The Pirate Nation?

[Duncan McFail]

56 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them

Not quite sure what you're saying there. Previous post nationals should be able to attack each other and this post sounds like you're saying pirates shouldn't be able to?

[Captain Lust]

1 hour ago, Duncan McFail said:

Not quite sure what you're saying there. Previous post nationals should be able to attack each other and this post sounds like you're saying pirates shouldn't be able to?

Yeah, i recall. Thought i was tripping for a moment but mod or admin deleted all the posts from this conversation.

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Not quite sure what you're saying there. Previous post nationals should be able to attack each other and this post sounds like you're saying pirates shouldn't be able to?

Exclusive, as in exclusive to pirates, as in only they can do it

ex·clu·sive

ikˈsklo͞osiv/

adjective

 

2. 2.

   restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned.

[Skully]

4 hours ago, Lord Reginald said:

do you know when this next change is going to come about regarding Nassau being Pirate capital

No, but can't any Free Town be considered a Pirate "capital"?

Should Nassau become a shielded Capital, then I would say Pirates need a Free Town somewhere towards the south to store (and potentially sell) any captured deep ships.

[Horatio 15]

It sounds like the Devs were leaving Shroud Cay as a Free town but a follow on question I have is: If Nassau is a noncapturable capital & one has craft bldg & ship yard there...it appears to me only shallow capable ships can be built there??

[Skully]

22 minutes ago, Lord Reginald said:

It sounds like the Devs were leaving Shroud Cay as a Free town but a follow on question I have is: If Nassau is a noncapturable capital & one has craft bldg & ship yard there...it appears to me only shallow capable ships can be built there??

Shroud Cay and Nassau are both shallow ports, so it would only be possible to craft shallow ships. 

[Skully]

10 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them

And 

On 3/25/2015 at 0:20 PM, admin said:

Pirates are not a Nation.

I don't see where you want to go with this.

Might as well: 

On 8/31/2016 at 9:42 PM, Skully said:

Fair is providing everyone the same tools, means and options. Although Pirates are (/will/should be) balanced asymmetrically a players path should always have the option to move in or out of this (at a cost though / with a goal to attain).

Edited August 28, 2017 by Skully
Added a bit more insight

[Duncan McFail]

7 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Exclusive, as in exclusive to pirates, as in only they can do it

ex·clu·sive

ikˈsklo͞osiv/

adjective

 

2. 2.

   restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned.

Yeah that's my point. When you say "Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them" I'm thinking you mean pirates shouldn't be able to in fight. But you're saying it just shouldn't be exclusive to pirates. Like I said. Good topic to see a poll on to see how many nationals think it's a safe bet. 

[Slim McSauce]

3 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Yeah that's my point. When you say "Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them" I'm thinking you mean pirates shouldn't be able to in fight. But you're saying it just shouldn't be exclusive to pirates. Like I said. Good topic to see a poll on to see how many nationals think it's a safe bet. 

No, I'm saying, by definition, nation infighting shouldn't be a feature....

1. • ex·clu·sive

     ikˈsklo͞osiv/

     adjective

     2.

     restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned.

2.  

   To pirates, as in not limited to the pirates, as in only pirates can do it. THATS what I mean by pirate exclusive content, you'e mixing exclusive to with  excluded from

Edited August 28, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[IndianaGeoff]

12 hours ago, Skully said:

Shroud Cay and Nassau are both shallow ports, so it would only be possible to craft shallow ships. 

In the port bonus days, you would build the first rate in the islands and then teleport to home.

[Skully]

2 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

In the port bonus days, you would build the first rate in the islands and then teleport to home.

Sounds like a bug to me. 

[Koltes]

11 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Yeah that's my point. When you say "Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them" I'm thinking you mean pirates shouldn't be able to in fight. But you're saying it just shouldn't be exclusive to pirates. Like I said. Good topic to see a poll on to see how many nationals think it's a safe bet. 

Lol I have no problem with nationals getting green on green. I'm sure none of the pirates do.

In that case I will make Koltes US Privateer and Koltes GB Privateer and hunt them left and right using teleports to their own town (being of the same nation), aka rogue US or GB captain  

On a serious note if thats what they want they should have it. It will really help them to sort their internal issues out. And if they cant, pirates will help  

Edited August 28, 2017 by koltes

[Rebrall]

28 minutes ago, koltes said:

Lol I have no problem with nationals getting green on green. I'm sure none of the pirates do.

In that case I will make Koltes US Privateer and Koltes GB Privateer and hunt them left and right using teleports to their own town (being of the same nation), aka rogue US or GB captain  

On a serious note if thats what they want they should have it. It will really help them to sort their internal issues out. And if they cant, pirates will help  

I'm still confused as to why we can't GnG! But there defanitly has to be a specific instance for it similar to outlaw battles to signify its a FFA fight 

[Koltes]

12 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

I'm still confused as to why we can't GnG! But there defanitly has to be a specific instance for it similar to outlaw battles to signify its a FFA fight 

Honestly all these sides in battle are just grounds for endless exploits. Let all battles of OW be FFA. Players will learn who to shoot. Its should be up to players to sort sides, not the game

[Rebrall]

2 minutes ago, koltes said:

Honestly all these sides in battle are just grounds for endless exploits. Let all battles of OW be FFA. Players will learn who to shoot. Its should be up to players to sort sides, not the game

I know and agree but like work safe are here in nz you have to protect the idiots 

[Koltes]

I have proposed to make one server like EU as PVP (same rules, sides etc) and make Global as Hardcore PVP where there are no sides. Battles open. All FFA. Join circle gets larger in size every second otherwise battles open for eternity. No invisibility, no speed buffs. Clans of one nation can go war no clans of the same nation. Total freedom. Do whatever you like. Wanna grief. Ok do it, but there are no mechanics that would protect the griefer. Players will sort everything out and those who dont like that will play on normal PVP

[Jean Ribault]

I have always played a national in this game, and always intend to, and therefore have not argued any opinion of mine regarding pirates in this game, other than to say it should be the hardest to play.  But in my mind I feel like the following are the key elements to making pirate play a success in this game, and these are only my opinion, so I am just offering them, not arguing them:

1. Pirate should be the hardest to play in this game, by choice.

2. Pirates were by choice rebels against colonial rule and the Crown.  Any crown.  They should never be made into a nation.

3. Pirates should be able to attack anyone anywhere at any time, either solo or in a group.

4. Pirates should not own ports, but should have one (perhaps two) ports of sanctuary across the map.  The ports could be attacked but never taken away.

5. Pirates should be able to take a port other than a national capital.  However, gameplay should be "unfairly" stacked against them, so that it is nearly impossible to keep for any length of time, maybe 3 days max.  Allowing them to stage raids or attacks, but keeping them constantly mobile.

6. Pirates should be limited to smaller ships, so greater than 4th class ships.  Or as an alternative, limited in numbers of ships greater than 4th class on any one server.  This will be controversial.

7. As in any faction of this game, if it is going to be successful, interesting, and captivating, there must be a career established, with goals.  The goals for pirates would be distinctly different from any one nation.

 

Just adding these few elements to the game would make pirate life unique, interesting, and difficult.  This is why I would choose pirate if I desired to play one.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Koltes:  Do you think then that nations would self police such a system? To me,  Pirates appear to do so, in that there, is a form of gentleman's agreement that such battles would more of a grievance resolution system than a mode of play. 

It also appears to me you are offering a more purist or skillful game or perhaps I reading more into it than there is? Not that I disagree with idea I simply seek clarification.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Sir Lancelot Holland

[Duncan McFail]

1 hour ago, Jean Ribault said:

I have always played a national in this game

1. Pirates should be able to attack anyone anywhere at any time, either solo or in a group.

2. Pirates should not own ports, but should have one (perhaps two) ports of sanctuary across the map.  The ports could be attacked but never taken away.

3. Pirates should be able to take a port other than a national capital.  However, gameplay should be "unfairly" stacked against them, so that it is nearly impossible to keep for any length of time, maybe 3 days max.  Allowing them to stage raids or attacks, but keeping them constantly mobile.

4. Pirates should be limited to smaller ships, so greater than 4th class ships.  Or as an alternative, limited in numbers of ships greater than 4th class on any one server.  This will be controversial.

And this is the difference between a nationals pov vs a pirates. Perfect example. To sum it up we keep our ability to attack each other, lose all but 1or 2 of our ports, can't hold new ports for more than 3 days, and can't have ships above a 4th rate. All take and absolutely no give. How about we take away 3 current mechanics from nationals as well. Like no tp between ports,  no capping of any ships, and they can only have 2 ships owned max. You'd probably feel about the same as we would losing so much and gaining nothing. 

[Rebrall]

17 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

And this is the difference between a nationals pov vs a pirates. Perfect example. To sum it up we keep our ability to attack each other, lose all but 1or 2 of our ports, can't hold new ports for more than 3 days, and can't have ships above a 4th rate. All take and absolutely no give. How about we take away 3 current mechanics from nationals as well. Like no tp between ports,  no capping of any ships, and they can only have 2 ships owned max. You'd probably feel about the same as we would losing so much and gaining nothing. 

Actually I agree. As for the thread it self I don't believe we should be apart of any nation but have a reputation system along with career paths to take and start as privateers (I'm a national btw) atleast that way we get chance to create our selfs the way want and have certain mechanics to suit our chosen career path 

[Skully]

5 hours ago, Rebrall said:

I'm still confused as to why we can't GnG! But there defanitly has to be a specific instance for it similar to outlaw battles to signify its a FFA fight 

 

5 hours ago, koltes said:

Honestly all these sides in battle are just grounds for endless exploits. Let all battles of OW be FFA. Players will learn who to shoot. Its should be up to players to sort sides, not the game

It is about player expectations and @admin's virtue of fairness.

It is unfair for a casual player to expect he can be attacked by a fellow National.

In this I fully agree.

FFA battles is a mistake. I shouted something popular and it got implemented. It should really be Clan vs Clan. (Hence also the initial AI bugs. )

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Skully said:

Pirates from the same clan should not be able to attack one-another.

It's just a small thing easily bypassed, but it's easy implementable and takes care of some of these cases.

If, however, we could as a Nationalist (Clan) mark any fellow Nation Clan as enemy, then we could fight it out.

On Tuesday, July 04, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Skully said:

Ultimately I think it needs to turn to Clan vs Clan anyway as you can't force players to work together. This however does not eliminate a Nation vs Nation overlay.
Just let a Nation have enough perks as an incentive for players to work together (and then see a Nation fall into chaos by their own design ).

The green-on-green scenarios would then become a Clan diplomacy problem, not a Tribunal one.

But needing Clan vs Clan RoE runs into the highly controversial  (and bannable ) trouble of questioning the shortcoming of the great and excellent Combat engine for not being multi-sided.

 

[Koltes]

4 hours ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Koltes:  Do you think then that nations would self police such a system? To me,  Pirates appear to do so, in that there, is a form of gentleman's agreement that such battles would more of a grievance resolution system than a mode of play. 

It also appears to me you are offering a more purist or skillful game or perhaps I reading more into it than there is? Not that I disagree with idea I simply seek clarification.

It comes naturally. Reason why people grief is because they can get away with it without penalties. GnG allows you to deal with those people.
Today nations blame their disorganization because pirates have GnG. In their view we just bully everyone on pirates and thats how we stay organised. Well what about before April patch, before GnG. We were still organised 100 times more than nationals. What this mean is that GnG is not there to bully anyone, but to sort internal problems. That is all.

Don't forget that with clan on clan the importance of nations will be reduced greatly. Clan importance will rise.


 

3 minutes ago, Skully said:

It is about player expectations and @admin's virtue of fairness.
It is unfair for a casual player to expect he can be attacked by a fellow National.
In this I fully agree.
In the high security waters that are going to be introduced players will be able to sail under the protection of the coastal defense AI fleet that will be sort of like CONCORD in EVE.
In no security space,.. errr waters it should be 100% up to players what actions will or will not be applied.
There should be crime mechanic introduced in the game. Attacking your own nation player anywhere in the Caribbean is a crime against YOUR nation, therefore player should become a pirate temporarily until his crim tag cools down.
 

FFA battles is a mistake. I shouted something popular and it got implemented. It should really be Clan vs Clan. (Hence also the initial AI bugs. )
FFA is not a mistake if implemented properly. Sided battles should only be in organized fights such as RvR.


If, however, we could as a Nationalist (Clan) mark any fellow Nation Clan as enemy, then we could fight it out.
Yeah with a War Declaration, aka WARDEC one clan can attack another clan anywhere (during the WARDEC AI defenses look the other way when these two clans fight each other). WARDEC should last 7 days.

The green-on-green scenarios would then become a Clan diplomacy problem, not a Tribunal one.
Spot on

But needing Clan vs Clan RoE runs into the highly controversial  (and bannable ) trouble of questioning the shortcoming of the great and excellent Combat engine for not being multi-sided.
There will be no exploits if battles are FFA. Being in war with another clan simple allows them to fight each other without getting ganked by AI reinforcements and getting a criminal tag.

@admin
Devs should make a small fix and make all battles FFA ROE until the new patch comes out. Just do it. You have nothing to lose, but will give players something to test and play with until the new patch comes out. Just a thought 


 

[Koltes]

Played pirate for 2 years. Done it all. Small fleet, solo (obviously ), RvR, medium fleet, no fleet, ambushing, hunting, econ etc etc.

On one hand I understand where the nationals coming from that they want pirates not to have access to SOLs and RVR. If this is happens nothing is going to be changed for the server balance. Pirates will roll under different flag and we will have exact same thing, but under different flag. I understand where you are coming from, but dont think it will sort anything out. Also, and its a big argument here you are denying pirate players a large portion of game - SOL fighting. I honestly don't care about historical facts, we are playing a game to have fun. It needs to be fun first and foremost.

In my humble opinion, Pirate nation should NOT be allowed for RvR, however pirate players SHOULD be able to use any and all ships including SOLs. And this is the key to everything.

Here my thoughts on what Pirate mechanics should be.

First and foremost pirates stop being a nation.

- Pirates have no capitals, no land, nothing.
- Each nation have their nation pirate town that is not capturable. French have La Tortue, GB have Nassau and so on. Those towns are tolerant to pirates and allow them to enter.
- GB players can teleport to Nassau. French players can teleport to La Tortue. Pirates can teleport to all of them.
- Those are the towns that form a global trade hub as all those town share ONE shop and one shipyard. Those are the only places where pirates can trade (place contracts). 
- Pirates also have hideouts all around the map (multiple). Those hideouts are simple docks with no shipyard, shops or production, but they can teleport to them.
- Pirates have ability to temporarily become a privateer (a national player) for a maximum duration of 7 days with a cooldown if canceled or not extended.
- As a privateer pirates may join National Port Battles - these will be the ONLY PB that pirates can fight (as privateers only), so they will always fight for nationals, not themselves.
- When pirates are pirates and not privateers they may attack cities on their own with a purpose to Raid and not conquer, e.g. because production is something that is not available to pirates Raiding and robbing cities of their production items is a valuable way to gather resources.
- Pirates can be attacked on sight by anyone unless they carry a national flag (privateering for a nation), then nation ROE rules apply - no attacking in capital zones or AI reinforcements will come to aid pirate player
 

Something like that

Edited August 29, 2017 by koltes

[Skully]

16 minutes ago, koltes said:

In the high security waters that are going to be introduced players will be able to sail under the protection of the coastal defense AI fleet that will be sort of like CONCORD in EVE.

17 minutes ago, koltes said:

Reason why people grief is because they can get away with it without penalties.

5 minutes ago, koltes said:

There will be no exploits if battles are FFA. Being in war with another clan simple allows them to fight each other without getting ganked by AI reinforcements and getting a criminal tag.

The game engine can never detect crimes in a FFA, so your statements appear contradictory to me.

18 minutes ago, koltes said:

@admin
Devs should make a small fix and make all battles FFA ROE until the new patch comes out. Just do it. You have nothing to lose, but will give players something to test and play with until the new patch comes out. Just a thought 

Come to testbed so you can fight in FFA as Pirates without fear of losses?

I think that was the message, was it not?

[Rebrall]

12 minutes ago, koltes said:

Played pirate for 2 years. Done it all. Small fleet, solo (obviously ), RvR, medium fleet, no fleet, ambushing, hunting, econ etc etc.

On one hand I understand where the nationals coming from that they want pirates not to have access to SOLs and RVR. If this is happens nothing is going to be changed for the server balance. Pirates will roll under different flag and we will have exact same thing, but under different flag. I understand where you are coming from, but dont think it will sort anything out. Also, and its a big argument here you are denying pirate players a large portion of game - SOL fighting. I honestly don't care about historical facts, we are playing a game to have fun. It needs to be fun first and foremost.

In my humble opinion, Pirate nation should NOT be allowed for RvR, however pirate players SHOULD be able to use any and all ships including SOLs. And this is the key to everything.

Here my thoughts on what Pirate mechanics should be.

First and foremost pirates stop being a nation.

- Pirates have no capitals, no land, nothing.
- Each nation have their nation pirate town that is not capturable. French have La Tortue, GB have Nassau and so on. Those towns are tolerant to pirates and allow them to enter.
- GB players can teleport to Nassau. French players can teleport to La Tortue. Pirates can teleport to all of them.
- Those are the towns that form a global trade hub as all those town share ONE shop and one shipyard. Those are the only places where pirates can trade (place contracts). 
- Pirates also have hideouts all around the map (multiple). Those hideouts are simple docks with no shipyard, shops or production.
- Pirates have ability to temporarily become a privateer (a national player) for a maximum duration of 7 days with a cooldown if canceled or not extended.
- As a privateer pirates may join National Port Battles - these will be the ONLY PB that pirates can fight (as privateers only), so they will always fight for nationals, not themselves.
- When pirates are pirates and not privateers they may attack cities on their own with a purpose to Raid and not conquer, e.g. because production is something that is not available to pirates Raiding and robbing cities of their production items is a valuable way to gather resources.
- Pirates can be attacked on sight by anyone unless they carry a national flag (privateering for a nation), than nation ROE rules apply - no attacking in capital zones or AI reinforcements will come to aid pirate player
 

Something like that

I'm not sure its a dig at black and denying you guys RvR.

I think it would maybe have an effect on the balance of the population as in the relation to what a pirate is and does vs what a national is and does

i don't think the nationals are trying to hinder the pirate players more make them different from a nation  

i do like your idea though

we can talk about it all day but ultimately at this  stage its up to the dev's to create a the pirates what they should be in there eyes