Chickamauga Victory Conditions not working properly

[Thiem]

The title, basically.

I just finished playing through Chickamauga as the Union only to find out that finishing the second phase with only one of the Confederate objectives captured forces a draw. Taking none proceeds you to the next day where you could easily win and taking both wins outright, so this seems a little unbalanced. The "reward" for a draw at Chickamauga is a quite underwhelming after all.

 

[Guest]

Actually the are.. One critical objective is not met and therefore you can't get either a win or a draw..

[Thiem]

I did get a draw though. That's my point. 

A draw is achieved by holding LaFayette Road and one of:

Horseshoe Ridge

Brotherton Road

Jay's Mill

 

Therefore, if you attack on that second day taking only Jay's Mill you get a draw.

 

If that is working as intended I would like for someone to explain that intention to me.

[maniacalpenny]

I honestly didn't even know there was a second day to Chickamauga.

If there is a similar bug to this on the Confederate side, this would explain why a Confederate commander isn't getting all of the elements of his 2nd Corps (Despite the game telling you "Longstreets Corps" is about to arrive, the battle ends before those units arrive).

I also had an issue in one of the final Union campaign missions where half of the units of my 2nd Corps assigned never arrived.

[Thiem]

Chickamauga has 3 days for the Union. On the first you only fight the skirmish at the bridges, on the second you get to counterattack before Longstreet is on the field and on the third the Confederates attack you in force. Longstreet arrives "overnight" though, so you won't see him if you win on the second day.

 

[maniacalpenny]

3 hours ago, Thiem said:

Chickamauga has 3 days for the Union. On the first you only fight the skirmish at the bridges, on the second you get to counterattack before Longstreet is on the field and on the third the Confederates attack you in force. Longstreet arrives "overnight" though, so you won't see him if you win on the second day.

 

Oh right, I forgot about the first day entirely.

So yeah, there is also a problem with the Confederacy where you cannot get to the 3rd day if you own certain objectives, you will get a draw or even a loss(?) if you own some of the Union camps (I think I owned all VPs except the top one and the battle ended on the 2nd day)

[Captain Orso]

The Battle of Chickamauga went from 18 to 20 Oct. 1863. The first day were the small battles for the bridges, the same as the first day in the game. The second day is also like in the game. But in the game there seems to be no way to get to day 3, at least as the Union player.

At the end of the second day:

If you hold all the VP's on the LaFayette Road plus both the Brotherton Road and Jay's Mill, you win and the battle is over.

If you hold all the VP's on the LaFayette Road plus EITHER the Brotherton Road OR Jay's Mill, you get a draw and the battle is over.

If at the end of the second day you do not have control over ALL of the VP's on the LaFayette Road, even if you hold both the Brotherton Road and Jay's Mill, you lose the battle and the battle is over.

The Horseshoe Ridge VP never opens at any time, although it is listed in the Victory Conditions, so you can never control it, unless maybe if you lose both Brotherton Road and Jay's Mill, after having captured both, but that's never happened to me.

[quicksabre]

If you hold ALL of the VP's on the LaFayette road plus NEITHER of Brotherton Road or Jay's Mill, you get to proceed to the third day. The third day is butchery plain and simple. Especially for the confederates but also for my army - gotta love that 10-hour battle timer!

[Captain Orso]

Hmmm..... I may have to go back to this battle and pull back from Jay's Mill and Brotherton Road to have a third day for slaughtering Rebs 

After winning on the second day and having taken about 13,500 to their 40,000, it sound like a proposition 

[quicksabre]

My ratio on BG the first time I played it was around 20k losses and 60-70k kills. Second time I only lost ~ 15k, so yeah!  Good kill ratios

[Captain Orso]

I'm a slow old man for RTS games. I'm always trying to keep up with getting my cavalry to chase down enemy cavalry to keep them off my VP's way behind the lines, and maneuvering skirmishers around flanks, and moving supplies to different parts of the battle line, and trying to get my couple of melee brigades into the right place for that one attack-breaking, enemy-slaughtering charge. A 3-1 kill ration on this battle is simply awesome for me.

On a lot of other battles, especially where I'm defending, if can break the attack early enough, I spend the rest of the battle mopping up the battlefield, blocking retreats from the map, surrounding the enemy into a cauldron, and wiping them out to a man. Unfortunately, on Chickamauga, there's not enough time for such fun 

The Brock Road battle is great for this, because your best attack plan is to flank around the enemy's right--which is poorly held--with your reinforcing corps, hitting the enemy's reinforcing division, so it never get into a defensive position. Once it's been dealt with, I can push the rest of the way round the southern side of the enemy, at which time he's completely surrounded. I nearly always gobble up 1-3 supply units along the way, because the AI plays really lose and sloppy with these, so if I'm paying enough attention, none of my units ever run out of supplies, while the enemy is invariably on red.

Then the only issue is pushing in and killing, constricting the circle of death smaller and smaller, until there's nothing left.

At least that's how I do it 

[quicksabre]

Once I realized that I got a second day and could win without Brotherton Road or Jay's Mill, I play really defensively on the second day. I could never keep my lines solid enough to prevent a batch of skirmishers from taking an objective, and I never felt I had enough brigades to leave one at each VP flag. So I just try to take advantage of local superiority to kill as many as possible then fall back to LaFayette road as soon as it opens. It's a good line and I don't have to worry about anyone sneaking around to the objectives.

That's one of the things I love about this game - so many good ways to play!

[Captain Orso]

*sigh* so I went back and while on the second day I had all VP's in my sweaty little hands, I started pulling back form Jay's Mill and Brotherton Road, a minor feat in itself, pulling back through the wood while your troops are pretty tired and your artillery takes forever to get through, and you need to keep a nice battle line maintained to keep the enemy at bay, while the line is in motion.

The Lafayette Road defenses are pretty nice, but don't offer the great fields of fire the area around Brotherton Road and Jay's Mill do, and then the infamous "Day 3" starts, and the devs have F-ed with me again, throwing me back from the great defensive line, with the Lafayette Road just behind it, so that I can move the supply wagon quickly from point to point and move reinforcements quickly from area to area. Now half the road is behind the lines, most of my forces are pressed back to the creek behind the road, and to move any units from one area to another, they have to cross the creek and/or move through woods, and all this, although the Rebs did not earn it in the least. I guess they just need to cheat to keep up.

In my company (large international computer and database manufacturer) we've had a saying for many years--decades--, if something just doesn't make sense, it's "just to f*ck with the Russians". Yeah, I feel very Russian right now.

The positions on the third day are so bad, was lucky to keep a loss/kill ratio of 1 to 2 instead of the 1 to 3 I had earned on the 1st and 2nd days.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Captain Orso

[Hitorishizuka]

That's not unique to Chickamauga at all. You always lose whatever ground you've taken and get sent back to the historical positions at the start of the new day. The game doesn't keep track of micropositions like that even like UGG could to some extent with having branching scenario paths.

[michaelsmithern]

for all my campaigns i've never seen Horseshoe ridge at chickamauga.