time

[admin]

I think reinforcement zone is a little bigger than needed. We will see if we get the expected result out of it over this and next week. But will adjust its size making it 10-15% smaller. 

The expected result is: Players can always fall back to rebuild in the safe zone, and will venture out to RVR and pvp more when they think they are ready. The main number we are looking at is retention and steady growth of happiness for the average player who, knowing that he has a safe base to fall back to will be willing to try to pvp more often. 

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

and please mark them on the map so we have an idea of their size. Maybe as special filter that can be turned off/on.

yes we will add this in the next 1-2 patches.

[ltdan83]

I think the zones should be the same as they are now.  I think Devs should make a new kind of mission.  Reduce the gold amount on missions close to shore and add a new mission out of the reinforcement zone and make that award the gold we have in missions now.  If you want to make gold of missions you have to risk something.

[Robert]

You hit the nail on the head right there, the choice need to be there. For example if somebody has only an hour to play and doesn't have time or simply not in the mood for PvP at that time or new players, casuals or trying to recover they need to have the option to do something else. That's what the reinforcements zones do. 

The players looking for PvP will venture out and/or not call for reinforcements as in the end it is just an option.

Keep in mind it's just a game and there are people behind each character so maybe if you are a good sport you will also have more PvP.

Anyone that says force them out, remove or reduce the zones they just ask for baby seal clubbing and call it "the good hunt" or the "good PvP". It's pretty lame really. 

I recommend you this guide for more that one reason, not only on the how to hunt properly but most importantly the attitude and character behind it. There is still hope if you do get it.

This guy gets it.

14 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 

"Ganks" and capital camping is not "good PvP".  I haven't had occasion to use reinforcements, myself. 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Robert

[TommyShelby]

4 hours ago, Borch said:

Tommy, I respect you a lot really but this post shows that either you are unable to see bigger picture or you just dont care about bigger picture of the game. 

I will correct the last sentence of yours.

Before this patch majority of players we had in NA were RVR players simply because it was the only decent content provided in NA. Now we see some players returning (solo, groups, small clans). Isn't that what you are looking for (ofc still needs some changes to work properly) ?

Every PvP'er i've talked to since the last patch is telling me to not come back. And here i am talking about PvP'ers that enjoy OW PvP and those that do not run away from an even fight.  

Them telling me that the game is only getting worse for our type of playstyle is absolutely not what i am looking for. 

What is sad here is, all along i have tried to advocate for the fact that there all playstyles should be viable. The Solo player, The small groups, the mid size groups, the large groups, the traders, the crafters. There should be room for all of them, i've made tons of suggestions on how to make this work but the developers have chosen a different route.
A route which alienate the solo players and small groups. 

In my opinion that is wrong. 
 

[Anolytic]

1 hour ago, admin said:

I think reinforcement zone is a little bigger than needed. We will see if we get the expected result out of it over this and next week. But will adjust its size making it 10-15% smaller. 

Reducing the safe zone by 10-15% means that all important ports in Danmark will be outside the reinforcement zone. Which is good. However all important ports in Sweden will still be well within the reinforcement zone. So you are not really changing anything for anyone except making it so Danish average players/pubbies will resume whining in nation chat about getting ganked in "home waters".

Btw, are you reducing the area by 10-15% or the radius by 10-15%?

[Kloothommel]

40 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Reducing the safe zone by 10-15% means that all important ports in Danmark will be outside the reinforcement zone. Which is good. However all important ports in Sweden will still be well within the reinforcement zone.

But we have always known that Sweden is easy mode and Denmark-Norge is hard-core!

[CatSwift]

The one time I've experience reinforcement fleets is I tagged a merchant player (Indiaman + Indiaman in fleet) on the very edge of the circle outside Christiansted.  Got in, press button, and there were instantly 5 first rates right there to protect him so I fled.  This wasn't a case of "seal clubbing" or even "mission jumping", which is what this feature is meant to prevent.

What I would like to see change is that the reinforcement fleet spawn near the closest friendly port in the battle instance. This would be more realistic (as this would be the harbor/defensive fleet), and it also takes care of the reinforcement circle size; it can still be large, but since it will take time for the reinforcement fleet to get to you it should compensate for it.  Then they become a sort of time delayed port fort, one which will meet you half way if you sail towards it for protection.

Edited September 22, 2017 by CatSwift

[Justme]

21 hours ago, Liq said:

oh whops sorry. Could a mod possibly move the thread?

No worries, it's happened to a few of us several times.