Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[Christoph]

5 hours ago, admin said:

pvp provide 2.5x more xp and 2х more money + 10х more fun. Human desire to avoid risk impossible to fix.
Players who want to find pvp could for example arrive to hostility generations

Yes PvP is fun but afk sailing with the ship to the free town is very boring.  We need the tow request back. Thats important.  Limit the tow Request.  1 or 2 ships per day

[z4ys]

33 minutes ago, admin said:

huge welcoming committees are part of the age of sail experience that was the initial vision of the open world. we did not want to make open world initially - players asked us - we delivered. In the real age of sail experience USS constitution did not request the british chase fleet to stop and do a duel. French admirals did not ask Nelson to split their fleet in two to have an exciting balanced battle, and Nelson did not write to the UN or league of nations to tell him where to sail to find the Franco-spanish grand fleet. He was searching and chasing him from march 1805 (battle happened in october). 

You don't have to like the experience - but you have to admit - it is how it was. You have less ships you run, they have less ships they run, you sail searching for targets -sometimes never finding them, you face overwhelming odds and you succeed and have joy when large battles happen. 

You are right. But the ocean was full of busy merchants where are they now? I dont mind to run when a player welcome commitee is chasing me. That can be fun too at least for me. But there is no sense in sailing out.Tell me how can a privateer enjoy the current game? I mean its a sandbox isnt it? I can be whatever I want or is that wrong? Do I have to play as navy captain to enjoy the game?

You are right you delivered the feeling of a navy captain no doubt. But the rest of the age of sail experience is missing.

Edited September 20, 2017 by z4ys

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

ok thank - then I am doing it correctly :). The threshold for the price is correct too?

What Ink said and it's x4 not x3 the cost. So say your short 50 stone blocks and you want them /NOW/.  Stone blocks cost 20 to produce each.   So you put a buy contract up for them at 80 a piece for a total of 50 and it will instantly fill that contract for your.  Remember you have to do it in a port that normally produces that good (you can set up a building).

[admin]

1 hour ago, Peter Goldman said:

Most would fear of getting "zerged" and "ganked" there just like in the old PvP zone event.

I am solo hunter and I know a fair bunch of them, usually solo hunting issues are solved when online numbers get high. The only additional content for solo players I would think of could be some event with potential 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 RoE rules... but that would have to be well thought how to implement.

ah you mean the battle size limits on some battles?
it was tested end of last year on live for at least 3 months in rookie zones and events and did not bring any meaningful results on increasing pvp or online. Nobody cared. Those events did not even let fleets in. Nobody cared.

Listening to people who ask for something and do not use it is a waste of time and resources. If we did not do it we would have had better AI for example and more pvp content (because better pve = better retention = more online = more solo hunting content)

As a result now we focus on players around the tree. The players who don't like that everything previously was done to support solo hunters.

they definitely use functions we added last patch

sorry for being direct.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

40 minutes ago, Bjerg Bjergsson said:

Mostly the time difference. Port battles typically happen during my work day or on the weekends when I'm busy (daytime here so I'm usually doing other things). I knew it was going to be the price for staying on EU server when Global went live but I also knew the pop wasn't going to be there on Global - and Combat Missions were still a thing back then so I still had ways of amusing myself. 

 

Maybe? Honestly, I doubt it given how tenuously my gold/ships situation is in game. My biggest ship is still the free Indefatigable I got post-wipe. That being said the option would be nice to have I suppose. 

 

Have you even tried Global?  I mean do you have a char with the XP over on that server so that some one could help you and others get up and going?  You say the pop isn't there but your US prime time and other than when folks where waiting for the patch GLOBAL during US prime time had more players than EU does.  Yes it's great over there during the EU pirme time and you have tons more players, but the numbers drop off very big after that prime time drops off.  If a good chuck of the actually US player base would stop playing over there and move over to the GLOBAL server our numbers would go up big time.  

We have small clans taking ports over on our server cause you have so many to ports and not enough clan/players to grab them all.  So it might actually be more enjoyable if some of you guys took a break and actually try GLOBAL.  I mean honestly if you did all the stuff to get your XP on the server you should be able to hit the floor and be up and running pretty fast.  I haven't checked the numbers in a while, but like I said when the 10 patch dropped we had actually more players on than EU during the US prime time so saying that pop wasn't there is a bit BS.  I can't speak for the other nations, but I know if you  and your clan came over to Pirates and we had the heads up BLACK would help get you in ships/cannons and up and running.   I'm pretty sure some of the big clans in US or GB would do the same too.  Sounds like the only ones holding you back from having more fun is yourself..

As for combat missions getting help.  You don't need them in solo.  FLEET MISSIONS ARE MEANT FOR A FLEET NOT SOLO.  You want to solo a fleet that fine pay the price of the risk in repairs (I do it all the time) or go hunt smaller fleets in OW you can handle.  Your small clan should be able to easily do a fleet missions if you show up with 3-5 guys.  They just aren't meant to be SOLO is all.  Hell you can easily solo the shallow and 4th rate hostility missions if you bring the right ship (much higher tier as there is no limit).  So how exactly are combat missions holding you back from having fun when there is a second option now of doing hostility missions?  

It takes 100 CM to get a WASA so you can easily get out of that Indefatigable and you make several 100K easily doing missions now.  I make from 4 4th rate hostility missions with 2-3 clan mate 1.6 millions.  That is per player on average after 4 missions so the money is there, the missions are there.   Those missions take us about 2 hours.  BANG that is your 1-2 hours of game plan.  Now the next day you can have a port battle (wait can't do this on EU) and if it's owned you might get a decent group of equal number players. (you prob won't see 25 vs 25 on GLOBAL unless it's a major econ port).   Seems the only thing holding folks back that are in small groups and solo are themselves and maybe the server they remain on if they want to get involved in RvR too.  Hell I still play my Pirate on EU from time to time on EU, normally on Sunday mornings (US time) when I"m on and most of my clan mates aren't. I go over there and solo hunt traders.  They are out there and you can find them, just have to figure out the trade runs they make and not do it in capital waters any more.  Something I never did in the first place.

[admin]

52 minutes ago, z4ys said:

You are right. But the ocean was full of busy merchants where are they now?

Busy merchants is a function of online as well. But again. Previous implementation was fucking stupid where we listened to solo hunters and increased weights 4 times so solo hunters can have more targets (because they wanted traders to haul more). That actually reduced online (but increased targets initially).

Its an ecology - more players = more targets. Focus must be on more players. Not on "please help solo hunters". If players come and enjoy there will be solo hunting. So all solo hunters who feedback here must run all their feedback through the following filter - will it make an average player enjoy the game more - not through the filter will i get more pvp.

 

[Maloco]

I play on the server of pve, I built my shipyard in Cartagena and I bought the permits to embark my ships in Barranquilla. With the last change in the map I have to buy the permits in Havana and then return to Cartagena. Could they make the permits to carry them as it does with the combat marks?
I once read to the administrator that the map was designed for a clan to establish itself in an area of the map to create their home and defend it. In pvp you can capture ports and then you have the admiralty tab in that port. The pve server players can not do that, and I created my shipyard before changing the map ....any solution?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Maloco

[Hodo]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

Busy merchants is a function of online as well. But again. Previous implementation was hello kittying stupid where we listened to solo hunters and increased weights 4 times so solo hunters can have more targets (because they wanted traders to haul more).

 

Not sure who was requesting this but, what?

If you thought it was stupid then, why did you do it?  YOU are the developer.

[z4ys]

30 minutes ago, admin said:

Busy merchants is a function of online as well. But again. Previous implementation was hello kittying stupid where we listened to solo hunters and increased weights 4 times so solo hunters can have more targets. Its an ecology - more players = more targets. Focus must be on more players. Not on "please help solo hunters"

 

We both agree on that more players = more targets. But with every patch, focus shift from one grp to an other. 9.x was carebaers, 10.x was solo play, 11.x is rvr + carebears. I am not asking to make it a solo hunter game only. I am asking for to include all kinds of gameplays and not to focus on certain ones. The bigger the game spectrum the more people are willing to play = more people online = more targets.

I am asking for 12.x Cearbears  + solo player/small grp + RvR

I dont want a game for a certain grp of players I want a game for everyone where erveryone has the right and purpose to be.

Edited September 20, 2017 by z4ys

[Jean Ribault]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

You are right. But the ocean was full of busy merchants where are they now? ...

 

To the pve server.  Well, this merchant anyway.

• Risk vs reward = low:  pvp server, sometimes pve server
• Risk vs reward = high:  pve server almost always
• Risk vs reward = balanced:  both servers time spread out between them

Right now I see it as high, sounds like others too.  That answers the question in my mind.

[Sir Texas Sir]

54 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Rookie zone had different purpose and failed to deliver it. I know many veterans playing in the rookie zone because of the RoE. It was not the rookie zone, it was "different RoE" zone. I know players that did like it and used, but consider people that didn't want to play in the rookie zone for that RoE as it was missing the point of rookie zone itself. Also the zone was shallow only. That's another huge limitation that cannot give us objective conclusions on that "testing".

I actually liked it cause it did two things.  Made fights more equal and keep the annoying fleet ships out of the fights.  US who we fought mostly in the shallows would constally always have two ships in fleet in the shallow so when you try to fight 3 vs 5 which we had no problem doing it normally turned more into a 3 vs 15 with alll the AI.   What I loved even more was the AI counted against the BR to join.  So you tag some one with fleet ships it locked others out from joining.....lol

50 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I dont trade anymore, a waste of time when I do much more money doing missions. And I get combat marks at the same time.

The problem was before patch you made prettty much only the big profits from doing trade and very little from PvE or PvP.   Now you can make money for both, but the higher risk gives you the better pay out in the long run.  Cause you can still get sunk by AI and well if your doing Hostility missions some one can join you.  While trade runs tend to be low risk (depends where you make them they can be high risk).  If your loosing 20% profits off the tax's than you where doing them wrong in the fist place.   Now there is more than one way to profit in game.  If some one hates combat they can still go do trade runs to make money. I did one the other day on the way back from dropping off resources at a port and made a good chunk of money on the return trip instead of being empty so folks saying you can't profit from trade runs isn't doing it right.  Maybe you just can't get as rich as you use to.  That was the problem folks would run around buying all trade goods with 4 trade ships and than they out bid the guys struggling to PvP/PvE and buy mods and such cause they have all the money.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

 

If you thought it was stupid then, why did you do it?  YOU are the developer.

If you know everything in advance you are probably a billionaire or something?

Of course we thought asbestos tea was a great idea then and added asbestos it to everything. It could Improve your health and what not. It became obvious LATER that it was a stupid idea.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

I dont trade anymore, a waste of time when I do much more money doing missions. And I get combat marks at the same time.

 

 

i think this is great. If you like trading you make money if you don't like trading you can finally make money by other means.

[Sven Silberbart]

31 minutes ago, admin said:

i think this is great. If you like trading you make money if you don't like trading you can finally make money by other means.

i would call that unbalanced, not great. Making PvE Missions should always less luctrative than trading and pvp.

[Sven Silberbart]

42 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Income ladder in my opinion:

1. PvP - very risk, highest income if you win

2. Trading - high risk, high income.

3. PvE - low risk, medium income.

YES  That is extactly my thought. That is the right order. That is how it should looks like. @admin should think about that

Edited September 20, 2017 by Sven Silberbart

[vazco]

4 hours ago, admin said:

will it make an average player enjoy the game more - not through the filter will i get more pvp.

I've yet have to find a player who would be thrilled with PvE in Naval Action. Everyone that I know (even new guys) does it only for xp, drops, money and marks. Safe PvE zone is important for gaining new players, however ad-hoc PvP in groups of 1-10 players is what makes new players stay for longer, creating environment for others, and improving reviews. RvR is for more advanced players, who already know at least basics of PvP, and who are ok with plans and schedules.

Right now we have a gap between PvE and RvR.

Edited September 20, 2017 by vazco

[Liq]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Listening to people who ask for something and do not use it is a waste of time and resources. If we did not do it we would have had better AI for example and more pvp content (because better pve = better retention = more online = more solo hunting content)

As a result now we focus on players around the tree. The players who don't like that everything previously was done to support solo hunters.

they definitely use functions we added last patch

sorry for being direct.

Sounds like you're adressing that to us (me aswell) directly. May be true that, in my case, I didn't play as intensively as I used to (reason has nothing to do with NA), but I still played. Also, if you look at the poll you made, you'll see the majority agreed that due to the existence of two dimensions such a change as speedboost was needed, so it wasn't "only for the solo hunters".

Edited September 20, 2017 by Liq

[Teutonic]

4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

What Ink said and it's x4 not x3 the cost. So say your short 50 stone blocks and you want them /NOW/.  Stone blocks cost 20 to produce each.   So you put a buy contract up for them at 80 a piece for a total of 50 and it will instantly fill that contract for your.  Remember you have to do it in a port that normally produces that good (you can set up a building).

thank you - someone incorrectly told me x3 it seems, or it was my mind playing tricks on me.

[Quineloe]

Is there any way to tell which towns not held by your own clan have a trading outpost and a labor hours thingything?

[BetaVape]

Solo PVP is not dead. If you want to hunt theres plenty of high traffic/bottleneck areas outside of capitals. Sealclubbing lowbies in capital zone is dead which is great for the game. Got a trader with 300k worth of white oak yesterday and it was the most rewarding 300k ive earned since new patch. Pick your fights, run when you cant fight, be a pirate. YAARRR

[Fargo]

On 19.9.2017 at 11:58 PM, Peter Goldman said:

What's wrong with clan economy? Also, if you didn't know... There is a solo shipbuilder in US nation called Tuck. He builds ships for all the major clans, at least he used to do it after the wipe. He would provide them with agamemnons and 1st rates. I would rather have my clan focus on war, fighting, conquest (PvP in short) rather than waste time on trading and crafting. That is the reason why we hire players that are not a part of our clan. We pay them for labor hours, for resources, for trading etc. 

That is also silly from your side to blame big clans for ruining the player-driven economy. A good and smart businessman will find his way to benefit or as some prefer - create a charity (I know quite a few solo shipbuilders that main goal took as helping new players). 

Also... are you trying to say that 100 men clan is ruining the economy of a nation that maybe about 1000 unique players play weekly? I won't believe it.

Im not blaming clans for anything, im blaming mechanics promoting not to use the market. But you shouldnt carry it to extremes, trying to organise everything. Its hard enough with low pop to get a market running, even if perfectly balanced.

"Wasting time with crafting and trading", is this all you connect with it? Using the market simply means buying and selling stuff. You neither have to leave the port, nor does it require time. 

A working market would help clans too btw. Do you think you gain advantages from internal economy? Thats wrong. In general its not a difference to supply 10 people with 10 people, or 1 guy supplying himself using the market. Its not a difference if everyone gives labour away for free (clan), or if you sell and buy labour for 1000 gold/LH. On the other side all advantages a working market brings would effect everyone, including clans.

Youre advise is to get hired by clans? So youre admitting that economy is broken? Thats all i wanted to point out...

19 hours ago, Malachy said:

I'm a ship builder too. There is no reason for prices to go up except simple greed. In fact it got incredibly cheaper to build ships last patch. I've built about two dozen bellonas in the past couple weeks. For the most part I've used resources I collected. The last patch halved the cost, actually more than halved it. I sell ships to folks who ask me to make them for usually a fraction of the cost these sharks are selling for and make a nice profit. Ripping people off because more money is available is simple greed, not mathematics.

You dont understand, and youre not a free shipbuidler acting on the market. Its not about making random profit, its about profit compared with other goods. You dont sell ships for less than you can sell basic resources for, cause its a production chain. Thats simple math. When i can sell resources for 300 g/lh, i have to sell ships for atleast the same. Ship cost doesnt matter, its just important what you sell your labour for.

You dont gather resources as a shipbuilder btw. if you want to make profit, and greed is not effecting market prices at all.

[Malachy]

21 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Im not blaming clans for anything, im blaming mechanics promoting not to use the market. But you shouldnt carry it to extremes, trying to organise everything. Its hard enough with low pop to get a market running, even if perfectly balanced.

"Wasting time with crafting and trading", is this all you connect with it? Using the market simply means buying and selling stuff. You neither have to leave the port, nor does it require time. 

A working market would help clans too btw. Do you think you gain advantages from internal economy? Thats wrong. In general its not a difference to supply 10 people with 10 people, or 1 guy supplying himself using the market. Its not a difference if everyone gives labour away for free (clan), or if you sell and buy labour for 1000 gold/LH. On the other side all advantages a working market brings would effect everyone, including clans.

Youre advise is to get hired by clans? So youre admitting that economy is broken? Thats all i wanted to point out...

You dont understand, and youre not a free shipbuidler acting on the market. Its not about making random profit, its about profit compared with other goods. You dont sell ships for less than you can sell basic resources for, cause its a production chain. Thats simple math. When i can sell resources for 300 g/lh, i have to sell ships for atleast the same. Ship cost doesnt matter, its just important what you sell your labour for.

You dont gather resources as a shipbuilder btw. if you want to make profit, and greed is not effecting market prices at all.

I beg to differ. If you are buying resources off the market, you are doing it wrong. I'm sitting on thousands of materials that I obtained myself and it didn't take long. I'm also sitting on tens of thousands of clan resources. Like I said I've built a dozen bellonas in less than that many days and a couple 1st rates too. All without buying anything off the market. It's really easy to set up a chain of suppliers too, to avoid being ripped  off on the market. I've got a bunch of people who supply me regularly in exchange for a ship here and there. I've got guys who keep labor contracts flowing. I've got other folks who I pay to use their labor. It costs me less than 50k to make most 5th rates and I can do a bellona for about 375k now. So tell me again how I'm doing it wrong and your doing it right? 

[Fargo]

50 minutes ago, Malachy said:

I beg to differ. If you are buying resources off the market, you are doing it wrong. I'm sitting on thousands of materials that I obtained myself and it didn't take long. I'm also sitting on tens of thousands of clan resources. Like I said I've built a dozen bellonas in less than that many days and a couple 1st rates too. All without buying anything off the market. It's really easy to set up a chain of suppliers too, to avoid being ripped  off on the market. I've got a bunch of people who supply me regularly in exchange for a ship here and there. I've got guys who keep labor contracts flowing. I've got other folks who I pay to use their labor. It costs me less than 50k to make most 5th rates and I can do a bellona for about 375k now. So tell me again how I'm doing it wrong and your doing it right? 

Youre not referring to what im talking about. Im talking about maximising profit in a working economical environment, youre talking about abusing a broken economy?!. Dont you see that youre just proofing how broken it is? Thats all i wanted to point out. Money and all your stuff became worthless already. 

You buy materials, not resources. Resource cost of a 5th rate is about 100k btw, bellona about 250k. And you must not forget labour cost. When you use 2k LH to craft a ship all alone, for a labour value of 300g/LH that costs you 600k gold. You dont directly loose 600k, but you loose a potential profit of 600k. Also it doesnt matter if you can do a bellona for 100k, when you cant sell it for more than 100k. So whats your profit.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Fargo

[Malachy]

You are abit off in your prices. A regular frigate cost 75k before the patch, it's considerably less now. My point is you don't need to get ripped off if you apply common  sense and do a little leg work. 

The economy isn't broken, we are experiencing inflation due to more readily available cash. Most people are trying to capitalize as fast as they can. Ship prices have jumped considerably along with everything else. I don't buy anything from the market. Nothing.  All of my materials come from production lines I set up. I'm half tempted to really tank the ship economy. All I need to do is start putting ships up for reasonable costs instead of gouging 600 to 2000 percent. The only thing wrong with the economy is pure greed. People can make and sell things a lot cheaper than they do currently. They choose not to. 

Labor hours may have an arbitrary value some may choose to charge for, but they are populated for free and labor contracts are free as well. We've got an alt that just farms bottles. We have hundreds of labor contracts stored. If people sold for reasonable mark ups, I'd use the market sometimes. As it is , the greed has lost them a lot. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Malachy

[Vizzini]

1 hour ago, Malachy said:

 I'm half tempted to really tank the ship economy.

I'm not sure why you're complaining about other players choosing to price their goods higher than you think is fair. Rightly or wrongly this isn't some back water communist utopia. It's a market where people can choose what to sell their labour and goods for. You might think prices are high on ships, so high that you think you should tank the ship economy, not sure what the weather is like up there on your high horse.

in the same post you mention having an alt just to farm bottles, so that's like buying ingame gold for real currency IIRC. That's all fine by me by the way but not everybody is prepared to buy an extra copy of the game to fund their ship purchases.

 

You don't have to buy their goods and as long as they aren't cheating or abusing the games systems then they aren't doing anything wrong. You don't have to pay their price do you ?