Speed Meta and today's Hotfix

[Liq]

So in todays Hotfix, most speed mods have been nerfed quite badly, to 1-2% buff each and with severe downsides. Now, this might look good at first glance, but when you look at it closely, you'll find that it didn't help much after all.

In the end, medium - big groups will still stack as many speed upgrades as possible to get as close to the maximum speed as possible, and then only engage a smaller force, which they know they'll win against anyway. I'll let you decide whether or not this is good gameplay. To me it isn't.

Before the Wipe we only ever had two Speed Upgrades - Copper plating (3% Speed Buff in the end iirc) and Speed Trim (5%? but also -10% HP) - pretty much everyone had Copper Plating on his ship, as it was easily accessable (craftable). Speed Trim seemed to be used pretty rarely, as the 10% HP tradeoff was quite big. 
We never had the issues of a Speed-Meta in the extent of now (or yesterday), simply because we only had one or two speed mods available. Now there are plenty (Copper Plating, Gazelle, Crooked Hull, Bovenwind, Art of Proper Cargo Distrubition, ...)
This allows a much bigger range of ships to reach a speed they would have never been able to before patch.

Suggestion:
Can't we just get rid off any additional Speed Modules except Copper Plating (and maybe Speed Trim with the -10% HP penalty)? Gameplay seemed much healthier before the wipe. Now we have imaginary Figureheads, refits, skillboks, etc.., not really needed IMO

Copper Plating would have to be made more accessable then obviously, rather than having it drop in pve missions only with a very low droprate.

Opinions?

Edited July 21, 2017 by Liquicity

[Bart Smith]

Posted this few time already - stop stacking same category modules. Only one in certain category allowed.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Bart Smith

[Prater]

I personally like optimized ballast as a skill, but the others don't really make sense, except maybe art of proper cargo distribution, but that wouldn't be for warships but merchants.  I think copper plating should be more available.  Make it craftable again.  I like that there are multiple modules, skills, etc, it adds customization.  I don't know if we should remove them or not.  I see your point and I've held that point in the past, but I've come to like having to balance wood, skills, modules, guns, and hold weight to get the speeds I want.

As to whether today's changes are good or bad, I'd have to play a bit to know first.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Prater

[Iroquois Confederacy]

Testing... testing...  Too soon to tell.  I'm unable to commit one way or another.  I think the creative Captain can really wreck havoc while people figure out new ways to build.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

My builds of choice will remain the same. The versatility has always been my choice. The OW holds too many unknowns to rely simply on speed alone.

[jodgi]

31 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Opinions?

I only ever had one: As few and as small speedmods as possible, pls.

Keep staysails and studding sails then throw everything else in the bin.

"But what are the power grinders gonna work towards then?!"

[Slim McSauce]

My biggest favor to it is that there will no longer be a instance where 2 similar profile ships will be at a dead even, max speed chase in OW.

Fir/fir connies with mods are no longer untouchable. Ships that were meant to be light and fast will no longer be slower/same speed as bigger, more armed ships

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[deltonos]

With latest patch about speed... I´m really lost: from turtle race to Naval F1 ... totally insane, please, revert speeds to before the wipe.

[z4ys]

to be honest nothing has changed. We are just all the same way slower as before and we need more sailing crew thats all. now the meta isnt 15kn it is 14kn.

A change would be to allow just 1 speed mod or to ditch them all and make crafting count more.

[jodgi]

15 minutes ago, deltonos said:

totally insane

 

Quote

total bonuses from speed upgrades and wood types won't exceed 22-23% (previously 45% which was too much)

Where do you draw the line between sane and insane? 17%? 18%?...

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

A change would be to allow just 1 speed mod or to ditch them all and make crafting count more.

Bless you!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

Where do you draw the line between sane and insane?

Captains of old did it by wind strength.

Nevermind, they still do it today

[Lonar]

It helped we no longer are able to build lineships with 15kn sail away from everything for example there are a lot ships that have it hard to get to 15kn wich is good since the most boring part was the hunt each other for 1h in battle bullshit without anyone faster. That everyone goes for the fastest ship is not new that was also prewipe that way.

But if you really get rid of the upgrades maybe give cooper plating more again and keep the books.

Or is this one of the my speedbuild now needs more then one mod to get to 15kn now i need to buy/grind one more hidden complainthreads? Because i have the feeling that here in the forum a special group of player is very active to lobby for their playstyle wich do not always make the game better.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Lonar

[Slamz]

I tentatively approve of this new system.

I think what it will boil down to is that you will want 1 permanent speed mod and 1-2 skill books and since there are so many, it doesn't matter so much which 1-2 you find first. You no longer need them all. Same for speed slots. You no longer need copper plating AND Bovenwinds AND crooked hull. Whichever 1 speed mod you can access the easiest will probably be fine. Maybe go crazy and use 2 mods but it quickly becomes questionable if another 1-2% is worth not getting that extra turn speed or armor thickness or what-have-you.

We just need the choices to be interesting.

Limiting it to 1-2 mods that everyone has to run is not interesting.

 

[deltonos]

50 minutes ago, jodgi said:

 

Where do you draw the line between sane and insane? 17%? 18%?...

Reading other posts, insanity is all ships with "great"  cap speed ... hunters and victims sailing all at same speed , with multiple hull and rig repairs ... 90 minutes of pseudo battle for nothing. I think, speed and repairs options must be reverted IMO.

[LuckyJack]

2 hours ago, Liquicity said:

So in todays Hotfix, most speed mods have been nerfed quite badly, to 1-2% buff each and with severe downsides. Now, this might look good at first glance, but when you look at it closely, you'll find that it didn't help much after all.

In the end, medium - big groups will still stack as many speed upgrades as possible to get as close to the maximum speed as possible, and then only engage a smaller force, which they know they'll win against anyway. I'll let you decide whether or not this is good gameplay. To me it isn't.

Before the Wipe we only ever had two Speed Upgrades - Copper plating (3% Speed Buff in the end iirc) and Speed Trim (5%? but also -10% HP) - pretty much everyone had Copper Plating on his ship, as it was easily accessable (craftable). Speed Trim seemed to be used pretty rarely, as the 10% HP tradeoff was quite big. 
We never had the issues of a Speed-Meta in the extent of now (or yesterday), simply because we only had one or two speed mods available. Now there are plenty (Copper Plating, Gazelle, Crooked Hull, Bovenwind, Art of Proper Cargo Distrubition, ...)
This allows a much bigger range of ships to reach a speed they would have never been able to before patch.

Suggestion:
Can't we just get rid off any additional Speed Modules except Copper Plating (and maybe Speed Trim with the -10% HP penalty)? Gameplay seemed much healthier before the wipe. Now we have imaginary Figureheads, refits, skillboks, etc.., not really needed IMO

Copper Plating would have to be made more accessable then obviously, rather than having it drop in pve missions only with a very low droprate.

Opinions?

Totally agree just take out all the speed mods except for copper plating and maybe speed trim. Have copper plating craftable again. Let the copper plating be 3-5% again and speed trim 3-5% but with the 10% less sail HP. 

Devs please  quit overreacting the fix is simple. Lay off the vodka....or share it.

Edited July 21, 2017 by LuckyJack
3-55% was a typo although it be a funny one.

[jodgi]

14 minutes ago, deltonos said:

with multiple hull and rig repairs

I don't like that either.

14 minutes ago, deltonos said:

hunters and victims sailing all at same speed

They're working on fixing that.

[Vllad]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

to be honest nothing has changed. We are just all the same way slower as before and we need more sailing crew thats all. now the meta isnt 15kn it is 14kn.

This is my take as well. Absolutely nothing changed except everyone got slower all relatively the same.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

 

Where do you draw the line between sane and insane? 17%? 18%?...

Who is to judge what is sane, when the insane number the sane, so does that make us sane?

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, Vllad said:

This is my take as well. Absolutely nothing changed except everyone got slower all relatively the same.

Keep in mind that if ships generally don't hit the brickwall limiter of 15knots the shape of their speedmodded profiles stay truer to the original base profile.

With crazy effective and stacking speedmods a JATO surprise's profile could look like this:

instead of the intended:

[Vllad]

Good point Jodgi but it is still all relative. Every complete speed mod rig will still have a bastardized sailing profile.

I guess the only thing I see here is the slowest non speed rig is just less slow compared to everyone else than it was before.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Vllad

[Nelsons Barrel]

OP has a point.

[Prater]

6 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Good point Jodgi but it is still all relative. Every complete speed mod rig will still have a bastardized sailing profile.

I guess the only thing I see here is the slowest non speed rig is just less slow compared to everyone else than it was before.

 

Speed mods don't change the sailing profile.  Having a cap that everyone easily hits does change the sailing profile.  When my Lynx goes 17 knots at my best point but it is capped to 15 knots, it still changes the rest of my sailing profile and makes my weaker points faster.  So instead of having a normal profile with strong and weak points, I have strong, strong, strong, and so so points.  Before my Lynx could catch square riggers and any point between 30 and 90 was 15 knots.  Now (once I log on and check of course), I'm pretty sure my Lynx is back to the Lynx sailing profile with 45, 90 being the strong points that I might be able to hit 15 knots on.  No more speed sail damage cushion either.  I won't be going 15 knots at 95% sails anymore.

[CaptVonGunn]

Just dump the Figure heads ALL together.. They are Magic... Make the Negatives for the Mods something that makes you think about using it... Limit use per ship to 1 Speed Mod and 1 Speed Skill...  I have said before Ships are just to fast... SOLs(maybe a well sailed and crewed 3rd Rate but not 2nd and 1st rates for sure..) should Never be able to run down a Frigate

    Smaller fast Frigates should also really not like the idea for engaging the Bigger ships..  Frigates are supposed to hunt other frigates and traders and scout for the SOLs..  Brigs are supposed to Hunt Brigs and Traders and scout and run away from Big ships if they can...

[Hodo]

6 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Just dump the Figure heads ALL together.. They are Magic... Make the Negatives for the Mods something that makes you think about using it... Limit use per ship to 1 Speed Mod and 1 Speed Skill...  I have said before Ships are just to fast... SOLs(maybe a well sailed and crewed 3rd Rate but not 2nd and 1st rates for sure..) should Never be able to run down a Frigate

    Smaller fast Frigates should also really not like the idea for engaging the Bigger ships..  Frigates are supposed to hunt other frigates and traders and scout for the SOLs..  Brigs are supposed to Hunt Brigs and Traders and scout and run away from Big ships if they can...

Dump figure heads.

Make copper plating craftable again.

Everything else is gravy.