why bringing ship capture back?

[John Cavanaugh]

if captured ships have the same qualities as the basic cutter - cannot initiate pvp, cannot explode with force, etc - their ability to be used as troll ships would be at least reduced. while they might be seen in screening attempts - there would by necessity be at least some crafted ships. Provided that like the basic cutter they have a value of 0 gold and are worthless for breaking down - they would have a minimal effect on the economy. They would still be useful in pvp - but could not be used as such without at least some risk in the way of cannon cost and the initial tagging ships. this would be an effective middle ground, no? and moreover - as demonstrated by the "basic ships cannot start pvp" message - the necessary code is already written. simply tag captured ships as basic with a minor denotation in their description and all will be well.

[Guest]

4th rates are too high for capturing. Other than that this change is irrelevant as the price of npc ships is so low anyways it is almost free. 

Trader market is doomed too.

[John Cavanaugh]

3 minutes ago, Flinch said:

4th rates are too high for capturing. Other than that this change is irrelevant as the price of npc ships is so low anyways it is almost free. 

Trader market is doomed too.

as someone who spends a fair bit of his day pursuing traders - which is more difficult to capture? the fir/fir LGV or the oak/crewspace Tbrig? in a surprise, both have a distinct advantage on a straight run downwind, and the LGV requires either an especially good tag pinning him against the land, or a long hour of slowly maneuvering to maximize the use of staysails in a long slow chase. the Tbrig? although its point of sail is superior it is far to slow, and will be caught quickly. if you raid in the dutch waters, many of the better traders have learned this - and use well equipped LGVs as sprint traders - not one of them will, i expect, sacrifice their cargo in order to use a cheap oak/crewspace LGV which would in all likelihood cost them far more than the cost of a good trader.

[Wind Catcher]

34 minutes ago, z4ys said:

yeah but instead of leaving while its so called hardcore people would leave because they would get trolled and griefted.

And when you get everything placed in your mouth then the game is boring as hell. Going out rageboard and have a new ship isnt an achivement.

I do not think going and fighting NPC is something that is put into your mouth. It's earned. Player spent time fighting and he should be able to take the ship is he needs it. That same player will then provide you with action and a nice fight. Like I said it before, it's all in Developers hands and I hope they make good decisions on their own and do not follow this forum.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Wind Catcher

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

9 minutes ago, Wind Catcher said:

it's all in Developers hands and I hope they make good decisions

Yep. Whatever they are

[Captain MiniMe]

11 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

as someone who spends a fair bit of his day pursuing traders - which is more difficult to capture? the fir/fir LGV or the oak/crewspace Tbrig? in a surprise, both have a distinct advantage on a straight run downwind, and the LGV requires either an especially good tag pinning him against the land, or a long hour of slowly maneuvering to maximize the use of staysails in a long slow chase. the Tbrig? although its point of sail is superior it is far to slow, and will be caught quickly. if you raid in the dutch waters, many of the better traders have learned this - and use well equipped LGVs as sprint traders - not one of them will, i expect, sacrifice their cargo in order to use a cheap oak/crewspace LGV which would in all likelihood cost them far more than the cost of a good trader.

Most traders have adapted this technique indeed. It's brilliant to sail past pirates and privateers with 3 LGV's and know they'll never catch you. 

Best feeling in the world. 

Got tagged once even by a lucky sailer whilst doing one of those infamous AFK trader runs. Heard the sound switch from OW to Battle.
Noticed he did an amazing tag, right behind me, he managed to destroy lots of sail, I did a repair and outran him easy on the wind. It was glorious.

[Hodo]

15 hours ago, Quineloe said:

I'm pretty sure if you were to put this to a poll, you'd get like 95% disagree. 6th rates and below are not interesting to most players.

It's just fifth rates. Those ships were so abundantly common back in the day, it's perfectly valid for them to be the main PVP ships of high level players.

This is because entitled kids want to use the biggest things they can get, and they want them for free.  Because their whole lives they have been given trophies just for showing up.

Well sorry life is hard and if they want to be a frigate captain, then they need to work for it.

3 hours ago, Wind Catcher said:

To all those who are saying do not bring free ships back. Check Steam rating and read reviews. It is 'Mostly Negative' with people complaining about long grind, everything is too expensive and takes too much time, so keep fighting here while game is being rated with thumbs down. I believe free NPC ships up to 4th rate is a must. 

This is because of a complete and absolute failure on the developers part on advertising.   

You chose a name like Naval Action, which implies an arena based sailing combat game.   Your videos show EXACTLY that, and nothing else.   Then your main page is pretty outdated information.    

Most people on Steam will not read anything past the title and watch the promo videos.  If they aren't flashy gameplay vids with lots of action, they will skip and move on.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Hodo said:

This is because entitled kids want to use the biggest things they can get, and they want them for free.  Because their whole lives they have been given trophies just for showing up.

Well sorry life is hard and if they want to be a frigate captain, then they need to work for it.

This is because of a complete and absolute failure on the developers part on advertising.   

You chose a name like Naval Action, which implies an arena based sailing combat game.   Your videos show EXACTLY that, and nothing else.   Then your main page is pretty outdated information.    

Most people on Steam will not read anything past the title and watch the promo videos.  If they aren't flashy gameplay vids with lots of action, they will skip and move on.

There is also a lot of bitter veteran players who sabotaged their own favorite game by playing 800-1500 HOURS and then when they've finally had their fill of this great game they decided to leave a negative review.

The grind isn't bad at all, its the newbie experience is too hard. On my second day I had 200,000 gold with an income of 60k a day just from crafting Hemp and fir logs into Rig repairs then selling them to players/npcs. Newbies don't realize that production is not crafting, its a near passive income. They also struggle to get that first 50,000 they need to construct buildings and produce their first materials to sell.

One dude in my clan had over 2 million gold by his 14th day of playing by doing one very simple thing...5 iron mines, he would use all his labor hours on getting iron then he would wait for a good price to sell all that iron in bulk in a day. The only work required is the movement of cargo.

Money is easy, XP is a little annoying.

[Bart Smith]

As many think to just lower production costs of the ships to 5th rate and effect will be same...but please no capture fests again. OR allow capture them but only for parts or sale (as a money reward). Whole fleets feature should be removed - but that different story - if you want fleet ask your mates to sail with you.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bart Smith

[Grundal]

As mentioned above.  Ship buy contracts are required.

magoo

[Slamz]

14 hours ago, Souvlaki said:

I assume the problem they are trying to correct is that ships are too expensive or not available for newer players.

Yeah NPC prices are still out of line with player prices, due to the cost to make a ship.

So according to my handy guild spreadsheet, this is the value for a fir/teak Frigate:

Total click cost: 89,396
Labor cost @ 20 gold per labor hour: 37,564
Total hauling cost: 80,370

We used to just set the value @ 100 per labor hour but you know 1000 labor worth of iron which spawns right in FR is not really the same value as 1000 labor hours worth of coal which has to be hauled in (or gold, which has to be hauled in from far away), so we have a sort of hand-wavy calculation that gives more value to things that are more of a pain to haul in.

Total cost: 207,330. (Alternative, we could say 100 per labor hour and skip the hauling idea and it's 277,216).

That's like the "break even" price that pays you for your labor and hauling time and is not meant to make anyone rich.

Mark it up a little bit for a good profit and everyone thinks you're ripping them off. But I'm not sure it's worth my time to do it for less than that, when there are other money-fountains in the game I could be using instead of ship buyers.

It might be interesting to:

Half the click-cost of all items.
Half the cost of all special woods.
Double the production rate of all buildings.
Double the carrying capacity of all cargo ships.

That would take a right big chunk out of all aspects of ship production: cost, labor and hauling. (Well, hauling would be the same but you could spend half as much time getting what you get now.)

[Benass]

Game should be  Easy to get into Hard to Master. 

 

Game economy should be   nearly  free for starting ships  to a imposible to support for top rates. with a Sort of well balanced graph..   

 

Something like this 5% 10% 15% 17% 20% 23% 27% 40%60%90%150%

 

Dead cheap at low lvl tiers to nearly impossible at top level. 

 

This formula works for so many games in past 20 years. Why cant naval action adopt it. 

 

 

[Hodo]

59 minutes ago, Benass said:

Game should be  Easy to get into Hard to Master. 

 

Game economy should be   nearly  free for starting ships  to a imposible to support for top rates. with a Sort of well balanced graph..   

 

Something like this 5% 10% 15% 17% 20% 23% 27% 40%60%90%150%

 

Dead cheap at low lvl tiers to nearly impossible at top level. 

 

This formula works for so many games in past 20 years. Why cant naval action adopt it. 

 

 

The problem is most of those games that use that matrix are all themepark games.  EvE doesnt use anything like that.  But their system is built on YEARS of work.    I love EvE because I can take long breaks from the game come back and while a lot has changed, the core game has not.   

Naval Action should strive to be like that.  Where a common ship Cruisers and Battlecruisers level of ship in EvE, should be some work to get, but not impossible.   In this game that would be akin to a 4th rate or a heavy 5th rate.    Instead we are kind of stuck with the current, go big or go home setup.   I mean when was the last time you saw vets sail and fight in anything other than a 5th rate or bigger?    Outside of shallow water you dont.  And even then you still see people get these massive ships in to the edge of the territory to grind or attack.

 

No one wants to sail the small ships because they feel they are not cool.  But in many ways I found the 6th and 7th rate ships more fun to fight in and fight against.  You actually need to know how to handle your ship in those fights.  

Bringing back this ship capture system is just going to push the ship sizes up to as big as you can cap off of an AI.   Which if you are good you can take a 5th rate pretty easily in a Cutter.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The problem is most of those games that use that matrix are all themepark games.  EvE doesnt use anything like that.  But their system is built on YEARS of work.    I love EvE because I can take long breaks from the game come back and while a lot has changed, the core game has not.   

Naval Action should strive to be like that.  Where a common ship Cruisers and Battlecruisers level of ship in EvE, should be some work to get, but not impossible.   In this game that would be akin to a 4th rate or a heavy 5th rate.    Instead we are kind of stuck with the current, go big or go home setup.   I mean when was the last time you saw vets sail and fight in anything other than a 5th rate or bigger?    Outside of shallow water you dont.  And even then you still see people get these massive ships in to the edge of the territory to grind or attack.

 

No one wants to sail the small ships because they feel they are not cool.  But in many ways I found the 6th and 7th rate ships more fun to fight in and fight against.  You actually need to know how to handle your ship in those fights.  

Bringing back this ship capture system is just going to push the ship sizes up to as big as you can cap off of an AI.   Which if you are good you can take a 5th rate pretty easily in a Cutter.  

The Snow is godly as a tagger and can kill larger ships. It can also outrun every other ship in the game at 180. It beats surprises in an upwind race too. 

[Hodo]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd be in a Rattler until I die if they put them back in the game. That's honestly the only reason I'm excited for ship capture.

They even removed it from NPC ships lately.  So you wont be able to capture it.  

[Wigermo]

No ships requiring marks should be captureable. Or remove permits for connie/trinc

[shaeberle84]

40 minutes ago, Wigermo said:

No ships requiring marks should be captureable. Or remove permits for connie/trinc

Or make npc ship capture cost marks. ;-)

[mikawa]

oh we could need a perk for this -- npc capturing perk -- cost 5 points so everybody should decide careful whether he needs it or not.

[Chuliki]

5 minutes ago, mikawa said:

oh we could need a perk for this -- npc capturing perk -- cost 5 points so everybody should decide careful whether he needs it or not.

that's cool, maybe one guy of the clan could take it so he could capture ships for the rest of the clan or smth, I like that idea

[Skully]

It is done.

We don't have to run back empty traders to outposts anymore. 

[z4ys]

Bye bye thrill to get captured ships back into the port. Now i can just sink them.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yes.

[Anne Wildcat]

You need the fleet perk to add a captured ship to your fleet. If you don't have the fleet perk, you can still capture the ship but you will have to sink your ship, I believe. I may be wrong, haven't played yet today to see

[Quineloe]

On 7/27/2017 at 5:44 PM, Peter Goldman said:

Economy in POTBS was ruined after they added capturing ships, are we making same mistakes?

huh, when did they add that? When the game was already a shambling corpse under Portalus games?

[Slim McSauce]

anyone test this? Whats the penalty on captured AI ships?