Fixing the Pirate "nation"

[James Bennett]

I have a few suggestions for fixing the pirate nations. First off, a little bit about me, the most recent wipe will have been the 3Rd wipe I've been through. My first outing as a player was on the pve server getting my sea legs. Soon after I transferred over to global to start sinking players! I'm not by any stretch an expert at pvp and I rarely participate in rvr as I find it rather boring so take the following observations and suggestions for what they're worth.

1. The Pirates as a "national power" is simply absurd. How this managed to make its way in to a game rooted in so much realism is simply beyond me. This should not and can not be. As it stands, smaller nations act more as pirates (or privateers if you rather) than the Pirates do themselves. They should be based around open world pvp with the occasional sack of a town here and there. 

- Suggestions: 

- Pirates should be a faction based solely around pvp where only the most veteran players find success and Profit, thus pirates should receive higher rewards for capturing and or sinking ships. Furthermore pirates should also receive a significantly higher sell price for ships back to the port. To offset this, pirate pve missions should remain open and visible for the duration of the mission, as any ship being attacked would certainly be signaling frantically for help while being attacked. Player engagement timers are fine the way they are. Other national factions should receive a slight buff in income of pve missions, and a significant buff in income from sinking pirate players as they are a scourge on the open seas. (maybe also receive a slight buff to income for sinking war targets if the alliance system were to come back, which I think it should, pirates would not be able to participate in diplomacy)

2. Pirates should neither be able to capture nor lose ports. 

- Suggestions: pirates should not be holding regional capitals, that's absurd. Instead the Pirates should have a total of 4-6 ports spread across the map from which to base out of, free towns would be a good idea, they would also be the only faction able to teleport between free towns so they may move around and plunder different areas with impunity. Raising hostility would do 2 things. First stolen or contraband good would be produced only in ports that the Pirates have raised hostility in. The goods would be extremely cheap and have very high sell prices in other portions of the map which does 2 things, brings more traders to the are where the hostility is raised and offer more gentle players in the pirate nation a valuable trade good to generate cash. The amount of these goods available should reflect the amount of hostility in the region. Another interesting thing would be to raise pvp rewards for killing pirates where the hostility is above a certain percentage. The weight of said goods should reflect the value. Should the Pirates set a port battle, the port battle should be a "raid". If the Pirates succeed in the raid, they should hold the port for 3 days after which it reverts back to its original nationality prior to the raid. After the port reverts, the port can not gain hostility for a week and the hostility will drop x amount per day back to 0 before the 7 days has elapsed. During the occupation, pirates receive a 25% discount on all resources in the port both npc and player contract items. This could extend to ships on sale as well. Pirates also would have free repairs and crew replacement in the port during the occupation. 

3. Pirates in lineships

-Suggestions: pirates should be limited to the construction of a level 2 shipyard. With a discount on the amount  resources for crafting 5th and 6th rates. I would say that pirates should have no access to lineships at all but I feel that would take out a lot of fun for the faction, perhaps pirates sailing a sol would suffer speed, reload, and maneuverability penalties. National powers should receive a discount on the crafting of 1St, 2ND, and 3Rd rates. These discounts would also vary a slight amount based on the amount of regions held by the nation.

4. Victory marks

Suggestions: since pirates would have no way of obtaining victory marks, I think a variant of the conquest mark system should be implemented. Once a region reaches 100% hostility, pirates should get an injection of x amount of combat marks instantly, however only players that get a certain percent of the hostility will receive them. Also, if the port battle is won they should receive x amount of additional combat marks each day the port is in their possession which would again apply to only the players present at the pb. This would hopefully encourage the Pirates to open up multiple fronts against multiple nations. 

These are a few of my suggestions and ideas. Let me know what you think.

Edited July 28, 2017 by James Bennett

[Aussie Pastor]

+1

But I would add that they are limited to the amount of Crew, to only 500.

But saying that they can have an automatic crew boost to all their sailing ships.

Also, they should be allowed to "sack' non regional capitals.

That would be 4th Rates and bellow.

Each port then will be out of bounds for the defending nation for 1 week.

This would be like taking Flatts in Bermuda instead of St George's.

Plus while it's in their control, they can get EVERYTHING at 25% the cost.

But Remember, the other 2 Ports are still owned by the Home Nation, so they can still attack the Pirate plunder fleets.

 

I would also bring in a LOM, a "letter of Marquee" into the game for the Rats as a slight compensation for not having to play with SOLs.

Thats just a start.

i

[Slim McSauce]

+1 with the addition of a privateering option to allow the temporarily work for a nation of their choice

[Anne Wildcat]

I kind of like @Slamdz idea. Get rid of pirate nation, but allow national players to chose to go pirate. They can attack & be attacked by anyone, they can use ports of their home nation, including building structures I think, but cannot participate in port battles.

Then add a unique outlaw class that lives out of Freetowns, cannot build ships, just lives off of captured ships and loot, and also is limited to 1, maybe 2, outposts at most. This idea was I think @The Red Dukes.  Although it is easy enough to role play this in game. 

[Aussie Pastor]

7 minutes ago, Rickard said:

 I agree with the first 2 suggestions but I do however think that also pirates should be allowed to own all ships in the game only thing is that they can't craft them and can only get them by capturing them from other nations.

Sorry, but no, if a Pirate did get their hand on a SOL it would be ganked by every Privateer, Pirate and Nations out there, even his own crew would sell out their own Captian for Gold, Girls and Grog.

So in game, it would be unsailable due to only having 500 max crew.

But they could sell it or scrap it for parts.....with bonuses of course.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Pirate crews flock to successful pirate captains.

The higher the share per crewman, the more want to sign-up for a cruise.

[Aussie Pastor]

3 minutes ago, Rickard said:

I don't think pirates should only have 500 crew,  and it's not my concern what pirates do to each other after all if this idea gets it into the game the pirates would only have Mortimer town and all free ports to work from.

So freind, what then separates Pirates from Sovereign Nations of the can have more Crew?

Ok then, follow your premise, the Pirate player that can only build up to 4th rate as the original post say due to the restricted shipyard at level 2, gets his Alt to buy or somehow gets a Bellona or Bucc.

Why then would you want to be a Sovereign Nation?

Lets all play Pirates for its better than the restriction on the Nations.

We got to have pluses and minuses for what you play.

Pirates, it's all about the plunder.

Sovereign Nations is all about the expansion of Ports, so SOL PBs are then only.

If no variation at all, well lets go full Arcade Style NA Legends.

 

[Aussie Pastor]

5 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Pirate crews flock to successful pirate captains.

The higher the share per crewman, the more want to sign-up for a cruise.

True for only one problem, there Inate ability to psychological and morale values made them extremely paranoid.

Also when numbers got to high they took on there on Prize as their own.

So as the saying goes it was like herding feral cats when the numbers grew high.

[Budgie Smuggler]

Didn't you watch Black Sails? Pirates were a nation.

But yeah those pirates are a real problem on global.  Instead of trying to compete in the game lets get on the forums and try to nerf them out instead.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Pastor said:

True for only one problem, there Inate ability to psychological and morale values made them extremely paranoid.

Also when numbers got to high they took on there on Prize as their own.

So as the saying goes it was like herding feral cats when the numbers grew high.

It was like that, mostly in seond half of the 17th C. Let's completely forget of the "war on the world" anglo saxon era of "last of the free republics", it is a decade only when compared to centuries of "sea rover" culture.

Plus with dynamic crew affiliation by success Pirates wouldn't have to pay for crew like navy does.

All pirates would have to do is to have success. No ranks, no maximum. 

[William Livingston Alden]

[Aussie Pastor]

16 minutes ago, Budgie Smuggler said:

Didn't you watch Black Sails? Pirates were a nation.

But yeah those pirates are a real problem on global.  Instead of trying to compete in the game lets get on the forums and try to nerf them out instead.

Yes very helpful, in the topic.

I would go Pirate in a heartbeat, if they became a faction, with the above restrictions and bonuses.

But the mechanics of the game has always treated them as a Nation that can do PB and sail SOLs.

So you want to call it "nerf" I call it liberating!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

4 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Pirates should be hardcore, but in the same time there should be factors making their hunting easier like some speed bonus, morale / boarding, maybe ship outfit - as we know pirates loved to put mooore guns on captured ships Press Gang to take control over enemy crew that wants to join aboard pirates, yarr.

Majority of pirate refits were to actually carry more crew. Full flush from bow to stern. They had immense difficulties with cannon as they fitted what they could salvage and given the bore measurements were not unified getting proper shot for each gun. Swivels were way easier to get and more useful for capture ( main pyracy activity ).

As a compromise they get the "boarding" bonuses given main occupation is to capture or else no shares for the crew and crew walks away at port and crew number decreases... 

[Budgie Smuggler]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Pastor said:

Yes very helpful, in the topic.

I would go Pirate in a heartbeat, if they became a faction, with the above restrictions and bonuses.

But the mechanics of the game has always treated them as a Nation that can do PB and sail SOLs.

So you want to call it "nerf" I call it liberating!

Heaven forbid they can do PB's and sail Sol's. Such sin.

Liberating says the US player.  the whole post is about nerf and QQ (notice every poster is from global and none of them are pirates ofc).  Guess we'll see you at the next lineship pb in your 5th rate doing some 'liberating' to show the pirates what they are missing out on. Can't wait for that.

[Aussie Pastor]

1 minute ago, Budgie Smuggler said:

Heaven forbid they can do PB's and sail Sol's. Such sin.

Liberating says the US player.  the whole post is about nerf and QQ (notice every poster is from global and none of them are pirates ofc).  Guess we'll see you at the next lineship pb in your 5th rate doing some 'liberating' to show the pirates what they are missing out on. Can't wait for that.

I started playing the Brits in Nov 15, then played with the Dutch around March 16.

Like I said I would play the Rats if it was centered on hardcore OW PVP in Frigates with the above mentioned imporment.

I played PotBS as a Naval Officer, but then went Privateer for I enjoyed the OW PVP more.

So please stop ASSUMING this is a reaction to what ever is happening now, Pre Steam Release guys know that I have ALWAYS had the concern about the game mechanics around Nations and Pirates.

Plus your passive aggressive comment about "Such sin" is uncalled for.

But staying with that undertone......I forgive you!!!

 

 

[Grundal]

The RAT clan on PvP Global only raids trades and who*3s.  And not in that order.  We are small and we raid trading and hunt muricans.

Pirates should not be a national power.  They should only be....well pirates.  With a separate mechanics - some discussed above others in separate posts.

magoo

[Prater]

How have you been through a 3rd wipe when 3 wipes back there was no pve server?  

Naval Action Wipes:  
Pre Sea Trials (November 2014).  (servers:  can't choose)
Sea Trials (March-May 2015). (servers:  can't choose)
First OW Wipe:  Sept 2015 (servers:  pvp)
Pre Early Access Wipe (Jan 2016). (servers:  pve, pvp1, pvp2,pvp3)
Early Access Wipe 1:  May 2017 (servers pve, pvp eu, pvp global)

 

Otherwise I generally agree with the OP.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Prater

[James Bennett]

20 minutes ago, Budgie Smuggler said:

Heaven forbid they can do PB's and sail Sol's. Such sin.

Liberating says the US player.  the whole post is about nerf and QQ (notice every poster is from global and none of them are pirates ofc).  Guess we'll see you at the next lineship pb in your 5th rate doing some 'liberating' to show the pirates what they are missing out on. Can't wait for that.

Look man, there's no need to be salty, and no, there no QQ here. These are suggestions due to the nature of the pirate faction. The Pirates are inherently pvp based. As such, the have a much higher propensity to have large concentrations of very high quality pvpers. I say let them be that. The Pirates have said over and over on global that if they get a good fight outside the PB they won't even go in. These are simply suggestions to cater to exactly that attitude. If these ideas were taken seriously these could fix most if not all the qq on the server. The Pirates get to roll around like a death squad and flip as many ports as they like and beat down people in PBS, and nations don't have to worry about being 1 ported by anyone besides players of like caliber in other nations. 

[James Bennett]

4 minutes ago, Prater said:

How have you been through a 3rd wipe when 3 wipes back there was no pve server?  

Naval Action Wipes:  
Pre Sea Trials (November 2014).  (servers:  can't choose)
Sea Trials (March-May 2015). (servers:  can't choose)
First OW Wipe:  Sept 2015 (servers:  pvp)
Pre Early Access Wipe (Jan 2016). (servers:  pve, pvp1, pvp2,pvp3)
Early Access Wipe 1:  May 2017 (servers pve, pvp eu, pvp global)

 

Otherwise I generally agree with the OP.

I may have gotten my facts slightly off, my apologies heh

[James Bennett]

I'd love to hear what @koltes @Duncan McFail or @Sir Texas Sir have to say about these ideas. And fine @Willis PVP2

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Best experience as Pirate was having only MT and not giving a rat. Living off the land maximizing loot winnings and limiting losses. Crew was ( at a later stage ) 500 per head.

[James Bennett]

Edited OP to account for earning victory marks.

[Guest]

As I see the pirates they are the possibility to get another kind of NA experience. Port battles, SoL, nationwide efforts - all these can be experienced elsewhere. The pirates ought to be able to attack everyone and everything but be limited to 5th rates and below. The RvR experience can be had in one of the other factions. Another thing I believe is needed is the ability to switch between ones nation and pirates and back again.

[Hodo]

Pirates should be like this....

-No national chat, you are a pirate not a nation.

-No national ports, Pirates shouldnt control any regions.

-You operate out of free ports

-No shipyards over level 2.

-No cannon foundries.  

-You can teleport between free towns.

-1 free fleet perk.

 

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, The Red Duke said:

Best experience as Pirate was having only MT and not giving a rat. Living off the land maximizing loot winnings and limiting losses. Crew was ( at a later stage ) 500 per head.

This is the way NA was meant to be played. 

Go pirate if you want to experience the true NA, no more one porting, no more limitations on who you can gank, no more pesking brass always asking you to hand over your captain's logs. Everything is fair game, to you and your clan (if ye choose)

Don't fight for an arbitrary nation, fight for yeself and for ye mates! Join Pirate!

#OneForAll