My terrible experience as a newb

[Capitalism Kills]

i joined two weeks ago and i have had a pretty terrible experience. I've played 206 hours, was getting into the trading and combat groove and had 9,600/10,000 experience. Over the last 2 days, i can't even leave my capital port (France Port Royal) without being ganked. I now have no resources and lost thousands of logs just trying to do the most passive benign activity possible. After investing millions in ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc, I am dead broke, have basically no ships, and all of my progress is completely wasted. When I begged for help from my nation, they basically told me to switch to another nation...I had all this vacation time (why i have 200 hours)  to start a new game and there is no way I have the time to start over. I just wanted to share this because i know there are lots of experienced players that love this game, and I'm a HC vet of the early WOW years and FFXIV, and there is no faster way to let a game die than having a terrible experience for new players like I am having. I am helpless, resourceless, and can't even grab an oak log to build a trader's lynx without dying. It is super duper unfun. I am certain i am not the only one, and something big has to change with the helplessness otherwise you will lose most new players, and there is just no way to retain a game like that. 

[Captain Lust]

This game is bleeding new players like no other game i have ever played... The first mistake you made was to stay at your nations capital to build up... you should have moved to some more quiet zone. They had the rookie zone in the bahama region with rookie capitals at one point but scratched that for whatever reason.

[Mrdoomed]

22 minutes ago, raudy5 said:

i joined two weeks ago and i have had a pretty terrible experience. I've played 206 hours, was getting into the trading and combat groove and had 9,600/10,000 experience. Over the last 2 days, i can't even leave my capital port (France Port Royal) without being ganked. I now have no resources and lost thousands of logs just trying to do the most passive benign activity possible. After investing millions in ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc, I am dead broke, have basically no ships, and all of my progress is completely wasted. When I begged for help from my nation, they basically told me to switch to another nation...I had all this vacation time (why i have 200 hours)  to start a new game and there is no way I have the time to start over. I just wanted to share this because i know there are lots of experienced players that love this game, and I'm a HC vet of the early WOW years and FFXIV, and there is no faster way to let a game die than having a terrible experience for new players like I am having. I am helpless, resourceless, and can't even grab an oak log to build a trader's lynx without dying. It is super duper unfun. I am certain i am not the only one, and something big has to change with the helplessness otherwise you will lose most new players, and there is just no way to retain a game like that. 

Should have read the steams reviews. They are all negitive now. This game is no fun for new or veteran players and is now just a playground for epeen, exploit and self indulgence.....well and a few hold outs wishing it was better. 

If you like empty meaningless port battles and ganks you will love this game, if not its a waste.

[Vernon Merrill]

36 minutes ago, raudy5 said:

i joined two weeks ago and i have had a pretty terrible experience. I've played 206 hours, was getting into the trading and combat groove and had 9,600/10,000 experience. Over the last 2 days, i can't even leave my capital port (France Port Royal) without being ganked. I now have no resources and lost thousands of logs just trying to do the most passive benign activity possible. After investing millions in ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc, I am dead broke, have basically no ships, and all of my progress is completely wasted. When I begged for help from my nation, they basically told me to switch to another nation...I had all this vacation time (why i have 200 hours)  to start a new game and there is no way I have the time to start over. I just wanted to share this because i know there are lots of experienced players that love this game, and I'm a HC vet of the early WOW years and FFXIV, and there is no faster way to let a game die than having a terrible experience for new players like I am having. I am helpless, resourceless, and can't even grab an oak log to build a trader's lynx without dying. It is super duper unfun. I am certain i am not the only one, and something big has to change with the helplessness otherwise you will lose most new players, and there is just no way to retain a game like that. 

This could be helpful....

What, exactly, do you think the game mechanics should provide for preventing your experience?

 

 

EDIT:  If you already have shipyard/workshop/buildings, it seems to me that you just might be cash-strapped...  You have those tangible assets that can and will provide income...  also, many people will buy labor hours if you have some accrued...

Otherwise, yes, you'll have to do it the old fashioned way...  grab a cutter and do some missions or cap some traders and sell the goods you cant use for crafting items to sell...

Or you could join a clan?

 

Just throwing out some ideas that hopefully might help...

Edited August 3, 2017 by Vernon Merrill

[Captain Lust]

3 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

well and a few hold outs wishing it was better. 

I know you're talking about me...

[Macjimm]

Raudy,

thanks for posting.  Very informative.  You logged in an average of 14 hrs per day.   Big investment of your time.   You seem to be very ambitious.  I can't suggest a solution that would meet your expectations. but am sorry to hear that you lost so much of your earnings.  I would donate some gold to you but I'm afraid it would be too little to have an effect.  (I do not have millions).  

Thanks for letting us know.  I had no idea that players would be so dedicated to the game.

[Liq]

What happened to the idea of rookie zones? Other games give starters immunity for the first steps, but as this is not possible here due to alts, other ways have to be found.
Why exactly were the Bahamas Rookie zones erased? Right now they're not serving anything (on EU at least), they got #Swerged, in a ScrambleForPiratePorts action.

[HarryButpain]

if you attack an AI of your own nation, you'll become a pirate. If you start an outpost in a freetown and transport all your stuff there, you'll keep it even when pirate. Next to the sail button when you're in port, do you see there any redeemables like forged papers right next to 'sail'? I currently have two, so maybe you have some, too?

Edited August 3, 2017 by HarryButpain

[Sven Silberbart]

It is very good to post this thread. I hope the devs pays attention on that. The last patch with the super warp broke every kind of home defence, so much of the veterans started their hunt against the enemies. This players are not the problem. It is ok to fight your nations enemies in all ways the game allows. But the game mechanic should give the defendes of their waters a chance to counter that. Espacially new player, but also experienced players wich lost much, need to have an area to regenerate. Otherwise the players come, get ganked some times and remove game from hdd. A situation nobody wants here.

[Capitalism Kills]

6 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

This could be helpful....

What, exactly, do you think the game mechanics should provide for preventing your experience?

Although asking a newb how to fix something is like asking someone failing physics to rewrite the textbook, I do have some general observations. 

1. The point of entry should be much, much lower. (start at level 20 crafting, make all 5th rates available from npc vendors, make consumables available from npcs, etc.)

2. Come up with some way to penalize nations who neglect or ignore their home port. 

3. Let everyone below a certain rank put up a flag (not unlike contraband) that makes them unable to be attacked. Level 1-3 shouldn't haev to worry about being annihilated immediately on day one by a maxed out HC. I don't know any game that allows this in newb zones. Another way to accomplish this is to make NPC fleets agressive...very aggressive in and around home island. Kind of like how some MMOs have guards that are maxed out elites, and unless you get every single HC on your country to attack at once, you stay away (just from that little zone.)

4. I'm new, what the hell do i know. But I'll bet 50 bucks someone will come along and tear all these ideas (OF A NEWB) to shreds. Such is life. 

[Macjimm]

4 minutes ago, raudy5 said:

3.  Another way to accomplish this is to make NPC fleets agressive...very aggressive in and around home island. Kind of like how some MMOs have guards that are maxed out elites, and unless you get every single HC on your country to attack at once, you stay away (just from that little zone.)

Sounds like a reasonable suggestion.   Always wondered about this myself.  If I am within sight of my capital will the NPC fleets (of my own nation) ignore a battle in which I am being ganked? Seems like the friendly NPC fleets that are close by should jump in and help me if I get attacked.  Perhaps they do.

[seanjo]

45 minutes ago, raudy5 said:

i joined two weeks ago and i have had a pretty terrible experience. I've played 206 hours, was getting into the trading and combat groove and had 9,600/10,000 experience. Over the last 2 days, i can't even leave my capital port (France Port Royal) without being ganked. I now have no resources and lost thousands of logs just trying to do the most passive benign activity possible. After investing millions in ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc, I am dead broke, have basically no ships, and all of my progress is completely wasted. When I begged for help from my nation, they basically told me to switch to another nation...I had all this vacation time (why i have 200 hours)  to start a new game and there is no way I have the time to start over. I just wanted to share this because i know there are lots of experienced players that love this game, and I'm a HC vet of the early WOW years and FFXIV, and there is no faster way to let a game die than having a terrible experience for new players like I am having. I am helpless, resourceless, and can't even grab an oak log to build a trader's lynx without dying. It is super duper unfun. I am certain i am not the only one, and something big has to change with the helplessness otherwise you will lose most new players, and there is just no way to retain a game like that. 

You managed to invest millions and buildings after just two weeks? it sounds like you were doing fine...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, seanjo said:

You managed to invest millions and buildings after just two weeks? it sounds like you were doing fine...

I know right. He made stupid choices and ran out of money, but he has millions in assets. 

[Macjimm]

Just now, seanjo said:

You managed to invest millions and buildings after just two weeks? it sounds like you were doing fine...

I just made my first mil this morning.   Typically make 60k on selling Trade Hours or a bit more on trade runs.  I usually manage to flee when I get ganked.

[Prater]

24 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Sounds like a reasonable suggestion.   Always wondered about this myself.  If I am within sight of my capital will the NPC fleets (of my own nation) ignore a battle in which I am being ganked? Seems like the friendly NPC fleets that are close by should jump in and help me if I get attacked.  Perhaps they do.

We already tried this in 2015.  It resulted in people going to the capitals for the sake of having massive battles against ai 1st rates and leveling up and getting a bunch of gold quickly.  Other mechanics are different now, so maybe the results will be different, but back then it didn't help out the situation but made it worse because more and more would flock to enemy capitals to grind ai.  It might solve the current issue, but it could very well introduce a bigger problem like it did back then.

23 minutes ago, seanjo said:

You managed to invest millions and buildings after just two weeks? it sounds like you were doing fine...

He does seem to have more hard assets than I do after 1-2 months of playing after the wipe.  My suggestion would be to use a cutter, privateer, or pickle to capture a bunch of lone ai lgvs.  Sell the lgvs to the port for 30k gold each and the cargo for 5-20k each.  But I would agree new player need some kind of immunity or flag as long as they are Master and Commander Rank (240 crew) or lower and less than 2 weeks old and in a 5-7 rate (if you go over any of these, you lose protection status immediately).  Make it so only other new players can attack them.

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Prater

[Corona Lisa]

Maybe make ships up to 5th rates cheap. It doesnt fix the noob ganking problem but it would turn down the frustration because replacing those ships wouldnt be a big problem anymore.

 

And crafting levels need a change too, its hard for new player without connection to anyone to find a crafter for a ship for a reasonable price. So you could give all players some basic blueprints for some ships (frigate, cerberus, mercury).

Edited August 3, 2017 by Jon Snow lets go

[Archaos]

As others have said the OP seems to have been quite successful at the initial grind and building up cash/ships/buildings, the only mistake he appears to have made is remaining in the starting capital zone. Many raiders will leave newbies alone (although some do seal club), but once he ranked up a bit it looks like he has become a target and it dosent take long to eat through your money if you lose a few ships. The only advice I would give is to move out of the capital starting zone as soon as possible.

[Tac]

1 hour ago, raudy5 said:

i joined two weeks ago and i have had a pretty terrible experience. I've played 206 hours, was getting into the trading and combat groove and had 9,600/10,000 experience. Over the last 2 days, i can't even leave my capital port (France Port Royal) without being ganked. I now have no resources and lost thousands of logs just trying to do the most passive benign activity possible. After investing millions in ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc, I am dead broke, have basically no ships, and all of my progress is completely wasted. When I begged for help from my nation, they basically told me to switch to another nation...I had all this vacation time (why i have 200 hours)  to start a new game and there is no way I have the time to start over. I just wanted to share this because i know there are lots of experienced players that love this game, and I'm a HC vet of the early WOW years and FFXIV, and there is no faster way to let a game die than having a terrible experience for new players like I am having. I am helpless, resourceless, and can't even grab an oak log to build a trader's lynx without dying. It is super duper unfun. I am certain i am not the only one, and something big has to change with the helplessness otherwise you will lose most new players, and there is just no way to retain a game like that. 

I know many new players in the Dutch nation feel your pain sir, why are the more experienced players not helping you in your situation around the capital?

Well in my experience people go to the dutch capital in fir fir ganking squads looking for people just like you and they find people just like you,they don't come to fight they come to run and the current game mechanics give them all the help they need,spent an hour again chasing cops and robbers style last night to catch a british connie and it was about as satisfying as painting a wall.

If People go to hunt near a capital they should be expecting a fight and they should get one,now you can just go to kill the inexperienced and sail back again without a worry in the world,as a predator i can tell you it's as unsatisfactory for us as it is for you.

Everybody loses.

 

[Fritz Hermann]

37 minutes ago, raudy5 said:

3. Let everyone below a certain rank put up a flag (not unlike contraband) that makes them unable to be attacked. Level 1-3 shouldn't haev to worry about being annihilated immediately on day one by a maxed out HC. I don't know any game that allows this in newb zones. Another way to accomplish this is to make NPC fleets agressive...very aggressive in and around home island. Kind of like how some MMOs have guards that are maxed out elites, and unless you get every single HC on your country to attack at once, you stay away (just from that little zone.)

I'm all sympathy with you. Even veterans players left the game.

About your point 3, the first thing that comes to my mind is the use of alts. I don't remember if it was tested before, but giving immunity to low levels might be abused by alts account.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Captain Lust said:

This game is bleeding new players like no other game i have ever played... The first mistake you made was to stay at your nations capital to build up... you should have moved to some more quiet zone. They had the rookie zone in the bahama region with rookie capitals at one point but scratched that for whatever reason.

The problem is he joined a smaller nation on the front line of combat.  There is literally ZERO information for a new player to go on in choosing a nation.  

So if they were to start new now on Global and went United States, which is said to be "easy difficulty", they would be curb stomped into the ground because they are camped by pirates and have a small player base and even less support from those few who are there out of fear of alt spy accounts.

Even the rookie zone in the Bahamas was a joke, more vets camped that then noobs sailed in that region ever.  Even I camped that region on the EU server because of the number of vets there. 

 

In short.

@admin if you would read this, take this from this post.

GIVE NATION POPULATION INFORMATION ON LOGIN!

[Prater]

1 minute ago, Fritz Hermann said:

I'm all sympathy with you. Even veterans players left the game.

About your point 3, the first thing that comes to my mind is the use of alts. I don't remember if it was tested before, but giving immunity to low levels might be abused by alts account.

Yes, it might, but those would be exceptions, because once the account has 2 weeks time, post captain or above, it loses new status.  So, if you want to keep shelling out more money for more alt accounts, I guess you can do this, but it will cost a lot of rl money and what would be the point?  Just to kill new players?  Seems like a real lousy investment of time and money to me.

[Jean Ribault]

IMO, 206 hours of gameplay and millions invested in "ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc" is not a newb.  After 50 hours of gameplay most players should be able to sail, trade, win all equal battles against AI, chat, and understand pvp battle mechanics.  Maybe less.  At that point you are experienced.  Archaos is right about moving, the OP says there are outposts, so those would be a better choice to settle.  I agree, you should move operations.

Still the whole point of the post is exactly right about new players.  This issue could kill the game as quick as they are getting killed in-game.  I thought I remembered a retort from the devs that said something like since they have plenty of new purchases of the game they aren't worried about people leaving.  I hope that's not the case.

I'd like to see the newb zone return in a limited area of the map.

....oh and also the idea above about not allowing lower level players to be attacked (with their flag on) is a great idea.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Prater]

10 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

IMO, 206 hours of gameplay and millions invested in "ships, outposts, buildings shipyard workshop etc" is not a newb.  After 50 hours of gameplay most players should be able to sail, trade, win all equal battles against AI, chat, and understand pvp battle mechanics.  Maybe less.  At that point you are experienced.  Archaos is right about moving, the OP says there are outposts, so those would be a better choice to settle.  I agree, you should move operations.

Still the whole point of the post is exactly right about new players.  This issue could kill the game as quick as they are getting killed in-game.  I thought I remembered a retort from the devs that said something like since they have plenty of new purchases of the game they aren't worried about people leaving.  I hope that's not the case.

I'd like to see the newb zone return in a limited area of the map.

....oh and also the idea above about not allowing lower level players to be attacked (with their flag on) is a great idea.

The point about players leaving were players who had thousands of hours in game.  They weren't worried about that because it is natural in this modern era with a lot of distractions and options you lose interest after time, and their argument was that such players had already got their full worth in Naval Action.  I mean, I guess I see the point?  After all, I think I've paid less than 2 cents for every hour I have in game.  My alt account has paid 20 cents for each hour.  That's a pretty good value for entertainment.  On the other hand, they have always expressed worry about new players leaving the game and desire to fix the reasons why.  The possible coming clan wars is built on that worry.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Prater

[Archaos]

11 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The problem is he joined a smaller nation on the front line of combat.  There is literally ZERO information for a new player to go on in choosing a nation.  

So if they were to start new now on Global and went United States, which is said to be "easy difficulty", they would be curb stomped into the ground because they are camped by pirates and have a small player base and even less support from those few who are there out of fear of alt spy accounts.

Even the rookie zone in the Bahamas was a joke, more vets camped that then noobs sailed in that region ever.  Even I camped that region on the EU server because of the number of vets there. 

 

In short.

@admin if you would read this, take this from this post.

GIVE NATION POPULATION INFORMATION ON LOGIN!

But wouldnt this only serve to funnel more people to the larger nations to avoid being on the front line of a small nation?

[Capitalism Kills]

15 minutes ago, Tac said:

I know many new players in the Dutch nation feel your pain sir, why are the more experienced players not helping you in your situation around the capital?

Well in my experience people go to the dutch capital in fir fir ganking squads looking for people just like you and they find people just like you,they don't come to fight they come to run and the current game mechanics give them all the help they need,spent an hour again chasing cops and robbers style last night to catch a british connie and it was about as satisfying as painting a wall.

If People go to hunt near a capital they should be expecting a fight and they should get one,now you can just go to kill the inexperienced and sail back again without a worry in the world,as a predator i can tell you it's as unsatisfactory for us as it is for you.

Everybody loses.

 

Something I hadn't considered, this is a great post.