The Pirate Nation?

[Skully]

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Please discuss politely (as if we ever do differently ).

[Skully]

I can kick off with: 

 

[Slim McSauce]

I'll kick off with this belongs here

 

[Skully]

We don't discuss mechanics in National News.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Skully said:

We don't discuss mechanics in National News.

It doesn't matter, its not moderated. Full freedom of speech

[Slim McSauce]

But hey if you wanna talk mechanics, scroll down to the 3rd section of this post. Thats what I think pirates should be and I think everyone including pirates would like it better that way.

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Skully]

7 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Full freedom of speech

If you think you've found grounds that I have not tested yet, you might be mistaken.

This forum site is an establishment owned by Game-Labs. A legal fact asserted by EU ECC Justice department.

On 7/12/2017 at 0:53 PM, Skully said:

And moreover ruling 257572/16/NL from ECC, EU customers are subject only to Steam EULA and EU law. Tribunal rules only apply to accounts on forum.game-labs.net.

Under advisement of the EU solicitor, if you seek freedom of speech you should use another forum.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Skully

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, Skully said:

If you think you've found grounds that I have not tested yet, you might be mistaken.

This forum site is an establishment owned by Game-Labs. A legal fact asserted by EU ECC Justice department.

Under advisement of the EU solicitor, if you seek freedom of speech you should use another forum.

Ok yeah get it. There is no such thing as free speech in Europe

But seriously, right here tell me what you think about that pirate suggestion. Most of you rats have on ignore so I haven't gotten anything from you yet

Edited August 26, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Ok yeah get it. There is no such thing as free speech in Europe

But seriously, right here tell me what you think about that pirate suggestion. Most of you rats have on ignore so I haven't gotten anything from you yet

Again you try to be witty by bringing your misconception as a joke to counter a premise.

You are trying to hide your insulting behind the argument of "freedom of speech". There is no freedom to insult without facing the consequences.

So now you stand with "An incomplete fix to RVR" which nobody bothers to look at anymore or even can see anymore.

May I advice is toning down your words and restructuring your proposal into smaller pieces based on true premises and facts. Maybe then others will see you again as a positive contributor and ultimately the "rats" won't ignore you anymore.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Skully

[TBD]

With the new clan war (ala EVE) direction, the flags will matter less and less. I doubt pirates will ever be unique. I do not think pirates should be a selectable option, you become a pirate in game. I personally would like the old Black flag (pirate republic)/Red flag (outlaw pirates) proposal with ability to earn forged papers by doing "good" deeds and becoming and outlaw by doing "bad" things to "good" people.  Pirate republic would be a nation, and outlaws would be able to TP in out of free towns but could not own ports. Privateer system for Pirates would be nice, with earning reputation for tha nation who hired them, that could lead to letter of marque.

Devs seem to be preoccupied with constant RVR and PVP changes. My big disappointment right now is simple lack of content. I have never played a MMO where players are expected to create the content. MOBA types games do that. MMO needs solid game content, storyline, career progression, guilds, missions, raids, etc etc. Then RVR and PVP gets incorporated into that. Pirate lore would be a part of the storyline. How did your character became a pirate? Everyone would have a story to tell.

 

[Skully]

6 minutes ago, Comrade I Stalin said:

MOBA types games do that. MMO needs solid game content, storyline, career progression, guilds, missions, raids, etc etc.

Ah, never thought of it in such light. We currently have a MMOBA, not a MMO.

Not to stump any potential content like storyline, missions etc. But making that clear distinction for the moment creates a much better expectation for new players where the game stands right now.

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Skully said:

Again you try to be witty by bringing your misconception as a joke to counter a premise.

You are trying to hide your insulting behind the argument of "freedom of speech". There is no freedom to insult without facing the consequences.

So now you stand with "An incomplete fix to RVR" which nobody bothers to look at anymore or even can see anymore.

May I advice is toning down your words and restructuring your proposal into smaller pieces based on true premises and facts. Maybe then others will see you again as a positive contributor and ultimately the "rats" won't ignore you anymore.

err. Ok. Sorry to trigger you with my silly joke (americans are fat hahahha we're all so funny)

Instead of talk mechanics I guess you prefer to play offended victim of jokes and jest. Good thread OP.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Anne Wildcat]

I know players who play pirate that feel pirates should not have the ability to craft ships or have structures and should only live off captured ships.  I'd just like to see no RvR for pirates, let them live out of free towns, and have the hidden islands, Kidds etc, as their pirate coves that cannot be captured. Personally, I am for pirate on pirate battles.  Before the wipe, I played pirate on EU all the way back to pre release (after ow but before Steam release). One clan I was in was on the pirate KOS list by other clans because some in our clan attacked pirate traders. It was exciting having to watch your back wherever you go.  Unfortunately this mech gets exploited.

Some play pirate for role play purposes. I just like pirates for the freedom.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Pirates are an intriguing group of people, both Sir Walter Raleigh and Sir Francis Drake were subject to allegations of Piracy by His Most Catholic Majesty King Phillip II of Spain even when operating under letters of Marque on behalf of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth I, Ironically both Drake and Raleigh were High Admirals in the fledgling Royal Navy which His Majesty King Henry VIII had founded during his reign.  The argument as whether they were actually Privateers or Pirates was never resolved.

Should Pirates do RVR? Technically they did, they held Kingston Port Royal,  and all of Jamaica for a while, they were certainly active around Montego Bay, they never  actually fought to take them, they sort of drifted in and did not leave until they forced out by increasing numbers of naval ships from the big European navies, after that they worked from any number of small out of the way ports and bays around the Caribbean. Kidds Island is I think an acknowledgement of that practice. The Pirates were never strong enough to take territory from the nations once the military had been established, the lack of Pirate RVR would reflect that, further I would submit that the pirates we have in game are more than proficient at fighting a pirate style war they really do not need RVR. Why would they, they made a good living at commerce raiding and privateering, and now and again threw a big spanner in the works of the European Navies just by their existence, even the Royal Navy found it difficult to find ships to police the Caribbean and fight major wars in the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean against France and Spain, that was before the War of Independence and the war of 1812 against the United States of America.

There is also no record of any Pirate using any ship larger than a Frigate, perhaps not even that big, stories are legion of them using sloops, merchantmen and slave ships (which the Queen Anne's Revenge was originally) always over gunned and over crewed but never well looked after. Yet despite these apparent disadvantages they tied down a significant number of warships  needed elsewhere from all European nations, Despite their reputations they proved to be outstanding seamen, their Captains often were highly intelligent and as well trained as their naval counterparts, the few women that were involved were as brave and as good seamen as most of the male seamen of their day (and considerably better than Jack Rackhams crew on the day they were captured).

In game as I stated earlier the Pirates are proficient enough to fight a pirate style war, in the type of ships their namesakes used, yet Ironically, on Global anyway, it is the French who are fighting more like pirates than the pirates are.

   

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I know players who play pirate that feel pirates should not have the ability to craft ships or have structures and should only live off captured ships.  I'd just like to see no RvR for pirates, let them live out of free towns, and have the hidden islands, Kidds etc, as their pirate coves that cannot be captured. Personally, I am for pirate on pirate battles.  Before the wipe, I played pirate on EU all the way back to pre release (after ow but before Steam release). One clan I was in was on the pirate KOS list by other clans because some in our clan attacked pirate traders. It was exciting having to watch your back wherever you go.  Unfortunately this mech gets exploited.

Some play pirate for role play purposes. I just like pirates for the freedom.

That is all fine and the great thing about this game is no one is stopping some one from playing that type of Pirate or Privateer in any of the nations.  So if that is one person play style why force every one else to play the same.

You seen my post you know I'm not a big fan of pirates being part of the normal conquest and even being able to craft SOL's, but I want a check and balanced system.  If pirates have to give up some things and are still included in the RvR conquest system than Nationals need to give up things too.

This is my biggest argument with folks that say pirates should have this or that, well neither should most nationals.  SOL's should be rare and Naval officers didn't keep every ship they captured. In fact they only commanded one at a time (other than private owned ships).   Captured ships should be a pirate only thing.  To be fair lets say every one can captured 5th rates below but anything 4th rate and above can only be captured by Pirates.  All nationals have to return to port with the ship and turn it into the Admiralty.  They get paid good for it, but they can't keep it. So if we can't have certain things so neither should Nationals.  If a national wants to keep said ships they will be turned Pirates (cause it's an act of piracy).  The same if they are caught in such ships as the Pirate Frigate which should be a pirate only ship (funny I see more nationals in them than pirates these days).  Pirates are limited to only crafting level 1 and 2 shipyards (this is a game after all lets keep it some what fun). The only way for them to gain a SOL is by captured from a National (or other means).  POTBS did this by making these ships PvP ships even when not in PvP zones.  This isn't a problem on our game so any one can attack and take them back if found.  One way to limit SOL on both sides is make them so they can only dock in SOL ports (ports should be split shallow, normal and deep water harbors and you can't dock any ship above the port level in that port).   So that way they can only have their captured SOL's keeped in certain ports.  Kidd's Habour should be the only Pirate owned DEEP water harbor any others should have to be captured.   

 

 They can't have all the cake and eat it too.

2 hours ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Pirates are an intriguing group of people, both Sir Walter Raleigh and Sir Francis Drake were subject to allegations of Piracy by His Most Catholic Majesty King Phillip II of Spain even when operating under letters of Marque on behalf of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth I, Ironically both Drake and Raleigh were High Admirals in the fledgling Royal Navy which His Majesty King Henry VIII had founded during his reign.  The argument as whether they were actually Privateers or Pirates was never resolved.

Should Pirates do RVR? Technically they did, they held Kingston Port Royal,  and all of Jamaica for a while, they were certainly active around Montego Bay, they never  actually fought to take them, they sort of drifted in and did not leave until they forced out by increasing numbers of naval ships from the big European navies, after that they worked from any number of small out of the way ports and bays around the Caribbean. Kidds Island is I think an acknowledgement of that practice. The Pirates were never strong enough to take territory from the nations once the military had been established, the lack of Pirate RVR would reflect that, further I would submit that the pirates we have in game are more than proficient at fighting a pirate style war they really do not need RVR. Why would they, they made a good living at commerce raiding and privateering, and now and again threw a big spanner in the works of the European Navies just by their existence, even the Royal Navy found it difficult to find ships to police the Caribbean and fight major wars in the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean against France and Spain, that was before the War of Independence and the war of 1812 against the United States of America.

There is also no record of any Pirate using any ship larger than a Frigate, perhaps not even that big, stories are legion of them using sloops, merchantmen and slave ships (which the Queen Anne's Revenge was originally) always over gunned and over crewed but never well looked after. Yet despite these apparent disadvantages they tied down a significant number of warships  needed elsewhere from all European nations, Despite their reputations they proved to be outstanding seamen, their Captains often were highly intelligent and as well trained as their naval counterparts, the few women that were involved were as brave and as good seamen as most of the male seamen of their day (and considerably better than Jack Rackhams crew on the day they were captured).

In game as I stated earlier the Pirates are proficient enough to fight a pirate style war, in the type of ships their namesakes used, yet Ironically, on Global anyway, it is the French who are fighting more like pirates than the pirates are.

   

Most Privateers where seen as pirates by one or another nation that they didn't have a LoM with.  Most pirates in history tend to turn to Piracy when there was no war and they weren't sanctioned Privateers.  As soon as a war broke out they get pardons and LoM and some times not even from there own parent nation and they return to proper legal (well in some eyes) Privateering.   

This is why I think Pirates Nation should be changed to a Privateer Faction.  Work more like Merc Units in Mech Warrior Online that can be hired out to Nations (other house factions) through Letters of Marque's.  This should be a clan base function where the clan picks a nation to work for a set time (a week or month would work best as things change).  If it's a low pop nation they get bonus to xp/credits.  Here is clip of the contract page for Merc Units in MWO.  The population of a House decides the bonus you get for working for that house/Nation.  IF the population is to high as you see with the first listing you got -20 to your rewards as that house is the most populated one.  Though you can get up to 30% rewards for the lowest population house if you took contracts from them.  My unit use to pick the lowest houses that where part of the alliance with House Kurita our parent faction backer. When we weren't fighting for one of the lesser houses with an alliance with House Kurita we would work under them, but gain a slight penalty to our credits earned cause they where one of the more popular houses in game.  I think in example below at the time they where the Population 10 house so in the middle so gave no pen or perk to contracting with them.

Than you have your solo players and or clans that don't want to act as privateers.  Those are your Pirates and Outlaws since they don't have a LoM.  Make it so that Privateer/Pirates have only none capture ports.  These will be Freetowns and Pirate Havens.  Kidd's and Mort would be main ones but pick the ports that where known to have pirates work out of them and those are what they can set up shop and use.  While a clan is under a LoM for a nation they can use that nations ports and set up out post, but they can not build in any of them.  They can only build in pirate haven ports.  They are there to fight wars not set up a home after all.   

Pirate/Privateer faction can not be picked at the start of the game, you must become one in game by going pirate.  The game needs a reputation system and you can only return to your parent nation once you get enough reputation back or going another nation through your in game actions.  This will give an in game means to change nations.  Though it takes time and can't be done over night, but still can be done.  The reputation system will be based off your in game kills. If you sink ships from one  nation more than others you will loose reputation from that nation. If another nation is at war with that nation it can actually gain you favor by sinking ships of the nation it's at war with.  So that way you can still keep your national identity.  A Spanish Privateer can sink only British ships and keep favor with Spain, but also gain favor with France that is at war with Brit also. As long as he doesn't sink any french ships that is.

While a clan is under a LoM they will have a tag and carry that nation flag.  Like I would have Cursed  Pirate [BLACK] Sir Texas Sir while I'm not under a LoM shown in OW so you know I'm a Pirate/Outlaw, but as soon as my clan falls under a LoM for lets say Spain, it will change to  Cursed Spain [BLACK] Sir Texas Sir.  Keeping my rank as the pirate rank letting folks know I"m a Privateer for that nation and in battle my ship would have the Spanish flag.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Skully]

We can post walls of sweeping changing that may or may not bring forth a proper Pirate mechanic.

The thing is, we won't agree with the walls we see. And therein lies the first problem. To have any change on Pirates, we need to agree upon the change. Not just the Pirates, but also the Nationalists.

So lets start at the beginning, the words of @admin. 

On 3/25/2015 at 0:20 PM, admin said:

Pirates are not a Nation.

And funnily enough it is true. Pirates are not a Nation, Pirates behave as a Nation.

So why is this?

Well, Pirates have always been considered to be a form of end-game. Yes, some Disney admirers join Pirates and quickly find out, NA isn't as romantic as the movies.

So for the most part it consists of veterans. And what qualities are plenty in veterans, things that mechanics can not bring.

On 9/11/2016 at 8:29 PM, Skully said:

I think the next new officer perk should be "Organize" or "Strategy", because "Social" wasn't enough.

But then why is organization so bloody easy within Pirates? (And don't let @Duncan McFail fool you here into thinking it is hard work.  Because the game does it for him.)

Because it is so damn unrewarding to attack another Pirate. Job well done, some Pirate ships have been killed and nothing gives but loses on the Pirate (Nation) side.

The game tells you: if you want anything, please go gank a National, not a Pirate.

And thus it comes back to reward the right work. If someone wants to lead the Pirates, then he has to come with better rewards. And right now he only has to overcome "0 gold and 0 XP".
I am sure a skilled Pirate leader is willing to accept such a challenge and overcome such a minor obstacle. 

Please let me know which parts you do not agree with.

[Duncan McFail]

11 minutes ago, Skully said:

So lets start at the beginning, the words of @admin. 

And funnily enough it is true. Pirates are not a Nation, Pirates behave as a Nation.

The words you quote are from years in the past. Let's go with something more modern. 

He says "We are not sure yet if we want to split pirates into two groups The Pirate Republic of Nassau under black flag acting as nation and Outlaws – real pirates under red flag of Moody with no Capital." Since we have had no split and we definitely have a capital I'd definitely go with the first option as our representation. We can do everything a nation can do save buying 1st/2nd rate bps/permits from our admiralty. Anyone can say as many times as they want that we're not a nation and I can refer you to one of my daddy's sayings. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. 

As far as changing pirates nationals want to take a lot away and give back very little in turn.

Pirates shouldn't be able to RvR. Okay. Then just pirates get raids that allow us to take everything from the shop, player warehouses, and even player ships.

Pirates shouldn't be able to build any ship above a 5th rate. Okay. Then give us the ability to cap any ship and only us. I mean historically nationals didn't keep their capped prizes. They turned it into the admiralty. Most of the time they were burned or repurposed to another captain. 

The list can go on and on. All of which nationals won't agree is fair. The biggest thing is why would the devs make the change. In a few weeks to a month we'll have 90% of the map turning grey. So if there's an announcement of pirates not being able to have ports in another month or so then what. Turn all pirate ports grey? Each announcement like that kills the player pop. It's basically saying all your work is going down the drain so why bother. Oh and later on at some point we'll go live and everything will be reset. 

[Skully]

On 1/19/2017 at 9:26 AM, admin said:

We are not sure yet if we want to split pirates into two groups The Pirate Republic of Nassau under black flag acting as nation and Outlaws – real pirates under red flag of Moody with no Capital.

Did not come out of the blue. (Or maybe it did. )

We can walk many paths to Rome, but if most players don't follow, we'll arrive in Rome just with the 2 of us.

33 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

All of which nationals won't agree is fair.

I give a shit about fairness and if anybody wants to bring that up as an argument to disagree with the changes then the argument had better be good.

It's unfair that

38 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

nationals want to take a lot away and give back very little in turn.

Yes and Naval Action Open World isn't about fairness.

35 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

historically

Historically there were never this many ships in the Caribbean. How Global looks right now is historically the best representation. Gameplay first, history second.

I can only say sorry to the historians and the re-enacters. The doors should have never been opened to gamers.

[Slim McSauce]

Everyone agrees the pirates shouldn't participate in RVR and should have exclusive PVP content.That just makes the most sense.

Now its up to the community and the devs to figure out how to do it.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Tenet]

Pirate nation in current implementation has way more handicaps than benefits.

It's amusing to see PvP Global players so focused on introducing more handicaps to Pirates while PvP EU have no problem.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Tenet

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Tenet said:

What excuse will all the shit players use for their whining when organized RvR/PvP Pirates join a Nation?

Pirate nation in current implementation has way more handicaps than benefits.

Get a load of this guy, he thinks nations care about RVR as much as the pirates.

RVR is a dead meme, an unfinished feature, a blemish on a reasonable good game.

Taking empty ports is in no way indicative of skill, and most people don't think that's a fun way to spend your time in the game.

Newsflash: All pirates are gonna have to join a nation if they want to RVR in the future.

[Skully]

53 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Pirate nation in current implementation has way more handicaps than benefits.

Curious, as I usually hear the opposite. How are you currently handicapped?

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Skully said:

Curious, as I usually hear the opposite. How are you currently handicapped?

Honestly, we've had this conversation in a different thread and the advantages/disadvantages are up for opinion.

The objective fact of the matter is pirates get the freedom to make the choice, as apposed to nations who have 0 say in the matter.

[Duncan McFail]

3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Honestly, we've had this conversation in a different thread and the advantages/disadvantages are up for opinion.

The objective fact of the matter is pirates get the freedom to make the choice, as apposed to nations who have 0 say in the matter.

You should start a thread on it with a poll. I'd love to see nationals get that same mechanic. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Duncan McFail said:

You should start a thread on it with a poll. I'd love to see nationals get that same mechanic. 

I would but it should be a given from a design standpoint. Pirates should get their exclusive content, but nation infighting between clans shouldn't be one of them, especially in the clan focused RVR direction the devs are going.